The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[k14]

If you took any pro and rewound them by 4300 hours of dedicated practice before after their first start, they would either be playing collegiate golf at the highest level (Jordan Spieth, Tiger Woods etc.), winning prestigious amateur tournaments (Lydia Ko, top ranked amateur for 130 weeks prior to going pro), or playing on another professional circuit such as the web.com tour.

For these guys rewinding them by 4300 hours is like saying, "What did you do last year at this time?" or "What did you do between a year and two years ago?". They put in the hours, and Dan does not.

Interesting way to look at it. Just an FYI, I can see Lydia Ko's handicap history from the NZ golf website. If we say that she was practicing ~2000 hours a year then two years before she turned pro (Feb 2011) she was playing off +6.0. A year before that she was playing off +2.1. When she turned pro her handicap was +6.7. There is probably a little as all of her overseas rounds are not counted in that calc.

Not sure how this relates to Dan. Comparing one of the best golfers ever (considering she was playing off +6 at 14 years old) is probably not the best thing for him to aim for.

[k14]

I think we would find that most Tour caliper players practiced a heck of a lot more than 10,000 hours even minus 4300 hours.

My son's friend that started taking golf seriously at the same time Dan started his plan was already invited to play pebble beach and played there this last summer. He is about scratch, and only almost 16 years old. This is the kid that I stated in earlier posts in this thread, practiced over 30,000 hours starting roughly 3-4 years ago. No one really knows for sure if he will even become pro, but he is probably a lot closer than Dan. Plus, this kid wins some of his tournaments.

This is probably why you think Dan is light years behind, because he doesn't stand a chance against any of the kids like the one I mentioned.

He did what? Spent 20 hours a day practicing golf for the last 4 years? Yeah sure....

[Lihu]

He did what? Spent 20 hours a day practicing golf for the last 4 years? Yeah sure....

Good catch, I meant he spent 30,000 hours in his entire 10 year golfing lifetime most of which was in the last 3-4 years.

[Golfingdad]

Good catch, I meant he spent 30,000 hours in his entire 10 year golfing lifetime most of which was in the last 3-4 years.

Lihu, even if you spread that evenly over the course of those 10 years, you are talking about 8 hours, 13 minutes, and 8 seconds of practice EVERY SINGLE DAY for 10 years.  No sick days, no holidays, no weekends off, no nothing.

I am a lazy son of a gun and I don't even SLEEP that much.

[Lihu]

Lihu, even if you spread that evenly over the course of those 10 years, you are talking about 8 hours, 13 minutes, and 8 seconds of practice EVERY SINGLE DAY for 10 years.  No sick days, no holidays, no weekends off, no nothing.

I am a lazy son of a gun and I don't even SLEEP that much.

Yup, I think we discussed this in earlier posts in this thread. This kid is really obsessed with golf.

[Golfingdad]

Yup, I think we discussed this in earlier posts in this thread. This kid is really obsessed with golf.

Does he go to school?  Eat meals?  Sleep?  Have friends?

[Lihu]

Does he go to school?  Eat meals?  Sleep?  Have friends?

20,000 hours. Not 30,000

I even wrote that he did 15,400 almost this time last year in a post. He probably only spent 5000 hours this last year since he was on a high school team. He dropped from a 4.2 to a 0.7 but went back up to a 1.7 with a couple bad rounds.

[iacas]

He probably only spent 5000 hours this last year since he was on a high school team. He dropped from a 4.2 to a 0.7 but went back up to a 1.7 with a couple bad rounds.

He spent 13.7 hours EVERY DAY this "last year" on dedicated practice?

@Lihu , c'mon man, you're a scientist aren't you? These numbers should be jumping off the page at you!

[Lihu]

He spent 13.7 hours EVERY DAY this "last year" on dedicated practice?

@Lihu, c'mon man, you're a scientist aren't you? These numbers should be jumping off the page at you!

He's obsessed, but my numbers are off.

For one, the "year" I was talking about includes the last school year, summer and part of this school year. Secondly, he did spend a little time on homework. So, I'm off by at least 33%. Plus, this time includes rounds. I should ask his dad tonight what time he actually spent.

[Abu3baid]

He's obsessed, but my numbers are off. For one, the "year" I was talking about includes the last school year, summer and part of this school year. Secondly, he did spend a little time on homework. So, I'm off by at least 33%. Plus, this time includes rounds. I should ask his dad tonight what time he actually spent. :whistle:

I like that.. so, 33% you say...? LA LA LA :)

[Lihu]

I like that.. so, 33% you say...? LA LA LA :)

Give or take 10%.

[natureboy]

There are two types of people who I really resent:

1.) The guy who wants to accomplish something and get you to pay for it.

2.) The scientist who wants to study something and gets you to pay for it.

The first guy is like the amputee or diabetic or blind guy who wants to climb Mount Everest, or walk to the North Pole.  He's going to "raise awareness" of the disability and inspire everyone etc.  But really he's just looking to have an adventure for free.

