The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[natureboy]

3 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

He honestly just needs to go play in more tournaments though, rather than quit playing in them entirely. The problem that Dan has is he can't easily garner support without success, but he can't have a hope of success (not really on the PGA, that's not happening at all, but at any level in general) without having some kind of support to be able to afford it.

Golf is expensive, he should've kept some kind of job while attempting his plan.

Erroneous, unrealistic planning I'll grant you. I just don't take cheater or liar from that. His discussion in media about current HCP status is less open than I would consider ideal, but like I said probably a 'best foot forward' approach now that he's a little boxed into a corner.

[nevets88]

31 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

He honestly just needs to go play in more tournaments though, rather than quit playing in them entirely. The problem that Dan has is he can't easily garner support without success, but he can't have a hope of success (not really on the PGA, that's not happening at all, but at any level in general) without having some kind of support to be able to afford it.

Golf is expensive, he should've kept some kind of job while attempting his plan.

I'm betting there are not many donations coming in anymore. If you're blogging and go completely silent for almost 1/2 year, yet still tweet (meaning not in any mortal danger... most likely), that's how you alienate an audience - I'm betting a lot of people cancelled their Paypal autobills if there were many left to cancel.

[Pretzel]

20 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

I'm betting there are not many donations coming in anymore. If you're blogging and go completely silent for almost 1/2 year, yet still tweet (meaning not in any mortal danger... most likely), that's how you alienate an audience - I'm betting a lot of people cancelled their Paypal autobills if there were many left to cancel.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's broke. I think he'll most definitely have to pick up an actual job before the 10,000 hours is complete, assuming he even completes it since he hasn't updates the hours since April.

[DrvFrShow]

I wouldn't doubt if he's actually gone back to work already. He can't be living on donations. He can't be living on a "reverse mortgage" otherwise he'll be homeless in a few years. So I would imagine he has had to take a job of some sort and is keeping quiet about it - at least working as a contractor. This also would account for his lack of progress due to lack of time available to play. I think his funds ran out a while ago which is why he can't just pick up and go somewhere for lessons. I don't think he can afford regular quality instruction necessary to accomplish the original goal. He's like the rest of us now. He'll be happy to play to 80. 

[nevets88]

IIRC, I've only skimmed his blog this past year and my memory is fuzzy, he has rental income and income from capital gains. It's a nice life, isn't it?

[newtogolf]

36 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Erroneous, unrealistic planning I'll grant you. I just don't take cheater or liar from that. His discussion in media about current HCP status is less open than I would consider ideal, but like I said probably a 'best foot forward' approach now that he's a little boxed into a corner.

I nor anyone else is outright calling him a cheater or a liar.  I have seen golfers with much less to lose than Dan fudge their scores to lower their handicap.  So while I don't accuse Dan of cheating, I don't rule out that he might have reported lower scores or failed to play his rounds in full accordance of the USGA rules.

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18 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I nor anyone else is outright calling him a cheater or a liar.  I have seen golfers with much less to lose than Dan fudge their scores to lower their handicap.  So while I don't accuse Dan of cheating, I don't rule out that he might have reported lower scores or failed to play his rounds in full accordance of the USGA rules.

Shocking!....unheard of....get out the fine tooth comb for everyone.

[newtogolf]

1 minute ago, collapse said:

Shocking!....unheard of....get out the fine tooth comb for everyone.

Keep the fine tooth comb in your pocket, but let's not pretend that just because someone has an "official" handicap (at least in the US) that it's a real indication of their ability or scores.

[natureboy]

15 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I nor anyone else is outright calling him a cheater or a liar.  I have seen golfers with much less to lose than Dan fudge their scores to lower their handicap.  So while I don't accuse Dan of cheating, I don't rule out that he might have reported lower scores or failed to play his rounds in full accordance of the USGA rules.

Don't rule it out. Also don't rule out the CIA putting drugs in his water to make him play bad on days of tournaments. Sure that's not likely, but how much more than the former? The simplest explanation is that he does not play well in tournaments. Typically cheaters / fabricator types who are focused on 'winning' and 'conning' people would not show an actual regression in improvement. Do Ponzi schemers show declining returns on investment or point to those who invested and lost as a nod to potential risk?

[collapse]

Just now, newtogolf said:

Keep the fine tooth comb in your pocket, but let's not pretend that just because someone has an "official" handicap (at least in the US) that it's a real indication of their ability or scores.

 

2 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Keep the fine tooth comb in your pocket, but let's not pretend that just because someone has an "official" handicap (at least in the US) that it's a real indication of their ability or scores.

No one disagrees....I would say Dan is likely operating well within the understood norms.....shhh

[Lihu]

3 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Don't rule it out. Also don't rule out the CIA putting drugs in his water to make him play bad on days of tournaments. Sure that's not likely, but how much more than the former? The simplest explanation is that he does not play well in tournaments. Typically cheaters / fabricator types who are focused on 'winning' and 'conning' people would not show an actual regression in improvement. Do Ponzi schemers show declining returns on investment or point to those who invested and lost as a nod to potential risk?

The simplest explanation is that he's not as good as he thinks he is and states. . .

