The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Shorty]

I hear ya, I assume to sell 50k copies that you'd more than likely need a publisher and then he'd get a tiny cut. We're in agreement that he's not going to make any real money, that's the point. What's the name of your book? Is there a kindle edition? Always like to support fellow golfers.

I'm pretty sure that there is no kindle edition so that fellow golfers don't "support" each other by sharing it around for free.

[Faksakes]

You're still kind of missing the point. If at the end he can take a few months to write a book and makes $50k, that's $50K for a few months of work. He's ALREADY done the other stuff.

No you're missing the point. Someone suggested he's in this for the money. I said it didn't make sense to spend years doing this for the money as he'd at most earn 50k for what amounts to 4 or 5 years worth of work (his time and loss of income). That's 10-13K per year. Saying it's just the time spent writing the book is silly and doesn't address the discussion being had. If he's doing this project for the money (as someone suggested) and he's only going to come out with 50k, it's not worth it (this is my point) to be in it for the money. He could have made more at MacDonalds during that time period. That's the discussion. I'm not saying he will succeed, I'm saying it was his intent, otherwise the project doesn't make sense to attempt. He has obviously been trying to monetize this or had the intent to monetize this from the start. If he fails they're be very little money to be made. 50K is probably extremely generous, I doubt very much he'll make that.

[Faksakes]

I'm pretty sure that there is no kindle edition so that fellow golfers don't "support" each other by sharing it around for free.

Fair enough, what's the name of the book do you know?

[Mac62]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty

I'm pretty sure that there is no kindle edition so that fellow golfers don't "support" each other by sharing it around for free.

Fair enough, what's the name of the book do you know?

Lowest Score Wins - http://lowestscorewins.com/

Great read, btw - a lot different (and better) than many of the BS golf books on the market.

[Faksakes]

Lowest Score Wins - http://lowestscorewins.com/

Great read, btw - a lot different (and better) than many of the BS golf books on the market.

Interesting, I'll check it out. Thanks.

[nevets88]

His current book is ranked ~800k on Amazon. That's ~0.5/week according to a couple of charts. If 0.5 is wrong, let's say it's 5/week, that's ~260 books a year from Kindle sales. His camera angles are all over the place, any book w/photos it's going to be hard to compare swings. Based on what he writes about the swing, he's miming what other people say. Only many years into the plan he wrote feel ain't real based on comparing videos. Based on that, I wonder what trenchant insights he'd have to tell us about instruction that's worth paying for.

[iacas]

No you're missing the point. Someone suggested he's in this for the money. I said it didn't make sense to spend years doing this for the money as he'd at most earn 50k for what amounts to 4 or 5 years worth of work (his time and loss of income). That's 10-13K per year. Saying it's just the time spent writing the book is silly and doesn't address the discussion being had. If he's doing this project for the money (as someone suggested) and he's only going to come out with 50k, it's not worth it (this is my point) to be in it for the money. He could have made more at MacDonalds during that time period. That's the discussion.

I'm not saying he will succeed, I'm saying it was his intent, otherwise the project doesn't make sense to attempt. He has obviously been trying to monetize this or had the intent to monetize this from the start. If he fails they're be very little money to be made. 50K is probably extremely generous, I doubt very much he'll make that.

At the very real risk of belaboring this well beyond what makes sense…

The original post to which you responded talked about how maybe he could become a motivational guy. A book was a small part of that. A transition away from his original goals.

@Lihu said he'd read it. You said he'd make no money even if he sold 50k books.

I pointed out how wrong that was. And that's about all I've done.

He's already spent the 4 or 5 years or whatever it is. That's money and time he's not getting back. Writing the book is something he could do extra, on top of that, and salvage $50k (proposed hypotheticals) from time he's already spent in pursuit of a different goal.

I agree that $50k is generous, but hey, you're the one who said you can't make any money off 50k books sold . I'm just saying that's not quite right.

Will he ever actually make the cut in a PGA Tour event? No. No chance. His ceiling is likely around scratch, and that's playing a lot.

[Nosevi]

I'm interested to hear what people think to a comment just posted on Dan's latest blog post by Brian Kuehn (anyone on here?) because I think it makes a good point:

"What does one do as a full time golf practitioner when one is unable to play or practice golf? Performing rehabilitative exercises can only take up so much of one’s day. Clearly you are not tweeting or posting on your blog. What are you doing with all the down time? Did you find a PT job as you were thinking about several months ago? Are you able to do any sort of physical tasks? Can you at least work on your short game or putting or do even those movements cause a problem? "

The bit in bold is a good question. Nothing has been posted to the 10,000 hours countdown since 2nd May and that wasn't golf, it was about the back. The last golf was posted on April 26th so 7 1/2 weeks ago now. I'd think that was a reasonable amount of time off without actually getting a scan or something. With most injuries (or possibly all, not a doctor but I'd think so) early diagnosis and correct treatment is pretty important for a good recovery but Dan actually injured his back on 13th April - 9 1/2 weeks is a long time to not know exactly what the problem is.....

