The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Lihu]

I'm kind of thinking you won't, there's nothing material in there, just a guy playing golf (or not playing golf right now as the case may be). Could be someone is going to dig up a gem that'll help my chipping technique or perhaps enlighten me on a way to better focus my practice but I'm still betting they don't.

Well, I dug up this Rub e y:

Start your putting a foot from the hole, then work your way back an inch at a time per day. By the end of first year you should be more consistent with your 365 inch putts. However, you have to stop this long game practice.

[Golfingdad]

Start your putting a foot from the hole, then work your way back an inch at a time per day. By the end of first year you should be more consistent with your 365 inch putts.

That's some shaky math right there.

[Nosevi]

[QUOTE name="Nosevi" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3330#post_1175801"] I'm kind of thinking you won't, there's nothing material in there, just a guy playing golf (or not playing golf right now as the case may be). Could be someone is going to dig up a gem that'll help my chipping technique or perhaps enlighten me on a way to better focus my practice but I'm still betting they don't.[/QUOTE] Well, I dug up this Rub[S]e[/S]y: Start your putting a foot from the hole, then work your way back an inch at a time per day. By the end of first year you should be more consistent with your 365 inch putts. However, you have to stop this long game practice.

Lol Like I said, I've spotted the occasional pit fall in the plan :) Btw I challenged you to find something in the last 2 years......

[Nosevi]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3330_30#post_1175807"]   Start your putting a foot from the hole, then work your way back an inch at a time per day. By the end of first year you should be more consistent with your 365 inch putts. [/QUOTE] That's some shaky math right there.;-)

Spotted it too, was too kind to mention it :-)

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

The media folks who are writing most of the articles don't know golf, let alone deliberate practice, which is a term that can be interpreted so many ways.

Very true. Question is though, you're thinking of doing your own 'Dan Plan' - learn to be a pro golfer from zero experience........ in fact a pro anything from zero experience. You read the blog. What have you leaned?

Don't even think of starting, but that's just me.

Lol

But where's the fun in that? I've actually learned a lot from The Dan Plan. Not necessarily how to go about it but I've learned about a few of the potential pit falls. Pretty much all of them actually .........

No, wait... I learned something very important.

Golf is ****ing Hard!

[mchepp]

In fact here's a challenge - I challenge anyone to find anything in The Dan Plan posted in say the last 2 years that tells you anything at all about how to get better at golf or how Dan has gone about doing so. Practice routine, technique, drill, practice programme, fitness regime, any ball flight data....... anything at all. Could be wrong but I think you'll come up short.

Does doing the Trackman combine count?

All kidding aside, I asked him this question. Well. Maybe not exactly this question but something similar about how he was going about deliberate practice. His answer was not inspiring. Because I think he doesn't know how to go about practice. Erik has said this before, and it is true.

But even if he had a practice plan he is not the type of person to detail out what he is doing. That is just not his personality. He is much more of an artist, free spirited, than someone with a detailed list of what he is suppose to be doing. And I can't say this is the wrong way to go about this. Do you think Seve had such a detailed list? I get the sense he went about things creatively rather than detailing them in a blog or anything like that. The goal of his blog is to be a diary, not a plan for someone else to follow to get better at playing golf.

[Lihu]

[quote name="Golfingdad" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3330#post_1175824"][QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3330_30#post_1175807"]   Start your putting a foot from the hole, then work your way back an inch at a time per day. By the end of first year you should be more consistent with your 365 inch putts. [/QUOTE] That's some shaky math right there.;-)

Spotted it too, was too kind to mention it :-)[/quote] Yeah, I caught it earlier, but got wrapped up in work stuff. I'll just call it an "estimate". :-P

[Nosevi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

In fact here's a challenge - I challenge anyone to find anything in The Dan Plan posted in say the last 2 years that tells you anything at all about how to get better at golf or how Dan has gone about doing so. Practice routine, technique, drill, practice programme, fitness regime, any ball flight data....... anything at all. Could be wrong but I think you'll come up short.

Does doing the Trackman combine count?

