The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[BerkeleyRehab]

It is more he isn't being honest with us.

I also think he is incredibly short-funded and needs to keep this charade up to keep the media and investor money flowing in.

The Catch-22 of the more tournaments he plays, the more it will expose that he is just another amateur golfer.  And that PGA Tour talk that generated interested becomes more of a joke.

[Lihu]

Back on topic, I'm sorry to say that my support for Dan is waning. He doesn't seem to be honest with himself. He's always one tweak away, one swing thought away from "figuring it out." Unfortunately, as everyone here knows, that's not how golf works. What he needs to be doing is admitting honestly that his game isn't anywhere close to tournament ready, and the only way to correct that is to hunker down, play more tournaments and continue to be relentless in his practice efforts. Instead, he's flying all over the country for visualization seminars and free Australia trips. Maybe I would do the same if I were in his shoes - who knows? But while I'm not actively hoping that Dan will fail, I can say that I'm no longer rooting for his success either.

This is one of the benefits of being on this site.

[nevets88]

I don't begrudge him going to Australia. If it were me, I wouldn't even think twice about going. Consider it a semi-working vacation.

[jlt73]

Just thinking out loud here... If Dan were truly going for the 10000 hour mark, wouldn't that mean: 1. 10000 hours driver 2. 10000 hours with ever other club 3. 10000 hours Chipping, pitching, putting etc The 10000 hours in golf seem to be way too broad and nowhere near specific enough in the scope of the 10000 hour ordeal

[flopster]

Just thinking out loud here...

If Dan were truly going for the 10000 hour mark, wouldn't that mean:

1. 10000 hours driver

2. 10000 hours with ever other club

3. 10000 hours Chipping, pitching, putting etc

The 10000 hours in golf seem to be way too broad and nowhere near specific enough in the scope of the 10000 hour ordeal

So that would mean 140,000 total hours if he would devote 10,000 to each club, in real terms if he treated it like a full time job then it would take 70 years to put in that many hours, the reality to this whole experiment was he wasn't a good test subject from the start, from the little I know about Dan is that he was never much of an athlete prior to this, his wiki page says he played tennis and ran cross country most likely in high school. IMO I think a real subject should have been a young golfer no older than 18 who has learned the game to some degree but has not really put in the intense hours of practice. I have seen many young players who probably have less than 1000 hours already in and are breaking 80 and some hovering around par, Dan can't break 80 in a tournament but his index was as low as 2.8 prior to those tournament beat downs and he has put in over 5000 hours already which is an extreme amount of practice regardless of where he started at.

[nevets88]

I thought he was going on the dime of some golf company but it's for a TV talk show I think - the title of the episode is "Born or made?" Anyone from Australia here? Can you record or give us a summary of his comments? The show is "Insight", episode to air on the 23rd on SBS ONE. http://ourguide.com.au/searcher.php?region=Perth&date;=23072014&channel;=SBS&show;=&u;=%2Ftv_guide.php%3Fr%3DPerth%26d%3D23072014%26t%3D6

[Pretzel]

I played today for a couple hole with someone who plans on turning pro and playing the mini-tours this fall. It was pretty fun to do, especially since I saw how much differently he played his game. I beat him by two strokes, but he only brought out a 4-iron, a 56* wedge, and a putter and we played from the tips. Watching him hit the long iron (a Titleist 714 CB) was fun since he could hit it from any lie. He hit it buried in the rough and, while it only rose about 10 feet, still was able to move it down 170 yards back into the fairway on a par 5. His short game was what most impressed me though, as he got up and down twice from some difficult spots. We only had time for about 6 holes, but I'm looking forward to the next time we play since he's a co-worker (at least for now) at the golf course.

[Shorty]

PROMO FOR THE SHOW

Dan : "At the age of 30 I quit my career and practised for 10,000 hours to reach PGA Tour level"

Host " How much of your talent is born, and how much is made?"

Other person " I don't think if he did 100,000 hours he'd be an elite golfer"

Hopefully he'll be on the receiving end of some tough love, judging from that.

[nevets88]

PROMO FOR THE SHOW Dan : "At the age of 30 I quit my career and practised for 10,000 hours to reach PGA Tour level" Host " How much of your talent is born, and how much is made?" Other person " I don't think if he did 100,000 hours he'd be an elite golfer" Hopefully he'll be on the receiving end of some tough love, judging from that.

I think he's used to the comment above I'm sure he's heard way worse. He's in too deep and/or his alternatives aren't appealing to him, so he goes on if I had to guess. He could rationalize, hey, I'm in Australia all expenses paid, and I'm on the telly, I must be doing something right. S U P E R F I C I A L. Sorry Dan Plan, that's how I see this whole thing, sort of a long a$$ episode of Portlandia without the self aware funny.

[RandallT]

http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/299701827561/Insight-Born-Or-Made

The episode took a while to load, but I'm watching it right now. My sense is that the whole episode is devoted to just Dan, which I didn't expect. I thought he was one of several people to be profiled.  Prof. Anders Ericsson is also available on a screen (not in person) to explain his theories. When asked if he thinks Dan will make it, Anders sidesteps the quite nicely .