My question would be why? Why no massive push on the putting and chipping front? He's had a go at swinging a golf club a few times and played the odd half round, that should indicate that putting and chipping should be ok to do but there's no mention of it. Just doesn't really add up to me.

[Lihu]

I'm interested to hear what people think to a comment just posted on Dan's latest blog post by Brian Kuehn (anyone on here?) because I think it makes a good point:

"What does one do as a full time golf practitioner when one is unable to play or practice golf? Performing rehabilitative exercises can only take up so much of one’s day. Clearly you are not tweeting or posting on your blog. What are you doing with all the down time? Did you find a PT job as you were thinking about several months ago? Are you able to do any sort of physical tasks? Can you at least work on your short game or putting or do even those movements cause a problem?"

The bit in bold is a good question. Nothing has been posted to the 10,000 hours countdown since 2nd May and that wasn't golf, it was about the back. The last golf was posted on April 26th so 7 1/2 weeks ago now. I'd think that was a reasonable amount of time off without actually getting a scan or something. With most injuries (or possibly all, not a doctor but I'd think so) early diagnosis and correct treatment is pretty important for a good recovery but Dan actually injured his back on 13th April - 9 1/2 weeks is a long time to not know exactly what the problem is.....

My question would be why? Why no massive push on the putting and chipping front? He's had a go at swinging a golf club a few times and played the odd half round, that should indicate that putting and chipping should be ok to do but there's no mention of it. Just doesn't really add up to me.

Doesn't make sense to me either. With the amount of effort he puts in per day, he should be able to pull a full time job.

Start the day at 4:00am and play until 7:30 or something like that, work 8-10 hours, 5:30 go home and eat, (he has no kids or wife), go the the driving range to do his drills for a couple hours or so, 8:00pm do other things like blog, sleep early to wake up at 4:00am the next day. . .

This still gives him 5.5 hours or more per day of playing golf and deliberate practice.

[tdiii]

I'm interested to hear what people think to a comment just posted on Dan's latest blog post by Brian Kuehn (anyone on here?) because I think it makes a good point:

"What does one do as a full time golf practitioner when one is unable to play or practice golf? Performing rehabilitative exercises can only take up so much of one’s day. Clearly you are not tweeting or posting on your blog. What are you doing with all the down time? Did you find a PT job as you were thinking about several months ago? Are you able to do any sort of physical tasks? Can you at least work on your short game or putting or do even those movements cause a problem?"

The bit in bold is a good question. Nothing has been posted to the 10,000 hours countdown since 2nd May and that wasn't golf, it was about the back. The last golf was posted on April 26th so 7 1/2 weeks ago now. I'd think that was a reasonable amount of time off without actually getting a scan or something. With most injuries (or possibly all, not a doctor but I'd think so) early diagnosis and correct treatment is pretty important for a good recovery but Dan actually injured his back on 13th April - 9 1/2 weeks is a long time to not know exactly what the problem is.....

My question would be why? Why no massive push on the putting and chipping front? He's had a go at swinging a golf club a few times and played the odd half round, that should indicate that putting and chipping should be ok to do but there's no mention of it. Just doesn't really add up to me.

Very simple explanation.  He's given up but doesn't have the balls to explain himself.

One thing I've noticed about most sporting endeavors.  The better you get the more you start to appreciate the gap -- excuse me, chasm -- between excellent and elite.  I remember as a beginning skier (I started late, in high school) wanting to be able to ski black diamonds thinking that made me a good skier.  And once I was able to ski them competently, I realized that the gap between a beginner and skiing black diamonds competently is miniscule compared to the gap between skiing black diamonds and being an excellent skier.

And we see the same thing in golf, as many have observed in this thread.

So, Dan comes along thinking he can with hard work have a chance to maybe play a tour event.   Finally, at 5,000 hours in he's a decent golfer (somewhere between a 3 and and 8, depending upon whom you ask).  And, only now, can he begin to appreciate the difference between what he can do and what it takes.  It is a gigantic, insurmountable chasm.  He has to know there is zero chance that even a watered down version of his goal is achievable.

So, he quits, but doesn't have the Titleists to just come out and say it.  He's looking for a face saving way to move on from this.  A shame, really.