All kidding aside, I asked him this question. Well. Maybe not exactly this question but something similar about how he was going about deliberate practice. His answer was not inspiring. Because I think he doesn't know how to go about practice. Erik has said this before, and it is true.

But even if he had a practice plan he is not the type of person to detail out what he is doing. That is just not his personality. He is much more of an artist, free spirited, than someone with a detailed list of what he is suppose to be doing. And I can't say this is the wrong way to go about this. Do you think Seve had such a detailed list? I get the sense he went about things creatively rather than detailing them in a blog or anything like that. The goal of his blog is to be a diary, not a plan for someone else to follow to get better at playing golf.

You got me, last one is under the 2 year deadline The thing is everyone talks about Dan's lack of distance off the tee (and to be fair he's mentioned it himself quite recently) but the last thing we have to go on was back in Nov 2013 where he was carrying the ball 228 yards on average with a driver. Who knows how far he carries it now, I don't.

Regarding what you've said about the way Dan is going about it I'm not disagreeing but isn't that the irony - there's no plan. Seve had massive natural talent to fall back on and regularly did as off the tee was not where his talent lay, but the concept of The Dan Plan is to test a hypothesis and as far as anyone can tell the basis of that hypothesis (deliberate practice) isn't being tested. It might be, I have no idea because no one has a clue about what deliberate practice Dan does, it's never mentioned, it mostly seems to be just going out and playing golf. So the question is can an average guy just go out and play lots of golf and end up good enough to play on the PGA Tour? I don't know but I think that's been tried before ie by every keen recreational golfer ever to play the game. Surely the point was to try something a little different?

I have no problem with Dan, actually I quite like the guy on a personal level (although I think he's made some mistakes, especially by choosing not to engage with people who are following him), but the whole concept was to go out, engage in deliberate practice, chart the lot and see if the 10,000 hour theory could be shown to hold true. That hasn't happened and at the end of the 10,000 hours all anyone will be able to say is he played lots of golf and got to a certain level. Not sure what that will prove.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

In fact here's a challenge - I challenge anyone to find anything in The Dan Plan posted in say the last 2 years that tells you anything at all about how to get better at golf or how Dan has gone about doing so. Practice routine, technique, drill, practice programme, fitness regime, any ball flight data....... anything at all. Could be wrong but I think you'll come up short.

Does doing the Trackman combine count?

All kidding aside, I asked him this question. Well. Maybe not exactly this question but something similar about how he was going about deliberate practice. His answer was not inspiring. Because I think he doesn't know how to go about practice. Erik has said this before, and it is true.

But even if he had a practice plan he is not the type of person to detail out what he is doing. That is just not his personality. He is much more of an artist, free spirited, than someone with a detailed list of what he is suppose to be doing. And I can't say this is the wrong way to go about this. Do you think Seve had such a detailed list? I get the sense he went about things creatively rather than detailing them in a blog or anything like that. The goal of his blog is to be a diary, not a plan for someone else to follow to get better at playing golf.

I agree, but since he put the words "deliberate practice" in his aim/goals statement, I was hoping to see more related to it, like him mapping out his swing, nothing super detail oriented, similar to short, slow, specific, simple. I think his interpretation of deliberate practice is more academic based or at least, different than what I'm thinking.

I would go as far as to say that abman's video has a good bit of creativity to it and has a decent amount of detail.

[Nosevi]

I agree, but since he put the words "deliberate practice" in his aim/goals statement, I was hoping to see more related to it, like him mapping out his swing, nothing super detail oriented, similar to short, slow, specific, simple. I think his interpretation of deliberate practice is more academic based or at least, different than what I'm thinking.

I would go as far as to say that abman's video has a good bit of creativity to it and has a decent amount of detail.

He also put the word "Plan" in there. I STILL believe Dan could turn it around but what he needs is a plan. At this moment in time he doesn't appear to have one.

Re Abman's video, I honestly learned more about his methodology, practice technique and theory for improvement than I have about Dan's in the last 3 or even 4 years - basically since he ditched the "I'm going to get to Tour Pro stats from x distance from the pin before moving further out." That was a methodology. From memory it lasted to about 8 or 10 feet then was ditched - pretty silly idea anyway.