The second guy is the PHD studying the effects of global warming on Actic penguins, or he's diving in St. Croix to determine if the lobster population is affected by tourism (come to find out, they're still delicious!).  That guy gets a grant and has an adventure for free as well.  My parents lived in American Samoa for awhile and there were two of these knuckleheads who got a grant to, "study the viability of sport fishing in American Samoa."  That was the purpose of thier grant. They had a nice boat, rods and reels, fuel, bait etc.  All paid for by the American taxpayer.  They would fish about every day and write down what they caught.  I'm sure the report was very scholarly.  I actually got to go out fishing with these guys.  We caught Mahi Mahi and yellow fin tuna on that trip.  What a joke.  It's no wonder that the debt is $16 trillion.

Dan is a hybrid of these two types of grifters.  He's actually performing a study - without the PHD or the handicap (no pun intended)!!  He's taken the art of having the adventure, without the bother of obtaining an advanced degree or overcoming a disability.

Well done con-man!!  You are getting others to pay for your golf while proving absolutely nothing and inspiring absolutely no one!!

I think grift and con are hyperbolic terms, but you feel how you feel. Sharp salesman, I would grant you.

I disagree on guy #1 - the person with a disability taking on a monumental task is pretty inspiring - especially for folks like them. It's courageous.

On guy # 2 - yeah there are some dubious grants sometimes, but that's what pure research is about. The fault on those usually resides with the review committee. I suspect that the grant you use as an example was part of our very targeted government effort to strengthen the economic diversity of a U.S. territory with some strategic value. The congressional junket to inspect the sport fishing industry on the other hand...

[acerimusdux]

He spent 13.7 hours EVERY DAY this "last year" on dedicated practice?

@Lihu, c'mon man, you're a scientist aren't you? These numbers should be jumping off the page at you!

Regardless of the actual number, it should maybe be pointed out that one key point in the actual scientific literature on deliberate practice is that more than 4 hours a day seems to have little benefit. In fact the ideal for many things seems to be somewhere around 3 hours a day, ideally divided into two sessions of about 1.5 hours. And the very best are usually very disciplined about doing these two sessions at a set time every day.

It's not clear this translates exactly to golf, but it's probably not all that diffferent from other areas which have been studied.  And, applying this to any physical activity like Golf, there's also obviously going to be physical fatigue and injury risk due to overuse (such as golfers elbow) if you are doing too many hours as well.  This is why that 10,000 hours is really supposed to be spread out over 10 years time.

So I doubt Dan's problem is really that there are so many people dedicating more hours. It's more likely it's going to be a combination of talent, and not actually practicing correctly, that will hold him back.

[Lihu]

Regardless of the actual number, it should maybe be pointed out that one key point in the actual scientific literature on deliberate practice is that more than 4 hours a day seems to have little benefit. In fact the ideal for many things seems to be somewhere around 3 hours a day, ideally divided into two sessions of about 1.5 hours. And the very best are usually very disciplined about doing these two sessions at a set time every day.  It's not clear this translates exactly to golf, but it's probably not all that diffferent from other areas which have been studied.  And, applying this to any physical activity like Golf, there's also obviously going to be physical fatigue and injury risk due to overuse (such as golfers elbow) if you are doing too many hours as well.  This is why that 10,000 hours is really supposed to be spread out over 10 years time.  So I doubt Dan's problem is really that there are so many people dedicating more hours. It's more likely it's going to be a combination of talent, and not actually practicing correctly, that will hold him back.

Interesting point regarding the 3 hours split into two 1.5 hour sessions.

[flopster]

He's obsessed, but my numbers are off.

For one, the "year" I was talking about includes the last school year, summer and part of this school year. Secondly, he did spend a little time on homework. So, I'm off by at least 33%. Plus, this time includes rounds. I should ask his dad tonight what time he actually spent.

Just for reference a full time job is right at 2000 hours, I think a kid may have 1,500 hours available per year, school will take a very large bite of available daylight. Not trying to say he doesn't spend lots of time cause he probably does but he just simply doesn't have enough daylight available to put in that many hours after other obligations.

[nevets88]

Let's also take into account how much abuse the body can take. Practicing past a certain number of hours a day can be counterproductive. The mind and body can only absorb so much. Another thing I don't like about specialization is there's less of a chance for a person to be well rounded.

[Spitfisher]

So where is "Dan"? this thread began in 2011, one can assume that Dan was well on his way at that point. Its clear today that no matter how many hours, he still isn't on tour or any tour. So there is your answer.

BTW I felt someone that could be exposed to the finest teachers this country could offer in golf, all the time in the world to practice an play, facilities and the latest technology still would not be enough to get on tour. Here is why, it ( the tour) requires the gift, the gift is in your brain, body and DNA and it can not be taught, you either have it or not.

so can we assume Dan has failed in his ultimate goal ?  I know I can.

[Lihu]

Just for reference a full time job is right at 2000 hours, I think a kid may have 1,500 hours available per year, school will take a very large bite of available daylight. Not trying to say he doesn't spend lots of time cause he probably does but he just simply doesn't have enough daylight available to put in that many hours after other obligations.

True. However, I work on average 47 hours per week on average, and practice 2-4 hours per day and spend 2-4 hours doing homework with the kids etc. I take 2 weeks a year off, this works out on average about 4500 hours. I still get 6-7 hours sleep. My son's friend only has 4 hours of class, the courses are 5-10 minutes away from his school. He's not an "A" student, and takes normal classes. It's possible, but in retrospect, not likely? I'll ask tonight.