[Faksakes]

Well one thing is certain, now is when we'll find out what he's made of. Lots of reasons to quit. Money, injuries, criticism etc. Hell he's not even getting free memberships anymore. Personally I hope he doesn't quit but instead starts a new plan with the help of a real instructor for his remaining time. Time line goals, specific plan how to reach those goals and to track his progress. A strength and flexibility program as well.

[Nosevi]

Very simple explanation.  He's given up but doesn't have the balls to explain himself.

One thing I've noticed about most sporting endeavors.  The better you get the more you start to appreciate the gap -- excuse me, chasm -- between excellent and elite.  I remember as a beginning skier (I started late, in high school) wanting to be able to ski black diamonds thinking that made me a good skier.  And once I was able to ski them competently, I realized that the gap between a beginner and skiing black diamonds competently is miniscule compared to the gap between skiing black diamonds and being an excellent skier.

And we see the same thing in golf, as many have observed in this thread.

So, Dan comes along thinking he can with hard work have a chance to maybe play a tour event.   Finally, at 5,000 hours in he's a decent golfer (somewhere between a 3 and and 8, depending upon whom you ask).  And, only now, can he begin to appreciate the difference between what he can do and what it takes.  It is a gigantic, insurmountable chasm.  He has to know there is zero chance that even a watered down version of his goal is achievable.

So, he quits, but doesn't have the Titleists to just come out and say it.  He's looking for a face saving way to move on from this.  A shame, really.

Maybe you're right, it does kind of account for why there's been no activity for an age. Even before the back issue it was getting longer and longer between blog updates.

But knowing your goal has to be one of the first things you nail down, surely? If you have no clue of what you're aiming at how do you aim at it? It's fundamental in my eyes. I keep bleating on about how I'm going about trying to accomplish something broadly similar to Dan because I JUST DON'T GET IT!!!

My target is a tour called the Europro Tour. It's a developmental tour below the Challenge Tour which is below the European Tour. Not sure what level is below Web.com tour over there but it's more or less that level. So I needed to know how good a player on the Europro was. I found one, came to an agreement and we train together from time to time. In fact we have a session tomorrow evening working on pitching and next Tuesday I have a short game session with a lass who plays on tour in Europe who I practice with regularly. I know exactly how big the chasm is because I've gone out and found out. I train with guys at the level I want to hit a couple of times a week, I know how they strike the ball (in fact I have all their launch monitor data, video analysis etc), I know how the chip, how the putt, how close they get from 60, 70, 80 yards out. In a nutshell I know exactly what it will take because without knowing that I'd have no clue whatsoever what I'm aiming at.

It's basic - you need something to benchmark yourself against and watching the PGA Tour on the TV isn't going to cut it.

[Phil McGleno]

My target is a tour called the Europro Tour. It's a developmental tour below the Challenge Tour which is below the European Tour. Not sure what level is below Web.com tour over there but it's more or less that level.

The Web.com Tour is barely lower than the European Tour so you can not compare them like that. Challenge Tour big gap worse than Web.com.

[Nosevi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

My target is a tour called the Europro Tour. It's a developmental tour below the Challenge Tour which is below the European Tour. Not sure what level is below Web.com tour over there but it's more or less that level.

The Web.com Tour is barely lower than the European Tour so you can not compare them like that. Challenge Tour big gap worse than Web.com.

Didn't know that. What are you basing it on?

I'd think the top guys solely playing on the European Tour are more than a tad above those at the top of the Web.com Tour. At the end of the day we always have the odd player who only plays the European Tour playing in the Ryder Cup and I'm not sure the Web.com players would be picked. And we usually win, I thought

[b101]

Can't believe it - had the Sky feed on pause overnight and who shows up being interviewed in the middle of the US Open coverage... fastforward time!

Edit: They've got him colour-commentating for a bit on Tiger et al. This is ludicrous.

[Nosevi]

Can't believe it - had the Sky feed on pause overnight and who shows up being interviewed in the middle of the US Open coverage... fastforward time! Edit: They've got him colour-commentating for a bit on Tiger et al. This is ludicrous.

Maybe he's made it then :) What time in the coverage was that? Got it recorded so may have a look for interest sake.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by b101

Can't believe it - had the Sky feed on pause overnight and who shows up being interviewed in the middle of the US Open coverage... fastforward time!

Edit: They've got him colour-commentating for a bit on Tiger et al. This is ludicrous.

Maybe he's made it then :)

What time in the coverage was that? Got it recorded so may have a look for interest sake.

Nothing new. Link

[b101]

Nothing new. Link

Fixed the link - Link