Golf cart etiquette

[Dr. Strangeclub]

Originally Posted by phillyk

In general for golf carts, it's better to drive them in the rough or cart path rather than fairway, because when too many carts drive on the fairway, it can kill the grass.  Since its harder and more money to keep the fairway nice, its better to stay off with driving carts as much as possible.

Killing the grass is the least of the problems.  Over time, the movement of the carts over the terrain creates ripples in the fairway, like the bottom of a stream bed, growing insidiously deeper and larger with each passing cart.  Even if the fairways aren't muddy, when they are soft the carts deform the surface ever so slightly and gradually make something akin to small waves, which over the years grow into larger waves.  40 years ago, before there were any carts in this area, the fairways were smooth.  Every course in the area is like riding a choppy sea now, each and every one with at least one deep ravine.  The carts have simply destroyed them.

I am nulli secundis in my hatred of golf carts.  If you don't have a handicapped sticker on your car, you shouldn't even be in one.  If the distances are too far between tee and green, the course should be redesigned or closed.

Bring back the caddies!

[saevel25]

Just depends on the course. i have been on courses were its cart path only, cart path and fairways only, no drivig in the rough at all.

My personal opinion, golf carts should come with in 10 yards of a tee box, or 50 yards of the green except for cart paths, period. I hate when people drive near greens or right on the lip of bunkers, or through tee boxes, its idiotic.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangeclub

Killing the grass is the least of the problems.  Over time, the movement of the carts over the terrain creates ripples in the fairway, like the bottom of a stream bed, growing insidiously deeper and larger with each passing cart.  Even if the fairways aren't muddy, when they are soft the carts deform the surface ever so slightly and gradually make something akin to small waves, which over the years grow into larger waves.  40 years ago, before there were any carts in this area, the fairways were smooth.  Every course in the area is like riding a choppy sea now, each and every one with at least one deep ravine.  The carts have simply destroyed them.

I am nulli secundis in my hatred of golf carts.  If you don't have a handicapped sticker on your car, you shouldn't even be in one.  If the distances are too far between tee and green, the course should be redesigned or closed.

Bring back the caddies!

This is just crazy, or it's colored by your prejudice.  I've played for 40 years too, and I've never seen what you describe.  I walked as long as I was able to walk, and now I ride.  I've yet to see a fairway damaged in any way other than when it's over watered and it's become a bog.  Then even a walker would leave footprints in it.  I've certainly never seen the sort of permanent damage to the substrate that you profess to have witnessed, And I've played a lot of courses around the country over the years.  A well maintained course will never develop the sort of ruts you describe.

Oh, and that crack about handicapped plates - There are thousands of people who are capable of walking 200 yards in a parking lot, but they can't walk 4½ miles or more to play golf.  Or who even want to try.  I could still walk maybe a mile or so once my knee heals up from the arthroscopy I had a month ago, but in any event that only gets me halfway around the front 9.  Then I face the issue of the other 13 holes.  All your statement does is demonstrate the snobbiness that I see so often online with hard core walkers, yet almost never witness on the golf course.  Go figure...

[GJBenn85]

Originally Posted by Jay-Bird

Because it's a Par 3.

If you cannot walk from the cart path to play your second shot - on a par 3 - you should NOT be playing golf. You should be laying off the chips, burgers, beer, television, chips, burritos, burgers, ice cream, fries, pizza, burgers, soft drinks, chips and beer.

Hmm...you've always been a 4 handicap and thus never had a bad shot on a par 3?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangeclub

The carts have simply destroyed them.

I am nulli secundis in my hatred of golf carts.  If you don't have a handicapped sticker on your car, you shouldn't even be in one.  If the distances are too far between tee and green, the course should be redesigned or closed.

Yeah. Guess they shouldn't use the heavy mowers on them either.

I'm 33, in pretty darn good health, and I ride virtually every round I play now. I don't "prefer" it, but it's simply "the way it is." I'm not paying extra for the carts, it lets me talk to my buddies, and it gets me around faster than I can walking.

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by iacas

I'm 33, in pretty darn good health, and I ride virtually every round I play now. I don't "prefer" it, but it's simply "the way it is." I'm not paying extra for the carts, it lets me talk to my buddies, and it gets me around faster than I can walking.

I ride virtually every time I golf too - unless I feel that I can physically walk 18.

I am only 24, 160lbs and athletic, but have bad sciatica, and a ruined left knee from skateboarding my entire life

The whole smugness of walkers who think people in carts are 'doing it wrong' never ceases to amaze me.  I don't see the direct influence it has on walkers and can't see the reasoning they have for all the hate.