[newtogolf]

4 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Don't rule it out. Also don't rule out the CIA putting drugs in his water to make him play bad on days of tournaments. Sure that's not likely, but how much more than the former? The simplest explanation is that he does not play well in tournaments. Typically cheaters / fabricator types who are focused on 'winning' and 'conning' people would not show an actual regression in improvement. Do Ponzi schemers show declining returns on investment or point to those who invested and lost as a nod to potential risk?

Since you're going down this road, then you'd have to agree the key to a good con is to be believable.  If Dan is claiming a 3 handicap and he can't ever break 80 in tournaments then someone is going to question the validity of his handicap (as we have) so a regression in improvement, avoidance of tournaments, or an injury would be possible remedies to help silence the naysayers.

[nevets88]

You can go on debating his "real" handicap forever. It's hard to come upon an everyone agrees conclusion. There's a piece in Golf Magazine about celebrity handicaps taking data from GHIN. Nicklaus is ~2 and some celeb is ~2 as well and the celeb totally admits he's nowhere near as good as JN.

What you can more concretely argue is that any advice Dan Plan gives about the golf swing should be taken with a grain of salt. Or two. But since people do ask him for advice, it just irks me the potential for bad information being given out. Even professional teachers give out bad information, but it just annoys me people look to him for advice when he's really not qualified to give any and he is beholden more so than most to anyone who has given him equipment or provided him services.

[newtogolf]

1 minute ago, nevets88 said:

You can go on debating his "real" handicap forever. It's hard to come upon an everyone agrees conclusion. There's a piece in Golf magazine about celebrity handicaps taking data from GHIN. Nicklaus is ~2 and some celeb is ~2 as well and the celeb totally admits he's nowhere near as good as JN.

What you can more concretely argue is that any advice Dan Plan gives about the golf swing should be taken with a grain of salt. Or two. But since people do ask him for advice, it just irks me the potential for bad information being given out. Even professional teachers give out bad information, but it just annoys me people look to him for advice when he's really not qualified to give any and he is beholden more so than most to anyone who has given him equipment or provided him services.

That's where the handicap comes in.  If someone asks me for advice, I qualify it by stating I'm not a very good golfer.  While I know what a good golf swing consists of (5SK) I don't believe I'm good enough to give advice which is why I read but rarely participate in My Swing threads.

If Dan is giving advice because people believe he's a 2-3 handicap when in reality he's an 8, then he's misrepresenting himself and as you say, potentially giving bad advice.

[DrvFrShow]

9 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Keep the fine tooth comb in your pocket, but let's not pretend that just because someone has an "official" handicap (at least in the US) that it's a real indication of their ability or scores.

I know. I can play four courses locally. I play two of the "more difficult" courses and score lower on them than I do the two easier courses. They're just set up for my style of game. If I played those two courses regularly I'd be a 16 HC, but they don't have active women's clubs because they're long courses, and I like to play with the group, so I play the short easy course much more frequently and for some reason score higher on it due to the location of hazards and stuff like that. Thus my HC is a 21. So what's my real handicap? My official HC is BS.

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

That's where the handicap comes in.  If someone asks me for advice, I qualify it by stating I'm not a very good golfer.  While I know what a good golf swing consists of (5SK) I don't believe I'm good enough to give advice which is why I read but rarely participate in My Swing threads.

If Dan is giving advice because people believe he's a 2-3 handicap when in reality he's an 8, then he's misrepresenting himself and as you say, potentially giving bad advice.

I'm not even sure that a better player necessarily means a better advice giver. There are plenty of 20HC I would take advice from on this site over some of the 8s.

 

[collapse]

6 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

You can go on debating his "real" handicap forever. It's hard to come upon an everyone agrees conclusion. There's a piece in Golf Magazine about celebrity handicaps taking data from GHIN. Nicklaus is ~2 and some celeb is ~2 as well and the celeb totally admits he's nowhere near as good as JN.

What you can more concretely argue is that any advice Dan Plan gives about the golf swing should be taken with a grain of salt. Or two. But since people do ask him for advice, it just irks me the potential for bad information being given out. Even professional teachers give out bad information, but it just annoys me people look to him for advice when he's really not qualified to give any and he is beholden more so than most to anyone who has given him equipment or provided him services.

Dan is perfectly qualified to give  advice.I don't think Dan is charging around dishing out unsolicited advice...people ask him.

[natureboy]

2 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Since you're going down this road, then you'd have to agree the key to a good con is to be believable.  If Dan is claiming a 3 handicap and he can't ever break 80 in tournaments then someone is going to question the validity of his handicap (as we have) so a regression in improvement, avoidance of tournaments, or an injury would be possible remedies to help silence the naysayers.

Sure if there's a real payoff down the line - like with Madoff. The Dan Plan does not appear to me to be a path to riches even though some people wanted to support him a bit. They weren't looking for a return, though.

Dan's saying he is currently a '3' is obviously inaccurate and that's a legitimate critique. Maybe he thinks he is on the path back there (and could well be in the big picture of his time invested vs. progress) - particularly if he gets driver sorted out. He achieved 3 once so possibly that's how he still sees himself...possibly avoiding cognitive dissonance....possibly putting best foot forward. Still doesn't mean he's been lying about his scores and HCP when the tournament gap is relatively easily explained.

If he was a con guy, his HCP would still be trending down and he would not have entered another official tournament. I'm sure he's played rounds with enough players who could attest that there's no way he could break 80 on any course. I expect the local HCP committee would already have looked into it.