[Lihu]

http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/299701827561/Insight-Born-Or-Made

The episode took a while to load, but I'm watching it right now. My sense is that the whole episode is devoted to just Dan, which I didn't expect. I thought he was one of several people to be profiled.  Prof. Anders Ericsson is also available on a screen (not in person) to explain his theories. When asked if he thinks Dan will make it, Anders sidesteps the quite nicely.

Watched it while running some simulations for work. My only conclusion is "Born."

If Dan happened to have the genetic material to play well, then the 10,000 hours would have made sense. If only he were part of the 1 in 1,000 people with natural golf potential.

Imagine if Bubba Watson decided to practice 10,000 hours?

[RandallT]

I spoke too soon. Dan seemed to be the glue that the show would occasionally return to, but it was most definitely  not about him. The show was not particularly "insightful" but maybe others differ.

Near the end (46minutes or so), they talked about "harmonious passion" vs. "obsessive passion," and they asked Dan if he had the passion for golf that he needed. Harmonious passion is the kind where you feel you are born to do something and it gives you peace and satisfaction when you get in that zone. Obsessive passion is the kind where you are passionate because of external forces, not your own true desires. I thought Dan would have a moment where he realized his passion was more external, worrying about his project and what others think of him. Does he truly have the "harmonious passion," which is what they said is needed.  Dan said he had the passion he needed, but he didn't distinguish which kind. (EDIT: added this last sentence, because I forgot it!)

Overall, the show was a disappointment, and I found it disjointed with a few interesting tidbits.

[Lihu]

I was only disappointed that @Shorty was not invited to talk. I would love to have seen him ask Dan more pertinent questions to golf.

Of course, I just extrapolated golf from the rest of the things.

[RandallT]

I was only disappointed that @Shorty was not invited to talk. I would love to have seen him ask Dan more pertinent questions to golf. Of course, I just extrapolated golf from the rest of the things.

You mean that want Shorty who told Dan he wouldn't be elite even if he spent 100,000 hours? I liked some of that guy's segments about success in tennis. He pointed out that many young players excel later than the youngest prodigies because they learn from failure. As you age, you learn how to deal with setbacks and there is emerging research in that topic. Sounded interesting. But just covered superficially here like everything in the episode mostly.

[Lihu]

You mean that want Shorty who told Dan he wouldn't be elite even if he spent 100,000 hours?

I liked some of that guy's segments about success in tennis. He pointed out that many young players excel later than the youngest prodigies because they learn from failure. As you age, you learn how to deal with setbacks and there is emerging research in that topic. Sounded interesting. But just covered superficially here like everything in the episode mostly.

I would say that Andrew Bully was a realist.

It would have been nice to hear from professional golfers or people who have been intimately associated for many years with golf like @Shorty to discuss specific things that Dan might lack such that 100,000 hours would not be enough for his success.

To me, it was pretty conclusive that they were stating that Dan might not have a chance. Otherwise, they would not have had so many naturally talented people in the show to discuss their opinions. Even the guy who trained the cricket bowler acknowledged that the player did have the natural ability even though it was not immediately apparent as he never bowled before.

If they were discussing "The Dan Plan", then more golf would have been involved. However, the discussion was "Born or Made". I think it was clear that they felt Dan has a low chance of success, which is why they invited him on the show.

[nevets88]

SBS program tl;dr

• Dan: didn't play a complete round until 2 years into plan.
• (To Dr. Ericsson) Do you think he'll make it? I think hat's the wrong question to ask. Question is will he find any attribute that helps him to achieve high levels (paraphrasing).
• What's your handicap? Between 2.6 and 4.
• ATP tennis coach - 100,000 hours, no way.
• Dan: Talent is ability to stay engaged for a long time.
• Considered architecture, music but chose golf.

I like this format. Most shows in the US only bring in a handful of experts. This show, everyone who comments, like dozens, is an expert in his field - prima ballerina, tennis, cricket, aerial skiing, music, running, academics, chess, etc...

BTW, perfect pitch, dunno if everyone can get it, but relative pitch, can be learned, and that's plenty. Perfect pitch is a bit overrated.

[Pretzel]

BTW, perfect pitch, dunno if everyone can get it, but relative pitch, can be learned, and that's plenty. Perfect pitch is a bit overrated.

Perfect pitch is insane, but I will agree that relative pitch is good enough for most musicians. I used to be friends with someone who had perfect pitch and it was kind of cool because you'd play any note, and he'd tell you exactly what note it was and if it was sharp or flat. You could take a tuner to it and he'd be right on the sharp or flat too.

[nevets88]

Perfect pitch is insane, but I will agree that relative pitch is good enough for most musicians. I used to be friends with someone who had perfect pitch and it was kind of cool because you'd play any note, and he'd tell you exactly what note it was and if it was sharp or flat. You could take a tuner to it and he'd be right on the sharp or flat too.

Sorry to go off topic, this is the last you'll hear from me about it, but it is somewhat related. Absolute pitch - just because you have it is no guarantee that you'll become a great musician. It is overrated. OVER friggin' RATED .

The fact that the media trot this out (absolute pitch) when talking about nature vs nurture, talent vs practice, makes the conversation seem more superficial. It's like they all drag out these cliches over and over again and don't bring up fresh ideas. It wows the audience, ooooh, he can stand in the next room and tell me what note I'm playing, just perpetuates a misnomer. And you know what. Ya get old. Ya lose it. Do you ask that grey haired concert pianist if he's got absolute pitch?