I don;t know what courses Dr. Strange plays -but I have never, ever, seen any of the issues he has seen as a result from carts? Maybe he should play another course

[1par2win]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangeclub

Killing the grass is the least of the problems.  Over time, the movement of the carts over the terrain creates ripples in the fairway, like the bottom of a stream bed, growing insidiously deeper and larger with each passing cart.  Even if the fairways aren't muddy, when they are soft the carts deform the surface ever so slightly and gradually make something akin to small waves, which over the years grow into larger waves.  40 years ago, before there were any carts in this area, the fairways were smooth.  Every course in the area is like riding a choppy sea now, each and every one with at least one deep ravine.  The carts have simply destroyed them.

I am nulli secundis in my hatred of golf carts.  If you don't have a handicapped sticker on your car, you shouldn't even be in one.  If the distances are too far between tee and green, the course should be redesigned or closed.

Bring back the caddies!

I know this post was ripped pretty good but I'll agree with the "Bring back the caddies!" comment. I wish public courses would allow it. I would pay the cart fee to the course and not take a cart in order to be able to have my son or a friend caddy. Seems like a win-win but whenever I bring this up to a club mgr or owner I get a blank stare followed by "we don't allow caddies." I just don't get it.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by 1par2win

I know this post was ripped pretty good but I'll agree with the "Bring back the caddies!" comment. I wish public courses would allow it. I would pay the cart fee to the course and not take a cart in order to be able to have my son or a friend caddy. Seems like a win-win but whenever I bring this up to a club mgr or owner I get a blank stare followed by "we don't allow caddies." I just don't get it.

I've never heard of caddies not being allowed, unless the course has a carts only policy.  I've never played a course which offered a caddie option, but I've never played one where walking was allowed which would refuse to let the golfer bring his own caddie.

[ejimsmith]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I've never heard of caddies not being allowed, unless the course has a carts only policy.  I've never played a course which offered a caddie option, but I've never played one where walking was allowed which would refuse to let the golfer bring his own caddie.

some courses have a "no spectators" policy.  i'm not sure that includes a caddie though.   i've seen websites that offer caddies that will meet you at any course to play with you.  most are girls, for the obvious added value.

[iacas]

The problem with caddies is that they used to be somewhat cost effective. These days they run $50... and will often be double-bagging it, so you're paying $50 for little more than half a caddie.

But this thread isn't about caddies. Someone should start one or revive an existing one, though.

[Dr. Strangeclub]

Those of you who don't see the ripple effect on the fairways probably don't play the sort of sod that's in this area.  On the hardpan of Dallas, I doubt this would come up, but around here it's omnipresent.  Perhaps you need a college course in geology to become aware of what you are looking at.  It takes a long time, so you would also have to be aware of what the fairways were like 40 years ago to make a comparison.  Many of the courses the rest of you play possibly aren't even that old -- or you yourselves!  In any case, whether it be region specific or not,  it's the carts that are causing what I see in the fairways in this region.

The rejoinder about the heavy equipment doesn't quite wash, I don't think, as good as it looks on the surface (no pun intended).  The wheels of a tractor are much larger (and might even serve to level the ground), while the gang mowers distribute their weight over many wheels designed to move with the terrain.  They don't shove the soil wave up in the same manner, nor do the mowers bounce along the fairway like a cart, if driven at an effective speed for mowing.

As for walking, "handicapped sticker" is a bit strong, and I would agree that those with a genuine medical difficulty making it around the golf course should ride.  I have no problem with that.  I do have a problem with 18 year old kids in the pink of health driving golf carts.  There WERE no golf carts for rent until I was well into my thirties, so I have little patience with them.  As for caddies, they tip the bagboy $50 for carrying their clubs from the trunk to the cart at the reservation courses down the road.  The people who play there could spend $100 on a caddy and not blink an eye -- and I think they do sometimes! -- but it's not in the culture any more, they'd rather ride.  Is $50 for a caddy more than the cart?  Only another $25 or so.   Not everybody could afford a caddy 50 years ago, either, I for one, but I think there are MANY golfers who could easily pop down $50 for a caddy, especially since that is cheaper than a caddy would have been in 1960 in constant dollars, when a caddy might run you $10 or so for 18;  even $7 works out to over $50.  Trying to equate the idea that ALL the golfers now riding should be able to loll around the course without carrying or rolling their own clubs is an argument that disturbs me, summoning up thoughts about the collapse of civilization itself.   Add in the fact that carts are subsidized by higher green fees for the walkers, in the sense that courses almost invariably offer a combo green fees/cart that is less than the price of either individually.  Why should you get cheaper greens fees just because you're too lazy to walk?  Cart riders should pay a full greens fees, at least.

Using myself as an example, I have serious asthma and COPD from 55 years of cigarette smoking.  (Yes, schadenfreude is wonderful, isn't it?)  I am 68 years old, and no, I don't smoke cigarettes any more.   I have a hard time making it around a golf course most of the time, but I do it because I love the game and walking is part of the deal.  Some days, when the pollen is heavy and it would be impossible to make it, I will take a cart, true enough, but I've already said that if you have a medical problem, then fine, ride.  It's only because someone is counting on me to play those days though -- if it's just me, I generally just don't play those days.

