The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[nevets88]

I respectfully disagree that he doesn't have the physical makeup to be scratch. Imho, he looks strong enough. Imho, I think he has not been getting enough good info for an extended period of time. Like for 4+ years, ouch. If he doesn't get to scratch it's lack of coordination, athleticism, not a strength thing. And his followthrough, ouch, my back hurts just mentally visualizing it. I also wonder why there isn't a blog post on his site addressing Gladwell's article in the New Yorker, where Gladwell adds conditions to his opinion on the 10K hypotheses. If he gets a tv show, would you watch? Stream it? I dunno, but I probably wouldn't pay for it.

[MS256]

I never take this thread seriously, and have thought the 10,000 hour thing was utter nonsense from the first time I heard of it.

I do wonder how much competitive golf Dan plays. I'm not talking about the tournaments he enters occasionally but just something like a daily game at a club or something where everybody knows what he shot.

It would get him used to either beating people or going home broke. If you can't beat the guys at the club you definitely aren't going anywhere on a national level.

Somebody half-jokingly told me one time that if you can't beat a scramble of the best two players at the local club you have no chance to be a touring pro.

[flopster]

Proper mechanics increase your swing speed.

I was on the simulator at GG a week ago trying out hybrids...and one of my smoothest feeling swings hit 103 mph. Some of my swings that felt much faster were closer to 95-97 mph.

Proper technique will get you far, but unless you have a fast swing speed, you won't get a lot of distance off the tee. You need both.

I'll admit not knowing the formula but I'm sure someone swinging at 98mph with a efficient launch angle and smash factor can consistently outdrive someone swinging 105mph that is all over the clubface.

[Pretzel]

I never take this thread seriously, and have thought the 10,000 hour thing was utter nonsense from the first time I heard of it.

I do wonder how much competitive golf Dan plays. I'm not talking about the tournaments he enters occasionally but just something like a daily game at a club or something where everybody knows what he shot.

It would get him used to either beating people or going home broke. If you can't beat the guys at the club you definitely aren't going anywhere on a national level.

Somebody half-jokingly told me one time that if you can't beat a scramble of the best two players at the local club you have no chance to be a touring pro.

Money games are actually a great way to prepare for tournament pressure. My high school coach unofficially encouraged us to gamble with each other during practices and practice rounds. When you're on the 18th tee and you know there's a 5 hole carryover (with a press) on the line, it makes you behave as you would in a tournament!

[nevets88]

I'd bet he'd lose less money playing money games than he's paying for Vision 54 and associated expenses. I know I ain't taking no clinic that makes me take a stinkin' pledge. Big eyeroll.

[flopster]

Dan has been to see a few pros and bottom line is he doesn't want to follow the instruction, I mean for the last year he has the same swing flaw. He claims to be doing deliberate practice 6 days a week but just ends up "playing 18". For some crazy reason he seems to think his swing is good and he needs mental work, he obviously has never been to the range at a pga tournament.

Yes he does need to see what real ball striking looks like in person, however it may wind up discouraging the crap out of him. The one thing that I always found so amazing watching the worlds best players was just how steady they were over the ball and how every ounce of energy found it's way to impact position, Dan it seems to me doesn't swing the club within his control limits that are compromised by his technical flaws, his driver is the club that shows this the most.

[Slice of Life]

I'll admit not knowing the formula but I'm sure someone swinging at 98mph with a efficient launch angle and smash factor can consistently outdrive someone swinging 105mph that is all over the clubface.

Right, and the person swinging at 105 with an efficient launch angle and smash factor will outdrive both of them.

That was the point. :)

[flopster]

I never take this thread seriously, and have thought the 10,000 hour thing was utter nonsense from the first time I heard of it.

I do wonder how much competitive golf Dan plays. I'm not talking about the tournaments he enters occasionally but just something like a daily game at a club or something where everybody knows what he shot.

It would get him used to either beating people or going home broke. If you can't beat the guys at the club you definitely aren't going anywhere on a national level.

Somebody half-jokingly told me one time that if you can't beat a scramble of the best two players at the local club you have no chance to be a touring pro.

I agree, the vast majority of my posted rounds are under tournament like conditions meaning money on the line and yes it is invaluable to some degree. I gotta figure Dan plays a lot of meaningless casual rounds with no real pressure other than the score and like everyone else me included that's where some of our lowest rounds come from, further evidence was in his blog where he said he shot a practice round somewhere in the 70's the day before and then blows it wide open with an 88 and 87 over the weekend, that is where some people are getting the opinion he's closer to an 8-10 than a 5 or lower.

[shortstop20]

Yes he does need to see what real ball striking looks like in person, however it may wind up discouraging the crap out of him. The one thing that I always found so amazing watching the worlds best players was just how steady they were over the ball and how every ounce of energy found it's way to impact position, Dan it seems to me doesn't swing the club within his control limits that are compromised by his technical flaws, his driver is the club that shows this the most.

Watching Pro's hit the ball in person should have been at the top of his list when he embarked on this adventure so that he could get a perspective on how well they hit it. Seeing how the Pro's hit it gives the amateur golfer an idea of what a good player's shot looks like.

