The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[nevets88]

@Lihu , it's kind of OT to discuss "TST Dan Plan" or whatever you're doing. He's doing his plan. This thread is to discuss that. He's not working with us… so why are we talking about it? I do think he went about this the wrong way, and I too wish he would have talked more about how he was learning, what he was working on, etc.

I've been reading about him in other forums and I'm disappointed none of them touched on this. Instead some of them devolved into an endless cycle of confusion over the 10k hypothesis. It's pretty clearly written in his blog the deliberate practice angle but it's like most people just read over it and just hijacked it as a vicarious golf thing.

[Pretzel]

Does his site have any way to submit feedback of some sort? If so, with enough of us asking, it may be possible to get a little more information on what he's doing.

[mchepp]

It seems like Dan and my son have very similar builds and skills. My son makes more fairways and greens than the average 10 handicap, but his putting skills are pretty bad. Consider, though that my son practices 8 hours a week except during school practice which was 3 hours every other day. In his whole life, he probably spent less than 1000 hours playing and practicing golf. Neither of us considers him an exceptional playe, but I'm pretty sure he can consistently shoot in the high 80s on a 72/135 rated course, because he does. He only got one 51 on 9 holes in the entire year. Most of the time he shoots in the low 40s on 9, and low 80s on 18. Unless, the course is easy.

The problem I see with comparing him to someone like your son is now age plays a role in equation. I feel learning a skill at a very young age is very different than learning it at a later age.

I contended that he should have started learning the skill like a language. One must immerse themselves at a young age. I have not seen any discussion on how age plays into these 10,000 hours. Watching my daughter learn 2 languages growing up she picks up words very easily, I still have not learned many more than a few words of my wife's language. We have been immersed at a similar level. She is fluent. Age must play a role in this discussion.

[BerkeleyRehab]

Dan is a fool.

He put himself in this position by bringing up being on the PGA Tour with no idea what that even meant.

He only posts good stuff.

He is probably a 13-handicap.

Why anyone has given him free stuff and donated is beyond me, but go ahead and support a golf bum.

I am more impressed with people who have jobs and get really good. And there are a lot of him.

I guess it shows that marketing is what matters...to a point.  At some point, you do need to show the goods, and he sure doesn't have it.

I bet you he hates golf too.

[Lihu]

Dan is a fool.

He put himself in this position by bringing up being on the PGA Tour with no idea what that even meant.

He only posts good stuff.

He is probably a 13-handicap.

Why anyone has given him free stuff and donated is beyond me, but go ahead and support a golf bum.

I am more impressed with people who have jobs and get really good. And there are a lot of him.

I guess it shows that marketing is what matters...to a point.  At some point, you do need to show the goods, and he sure doesn't have it.

I bet you he hates golf too.

Welcome to TST. I'm sure you have plenty of things to contribute to this site.

Thanks for joining us in this discussion, and I hope to hear more from you regarding other topics as well.

[Todd Ruggere]

I really believe each person has a threshold of how good they can be unless you are working with Butch Harmon or something. Whether i play every day or once a week i know in the middle of July my handicap will always be around a 4.

Dan is a fool.

He put himself in this position by bringing up being on the PGA Tour with no idea what that even meant.

He only posts good stuff.

He is probably a 13-handicap.

Why anyone has given him free stuff and donated is beyond me, but go ahead and support a golf bum.

I am more impressed with people who have jobs and get really good. And there are a lot of him.

I guess it shows that marketing is what matters...to a point.  At some point, you do need to show the goods, and he sure doesn't have it.

I bet you he hates golf too.

I really think you are close with the 13 handicap! I think its laughable when people say "He's probably more like a 6" . I don't think there is anyway he's a 6. Probably a 10 which is incredible since he only picked up a club a couple years ago.

[MS256]

I really believe each person has a threshold of how good they can be unless you are working with Butch Harmon or something. Whether i play every day or once a week i know in the middle of July my handicap will always be around a 4.

I really think you are close with the 13 handicap! I think its laughable when people say "He's probably more like a 6" . I don't think there is anyway he's a 6. Probably a 10 which is incredible since he only picked up a club a couple years ago.

Neither Butch Harmon, nor anybody else, can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Might be able to smooth it up a little but that's it. If they had that kind of magic all of their kids would be on Tour.

[nevets88]

I have a feeling there are many Dan Plans out there that could have taught us more than this one, they're just too busy with their daily lives - work and family.

[BerkeleyRehab]

I really believe each person has a threshold of how good they can be unless you are working with Butch Harmon or something. Whether i play every day or once a week i know in the middle of July my handicap will always be around a 4.