But back to question -- I don't think the carts should be allowed on the fairways at all, at any time, good weather or bad. And my hatred of golf carts goes far, far beyond the damage to the fairways.

[Spyder]

Personally, I just never see the need to take the cart on the fairway of a Par 3. Anything other than a Par 3, who cares as long as weather permits it. On a Par 3 though, we are usually on/near the green, so taking the cart from the tee to the path near the hole where we will be walking off is just instinct. I mean if you make a mistake on a Par 3 where you accidentally top it or hit it far left or right, walking to the ball would be your best bet. Take the extra minute to think about what happened on that shot. When you reach your ball, let go of all of the thoughts that you just processed and start over!

Off topic, the thing I hate the most is when I see golfers actually park the damn cart right near the fringe of the green. That just lacks common sense to me. That should not fall into etiquette, but serious lack of common sense. The fringe is cut to a specific length... laying it down with the tires of the cart and promoting a shift in the contour of the lie, while compacting the dirt is pretty dumb. Sorry - we saw that last weekend and it really just left me speechless. They probably park their car on their lawn so that their car door is aligned with the front door to their house too.

[kurisu]

Originally Posted by iacas

it gets me around faster than I can walking.

I can vouch for that! Erik's a fine go(lf) cart driver!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangeclub

Those of you who don't see the ripple effect on the fairways probably don't play the sort of sod that's in this area.  On the hardpan of Dallas, I doubt this would come up, but around here it's omnipresent.  Perhaps you need a college course in geology to become aware of what you are looking at.  It takes a long time, so you would also have to be aware of what the fairways were like 40 years ago to make a comparison.  Many of the courses the rest of you play possibly aren't even that old -- or you yourselves!  In any case, whether it be region specific or not,  it's the carts that are causing what I see in the fairways in this region.

I asked my superintendent friends. They have no idea what you're talking about. They tend to courses built in the 1950s.

[Dr. Strangeclub]

Originally Posted by iacas

I asked my superintendent friends. They have no idea what you're talking about. They tend to courses built in the 1950s.

Several things occur to me:  The damage was done before they started tending these courses, so they see no change.  They don't let carts on the fairways when they are soft or when it's raining (they do around here), so there is no such damage.  The players, being from Pennsylvania as opposed to New York, actually ride the carts in the rough when told to do so.  The turf is harder and doesn't deform as much.  They have cart paths that people actually use.  They do periodic maintenance on the fairways, like they do on the nice courses around here. (Teugega, a private course a couple of miles from here does not have this problem, for example.)

Hard to say.  For some reason, I'm reminded of a picture of a globular cluster in Feinman's Lectures , with the caption, "Anyone who cannot see gravity at work in this photograph has no soul."

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangeclub

Several things occur to me:  The damage was done before they started tending these courses, so they see no change. They don't let carts on the fairways when they are soft or when it's raining (they do around here), so there is no such damage.

Nope. There's simply no such damage . And one of them has been the super for 35 years. All of them let carts out any time they won't make big ruts or risk getting stuck. And we have a lot of clay - the ground stays soft here for quite awhile after rains. Members would mutiny if they couldn't take carts out or were confined to cart paths only.

I've seen these "waves" on courses before - I know what you're talking about. In my experience, these waves are not only rare, they're not caused by carts. I've seen them at the end of a cart path where it lets out into grass and I've seen them in the rough where virtually nobody drives anything. Carts aren't the cause.

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangeclub

Hard to say.  For some reason, I'm reminded of a picture of a globular cluster in Feinman's Lectures , with the caption, "Anyone who cannot see gravity at work in this photograph has no soul."

Try this on for size: you're most likely wrong about the cause of the "waves."

[Chief Broom]

I'd always assumed that the reason behind par 3's being cart path only is because of the reduced amount of area betwen the tees and green.  This means that cart traffic isn't able to adequately scatter as it does on par 4's and 5's, so on 3's the traffic will have a greater impact on the truf grass.  The simple way to make sure this isn't a problem is to keep 3's as cart path only.  Also since the fairway is so much smaller being path only doesn't put any undue burden on players having to keep their carts on the path.

[ghalfaire]

I play a lot of different courses over a year's time and some permit yo to drive on Par 3 fairways and some don't.  The only time I ask why you can't at a course that forbids driving on Par 3 fairway I got the following answer.  Because there isn't any fairway (that was true unless you think 2" grass is just a fuzzy fairway) and we don't want to ruin grass with cart traffic. You could get a "medical" flag for the cart if you were not physical able to walk that far.  On some of the mountain courses the reason is obvious, the slope is such it would be dangerous to get off the cart path between tee and green.