I haven't read all 90+ pages but it doesn't seem Dan has a very good plan.

[garybbq]

Money games are actually a great way to prepare for tournament pressure. My high school coach unofficially encouraged us to gamble with each other during practices and practice rounds. When you're on the 18th tee and you know there's a 5 hole carryover (with a press) on the line, it makes you behave as you would in a tournament!

I still don't get why everyone thinks he should play tournaments and work on pressure situations. If you want to play on the pga you need to be able to go out and shoot a mid 60s round at any courses, Dan can not even come close to this. Who cares if he can shoot a 77 in some tournament ?

[shortstop20]

I still don't get why everyone thinks he should play tournaments and work on pressure situations. If you want to play on the pga you need to be able to go out and shoot a mid 60s round at any courses, Dan can not even come close to this. Who cares if he can shoot a 77 in some tournament ?

I agree. Confidence in pressure situations will come from good scores and good shots.

[Pretzel]

I still don't get why everyone thinks he should play tournaments and work on pressure situations. If you want to play on the pga you need to be able to go out and shoot a mid 60s round at any courses, Dan can not even come close to this. Who cares if he can shoot a 77 in some tournament ?

Part of the reason is that you can kill two birds with one stone. Practice in pressure situations and get practice with your mechanics etc. He's done the last section of his plan with no tournaments, and look how that turned out. Playing in pressure situations isn't going to make it any worse than it already is (if you consider it to be going badly based on his goals and timeframe, which I do).

[garybbq]

Part of the reason is that you can kill two birds with one stone. Practice in pressure situations and get practice with your mechanics etc. He's done the last section of his plan with no tournaments, and look how that turned out. Playing in pressure situations isn't going to make it any worse than it already is (if you consider it to be going badly based on his goals and timeframe, which I do).

Well I don't see how that would ever work.... He's never shot a 65 but work on the 65 during a tournament ....

[Pretzel]

Well I don't see how that would ever work.... He's never shot a 65 but work on the 65 during a tournament ....

No, you work on improving in tournaments. You don't go out looking for a 65 and being disappointed with anything less. As he gets more comfortable with pressure situations it will also help him figure out if he's a good competitor or not. Good competitors usually tend to rise to the occasion and score better than usual in tournaments or money matches, whereas others may have a hard time in those situations and flounder. I'm just saying I would advise him to play in tournaments or money games so he can find out how he actually plays, instead of leading himself and the rest of the world on by overestimating his abilities. I did the same thing while I was improving my game.

[MS256]

No, you work on improving in tournaments. You don't go out looking for a 65 and being disappointed with anything less. As he gets more comfortable with pressure situations it will also help him figure out if he's a good competitor or not. Good competitors usually tend to rise to the occasion and score better than usual in tournaments or money matches, whereas others may have a hard time in those situations and flounder.

I'm just saying I would advise him to play in tournaments or money games so he can find out how he actually plays, instead of leading himself and the rest of the world on by overestimating his abilities. I did the same thing while I was improving my game.

If I want to see who the best players are going to be on the high school team in a couple of years all I have to do is drive down to the country club and see which kids are playing in the adult games (usually against a few college players).

They are getting their butts kicked right now but playing against better players will make high school seem like a piece of cake. Happens all the time.

BTW there is a 10 year old that has been playing in our Saturday game all summer. I'll bet my next pay check he ends up at least being a good college player.

[Lihu]

Right, and the person swinging at 105 with an efficient launch angle and smash factor will outdrive both of them. That was the point. :)

Exactly. More to the point, Dan does not have 105 built into him.

[nevets88]

Exactly. More to the point, Dan does not have 105 built into him.

If his TM was calibrated properly and you're going by TM, he does. One of his drives went 275+. And his swing could be more... optimized, duh, you could say that for everyone but you know what I mean. Plus his average driver AA was negative. http://thedanplan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Dan-Plan-2013-01-25-Multi-Group-Report.pdf Now all this assumes the TM data is accurate. I've never seen the guy swing live, or have an idea of how strong he is by watching his workouts, so I'm neither saying he is or isn't capable of a 270 yard drive under normal conditions. We don't know yet what he's truly capable of because he hasn't really gotten the most out of his swing yet. And I'm not going state definitively what he's capable of. How can we know that?

[garybbq]

No, you work on improving in tournaments. You don't go out looking for a 65 and being disappointed with anything less. As he gets more comfortable with pressure situations it will also help him figure out if he's a good competitor or not. Good competitors usually tend to rise to the occasion and score better than usual in tournaments or money matches, whereas others may have a hard time in those situations and flounder. I'm just saying I would advise him to play in tournaments or money games so he can find out how he actually plays, instead of leading himself and the rest of the world on by overestimating his abilities. I did the same thing while I was improving my game.

Well I agree that it would give him a true indication of his skill level, I don't see the point. I mean the pga requires around a +5 handicap which is worlds away from where Dan is now. He needs to shave at least 10 strokes off, playing tournaments is not going to do that. After he can break 70 regularly I think he should work on playing under pressure.