I really think you are close with the 13 handicap! I think its laughable when people say "He's probably more like a 6" . I don't think there is anyway he's a 6. Probably a 10 which is incredible since he only picked up a club a couple years ago.

The least he could do is update the stats and scores.  I thought that was part of the 'whole journey' crap.

As someone said, he had to go the PGA Tour route as part of his gimmick.  10,000 to scratch golfer doesn't have the same ring.  Especially for non-golfers that really don't know what scratch means.

And did I read that he cannot even afford tournament fees?  Is that what the donate button is for on the website?

Seems like this plan wasn't thought through very well.

[Big C]

I really believe each person has a threshold of how good they can be unless you are working with Butch Harmon or something. Whether i play every day or once a week i know in the middle of July my handicap will always be around a 4.

I really think you are close with the 13 handicap! I think its laughable when people say "He's probably more like a 6" . I don't think there is anyway he's a 6. Probably a 10 which is incredible since he only picked up a club a couple years ago.

Disagree. I would peg Dan as a legitimate 6 or better. If you believe that he is being honest when he says he shot under par once (and for all his faults, I don't think he is lying when he reports actual details from his rounds), then there is no way he is worse than a mid-single digit capper. Shooting at or under par simply doesn't happen if you a high single digit handicap, let alone a double digit.

That said, I absolutely believe that he performs a few strokes worse under the pressure cooker of tournament golf, which is the reason that I suggested he only post tournament rounds from this point forward.

[Lihu]

Disagree. I would peg Dan as a legitimate 6 or better. If you believe that he is being honest when he says he shot under par once (and for all his faults, I don't think he is lying when he reports actual details from his rounds), then there is no way he is worse than a mid-single digit capper. Shooting at or under par simply doesn't happen if you a high single digit handicap, let alone a double digit.

That said, I absolutely believe that he performs a few strokes worse under the pressure cooker of tournament golf, which is the reason that I suggested he only post tournament rounds from this point forward.

I have been thinking about that under par round, and keep thinking of the hypothesis that "A million monkeys can type out the complete works of Shakespeare in a million years".

As he plays this course so often, it is possible that he could get lucky one round and shoot that score. Of course, we are all just speculating about the details.

[GHIN0011458]

I have a feeling there are many Dan Plans out there that could have taught us more than this one, they're just too busy with their daily lives - work and family.

When I first found out about Dan, I thought "Damn, I wish I would have started this website" we have the same name and all so it would fit in perfect.. and I am too trying to be on a fast track to playing golf at a very high level.  Yesterday marked my sixth anniversary from the day I first touched a club, at age 20. Six years from that day I ended up shooting a 74 in a tournament round and made 5 birdies, 3 doubles, and one bogey. Only two people in the field beat my second round score yesterday. Anyways, I wish I could quit my job and do what Dan is doing.. I feel like I could really get somewhere with the game if I had the coaching, the time, the money etc. I have never had a lesson in my life but have thought about it numerous times. I actually am rooting for him, knowing if he can do it than so can I. At the same time though, I feel like it was a huge waste of resources on someone with not much talent for the game. At around 4000 hours, I have been able to get to scratch while Dan is hovering around a 10 after 5000 hours. I have two kids and a stay at home wife to support all while getting as much practice time in as possible. At the end of the day though, he made it happen and I didn't. The marketing has helped him get people to care about his progress, where as being just another guy I really couldn't see anyone caring less about another golf story after he has failed to come through to this point. He is living the dream life IMO.

[BerkeleyRehab]

He is living the dream life IMO.

Lol.

Can't even afford to play in tournaments.

What is so dreamy about quitting a job to play a game?

It might feel good at time, but he has zero cash and at some point he will have to find a job.

[GHIN0011458]

Lol.

Can't even afford to play in tournaments.

What is so dreamy about quitting a job to play a game?

It might feel good at time, but he has zero cash and at some point he will have to find a job.

Well quitting a job that you like to do something that you love would be worth it to me. I would happily take a 20k paycut to be able to play golf full time. Not give lessons and what not, just play. If he can afford a couple of days or practice, he can afford tournament rounds.. not sure why he says that. I would much rather PROFIT 50k on a mini tour than make 100k sitting in an office.

[BerkeleyRehab]

Well quitting a job that you like to do something that you love would be worth it to me. I would happily take a 20k paycut to be able to play golf full time. Not give lessons and what not, just play. If he can afford a couple of days or practice, he can afford tournament rounds.. not sure why he says that. I would much rather PROFIT 50k on a mini tour than make 100k sitting in an office.