I get that Dan isn't very scientific in his approach, what I don't get is calling something a "Plan" but actually not having one. I suppose you could call it litterary irony but I'm guessing it's not deliberate.

Dan now needs a Plan or the remaining hours in the 10,000 hours will simply tick away (if he ever starts recording them again of course). If he'd listen to anyone he may even get an outline for one.  Kind of hope he does.

[mchepp]

I agree, but since he put the words "deliberate practice" in his aim/goals statement, I was hoping to see more related to it, like him mapping out his swing, nothing super detail oriented, similar to short, slow, specific, simple. I think his interpretation of deliberate practice is more academic based or at least, different than what I'm thinking.

I would go as far as to say that abman's video has a good bit of creativity to it and has a decent amount of detail.

Abman's problem in my opinion is he is working from feels. He tells you constantly things he "feels". Chasing feels is like chasing the end of the rainbow. It is a exciting feeling but it is fleeting and can disappear at any time (as it appears it does for him).

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

I agree, but since he put the words "deliberate practice" in his aim/goals statement, I was hoping to see more related to it, like him mapping out his swing, nothing super detail oriented, similar to short, slow, specific, simple. I think his interpretation of deliberate practice is more academic based or at least, different than what I'm thinking.

I would go as far as to say that abman's video has a good bit of creativity to it and has a decent amount of detail.

Abman's problem in my opinion is he is working from feels. He tells you constantly things he "feels". Chasing feels is like chasing the end of the rainbow. It is a exciting feeling but it is fleeting and can disappear at any time (as it appears it does for him).

True.  I'd speculate that if he did have a good pro, his vids about his progress would be more along the lines of seeing how deliberate practice works. But we already have some of that in the swing threads.

[k14]

I'm surprised I'm the first to mention this, but all this talk of talent and the drive to practice for hours on end in terrible weather etc as different things, no one has picked up that this is talent. Talent comes in many forms and I believe that you don't necessarily need all of forms to be great at something. You need a lot of them but you can make up for deficiencies in some aspects by being brilliant at others. Zach Johnson is a perfect example, not in the same ballpark of Dustin Johnson, Rory etc in the athletic department but there must be some other aspect (whatever that may be) that he has managed to make up that shortfall that he excels at.

Dan on the other hand, I think we are yet to find he excels at any elements of talent.

[Vinsk]

I'm surprised I'm the first to mention this, but all this talk of talent and the drive to practice for hours on end in terrible weather etc as different things, no one has picked up that this is talent. Talent comes in many forms and I believe that you don't necessarily need all of forms to be great at something. You need a lot of them but you can make up for deficiencies in some aspects by being brilliant at others. Zach Johnson is a perfect example, not in the same ballpark of Dustin Johnson, Rory etc in the athletic department but there must be some other aspect (whatever that may be) that he has managed to make up that shortfall that he excels at. Dan on the other hand, I think we are yet to find he excels at any elements of talent.

I may have misunderstood you. Although I agree talent is spread across many different areas and can be compensated/utilized many ways like Zach Johnson, I don't believe desire or dedication is a talent. Working hard even in bad weather shows a strong commitment but isn't in itself talent. Of course talent can be very obscure and is often measured by the product it produces. If two individuals have the same instructor, put in the same effort and time on a task/sport...(golf of course) and after 6 months one is breaking 90 and the other is still firing 100+, it may be fair to say one is more "talented" than the other. Again, it's relative. There are I'm sure many guys who could be doing Dan's plan with him who would be far better than he is by now but probably just as many worse. Ability and Talent are not the same thing. A lot of people have the ability to play golf well, but there is some unclear level where one who is talented is simply better. Does this make any sense?

[newtogolf]

I'm surprised I'm the first to mention this, but all this talk of talent and the drive to practice for hours on end in terrible weather etc as different things, no one has picked up that this is talent. Talent comes in many forms and I believe that you don't necessarily need all of forms to be great at something. You need a lot of them but you can make up for deficiencies in some aspects by being brilliant at others. Zach Johnson is a perfect example, not in the same ballpark of Dustin Johnson, Rory etc in the athletic department but there must be some other aspect (whatever that may be) that he has managed to make up that shortfall that he excels at.

Dan on the other hand, I think we are yet to find he excels at any elements of talent.

Zach Johnson has significant talent it's just lacking when you compare him to some of the top players.  The fact Zach is on the Tour and won two Majors is proof he has superior talent to all but a select few he plays with on Tour.  Even at the highest of levels, there are disparities in talent, effort and good fortune.

If Dan possesses the talent required to play on a professional tour he's yet to showcase it.  At this point I see a lack of talent, effort and actual plan as the causes for his failure.

[Vinsk]

Zach Johnson has significant talent it's just lacking when you compare him to some of the top players.  The fact Zach is on the Tour and won two Majors is proof he has superior talent to all but a select few he plays with on Tour.  Even at the highest of levels, there are disparities in talent, effort and good fortune. If Dan possesses the talent required to play on a professional tour he's yet to showcase it.  At this point I see a lack of talent, effort and actual plan as the causes for his failure.

I agree.

[RandallT]

The back injury is taking its toll now. April, May, June, and July have ticked by- with very little activity.  His downtime hasn't led to much introspection or substantive site update, and folks are starting to vocalize. I assume Dan filters comments, so kudos to him for even publishing these.

Quote:

Aaron says:

July 28, 2015 at 2:37 pm

I want to be able to say something positive, to root for you. But you’ve made it almost impossible, dude.

You don’t interact with anyone on your blog, rarely post updates or stats. You don’t video blog or discuss any real details about what life is like day-to-day.

It’s really quite a sad statement that this is what it’s come to. From what I can tell, you don’t take criticism on board, don’t address issues with your game or your blog/reporting on your plan.

Seems to me you’ve effectively given up. I hope that’s not true and I’m wrong, but after all this time without anything getting better, I highly doubt it.

A once upon a time fan.

Quote:

Theguru says:

July 29, 2015 at 4:35 am

I have to agree with the above post Dan.
You might have answered my questions elsewhere but a quick 3 minute summary and answer to my questions would be appreciated.
Surely if you are not playing golf or updating the blog:countdown then you have time.
Not trying to give you a hard time, I sincerely hope your physical and mental wellbeing are ok.
But some aspects of this project are courting public interest, other aspects appear to be shunning it.
Have you counted any of your rehab time towards the 10000 hours?

Quote:

Stefan says:

July 30, 2015 at 3:01 am

The same with me, Dan.

Your blog has become quite much of a monologue and it looks if at this time you don’t care for the rest of your page at all.

People are trying here to help you continuing your plan and become and stay healthy but I suppose that will diminish if you show no reaction to questions and proposals.

How can I even be sure that you are still reading these comments at all?

Kind regards
Stefan

I found this an excellent comment too:

Quote:

Brian Kuehn says:

July 24, 2015 at 10:55 am

Personally, I would be concerned if after nearly 3 months of rest I was still subject to acute pain and limited movement. If you are certain your current approach is the best one, then good luck on the continued rehabilitation.

You might also want to reconsider your use of a different swing to allow pain-free play. Unless you plan on that “over the top arm swing” as a permanent change, you really should avoid playing until you can make your correct swing.

After this much time resting, he still has significant pain and limitations in movement. And there is no diagnosis from any medical professional. Is it wise to even play at all, especially when he has written that he is sticking with an "over the top arm swing?"

He has twice now (at least) referred to his stock fade swing as armsy and his stock draw as more of a clearing the hips and "dropping the club into the slot" swing.

Are there any professionals that would recommend two distinct swings based on desired shot shape?  If so, Dan is working on just one of his shot shapes now. If not, Dan is pretty much ingraining poor habits at the moment because he has not recovered his body yet.

[Lihu]

Actually, his arm dominant swing is extremely common. Most golfers have it. The ones that don't are usually single digit players. There's no "falling back" on that type of swing, you lose control, power, consistency. On top of that, it's much harder on your body. If your back is hurting, I don't see how that would help? It makes no sense to me at all.