You probably like golf so much because it is a fun thing you do AWAY from your job.  When it becomes your job, it might just be that...a job.

Mini-tour life seems miserable.

I think Dan doesn't even like golf.  He made this a chore.  Now he just has to go through the motions to get to 10,000 hours so he can start profiting of this.

I know serious golf-nuts and you can just feel how much they LOVE golf.  Dan doesn't.

[Big C]

I have been thinking about that under par round, and keep thinking of the hypothesis that "A million monkeys can type out the complete works of Shakespeare in a million years".

As he plays this course so often, it is possible that he could get lucky one round and shoot that score. Of course, we are all just speculating about the details.

Sure, statistically it's possible. To be exact, the USGA puts the odds of a 6-12 capper shooting 10 below his index at 1 in 84,000 or so. Then again, I've maintained a "legit" 7.0-10.0 for the past 3 years and have never shot better than 4 over par on a regulation course.

I guess my point is that I don't presume Dan's tournament history tells the whole tale of the tape. I've posted this before, but even when I was a legitimate 9, I put together a few mid 90's rounds in our men's club tournaments. That's about as low pressure as tourney golf can get, but at my level, tournament melt downs sadly are not that uncommon. It's taken me about 2 years to get to the point where I feel I can focus and actually play better under that pressure. My guess is that Dan is still learning how to deal with that.

[GHIN0011458]

You probably like golf so much because it is a fun thing you do AWAY from your job.  When it becomes your job, it might just be that...a job.

Mini-tour life seems miserable.

I think Dan doesn't even like golf.  He made this a chore.  Now he just has to go through the motions to get to 10,000 hours so he can start profiting of this.

I know serious golf-nuts and you can just feel how much they LOVE golf.  Dan doesn't.

No I know how it feels. I have played 5 events in 6 weeks and trust me I am completely burnt out. I didn't touch a club at all last week because of it before going into my tourney this weekend and the weekend before that was when it hit me. Shot 70 first day, then ran out of mental gas and couldn't close the deal so I know what it is all about.  Stress of money would make it harder for sure though. Ultimately, I see golf as my second job.. I work too hard and too much at it to see it as a "fun thing to do when I am away from my job". We have this love-hate thing going. I like golf so much because there is no BS in golf. I am short (5'7) and although I was able to play high school baseball, football, soccer, hockey.. when it came down to it coaches in general want a bigger guy. Politics in other sports play a huge part. Look at how they talk about an inch with Johnny Manziel. Anyways, it doesn't matter if you are fat, skinny, tall, short..whatever. The thing I love about golf is that no one can tell you how good you are or you are not except for the course. That is why it upsets me to see people say they are better then they are. The proof is in the pudding with golf. You shoot what you shoot. You want to make a college golf team? You could have one leg but if you can shoot 76-77 you will find a team. Every shot is all on you in golf. You control the game on every shot. That is what is great about golf. What Dan is doing is cool and fun to follow; fail or succeed. I agree with you that he is going through the motions to profit, but it is still cool to see him try. I think that Dan has the same amount of pressure to do good in a tournament as Tiger does to win another Major. Think about it, his whole life(last few years) is riding on these tournament rounds basically. You have all of your investors, your followers/fans, your skeptics. I think he is playing golf worrying about the total outcome of the round and not worrying about the process of each shot. I did the same thing when I first started tournaments and couldn't score. I think that people who only play one course are too one-sided and their handicap is never a true reflection of an actual handicap.

[BerkeleyRehab]

What Dan is doing is cool and fun to follow; fail or succeed. I agree with you that he is going through the motions to profit, but it is still cool to see him try. I think that Dan has the same amount of pressure to do good in a tournament as Tiger does to win another Major. Think about it, his whole life(last few years) is riding on these tournament rounds basically. You have all of your investors, your followers/fans, your skeptics. I think he is playing golf worrying about the total outcome of the round and not worrying about the process of each shot.

He is the one that put PGA Tour into a website.

He is the one that gave all those interviews on human potential.

He is the one that put a donate here begging sign on his website.

And just like you said so well in your post, all the interviews, marketing, and gimmicks don't cannot hide what is golf.  SCORE.

Unfortunately, now that he is starting to play in tournaments, it is apparent that he is very mediocre.  And I think he has the money, but doesn't want to play in tournaments, because it will expose him even more.  $75?  You have to be kidding me.  The only way to really get better is playing in more tournaments and he is avoiding that.