Bubba says Tiger is going the "wrong way"

[Zeph]

Here is what he was asked and what he said.

Q. When you see all this news print and TV time dedicated to the coaching carousel, Sean O'Hair has left Sean Foley and whatever the latest flavor is, do you laugh? Is there too much stock put in that, or is it just not your particular way?

BUBBA WATSON: Well, I laugh, but it's just not my way. I'm good friends with Sean Foley, I'm good friends with Hank Haney, with Butch. I know them as people, I know them as friends, but not as I don't ask them for advice.

But it's just not the way I go about it. All of us are good at golf. Sometimes I think some of the great players, they get too wrapped up in the mental part.

You know, I think yeah, I'll just go ahead and say it. I think Tiger is going the wrong way. I think he's so mental right now with his swing. Just go out there and play golf. He used to hit shots, used to bomb it, used to do all that stuff. In 2000 and '97 I think he did pretty good. He won the Masters by 48 shots or whatever he won it by. But I think sometimes he gets carried away on that. And a lot of guys do. The mental part of it, I get carried away sometimes. I think I'm not very good. I complain to Teddy all the time how bad I am at golf. He's like, shut up.

But yeah, the mental game is where it needs to be. But yeah, when you start talking about other people trying to help you with your swing, look at this, look at that, I think they take a step back. So I'm hoping they all get coaches. (Laughter.) Come on, Rickie, get you a coach.

If Bubba ever starts struggling with his swing and missing cuts left and right, I wonder if he'll keep going without an instructor

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Here is what he was asked and what he said.

If Bubba ever starts struggling with his swing and missing cuts left and right, I wonder if he'll keep going without an instructor

As an instructor, where would you even start?  Here is a link that comments on the slo-mo Bubba swing that has quite a few moving parts.

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/thread/44350/bubba-in-slo-mo

[newtogolf]

Bubba and these younger guys might want to see Tiger get back to where he was just so they can challenge him at or close to his best.  They may feel that until they beat him at close to his best they will forever be in his shadow.  Since Tigers car incident / injury / swing coach change he hasn't been close to his old self, except for maybe the Masters.  As competitors I'm sure they want a shot at beating him at his best and get the respect they deserve so they don't have to answer questions about Tigers game every time they win one.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Maybe he just wants his old friend back. The old friend who'd love nothing more than be paired with Bubba in the final round at the The Players and kick his butt for 18 holes. I'd like to see that too, but not because I wish any ill will toward Bubba, but because it would be the only reason I'd spend time indoors watching guys splash balls into the drink on that overrated, overhyped, gravel pit. But that's an entirely different rant.

[henniebogan1966]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Do you watch the Tour regularly? Bubba goes through swing changes mid-swing.

Yes, I do. And your comment is not what we're talking about here. We're talking about a guy with no swing coach and making no swing changes/i.e. overhaul of his swing, actually commenting on a guy, who has been VERY SUCCESSFUL during his career even AFTER swing changes, and doing so as though he actually KNOWS what he's talking about.

He doesn't. He hasn't a clue. In fact, he hasn't a clue what it's like to BE Tiger Woods or even to BE a major champion. What he SHOULD do is work on his own game and build towards winning some majors.  Once he's actually won some majors, and then goes thru a major overhaul of his swing, THEN he can offer his opinion.

[henniebogan1966]

Thanks for posting the actual statement and with that, the notion that we don't know the context of what Bubba said is now gone. CLEARLY HE made the CHOICE to go out and say something regarding Tiger withOUT being prompted. HE, Bubba Watson, made that choice. So he can now suffer due criticism.

Hey Bubba! Try winning some majors and stop worrying about other players and swing coaches. Spend more time on your game.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by henniebogan1966

Yes, I do. And your comment is not what we're talking about here. We're talking about a guy with no swing coach and making no swing changes/i.e. overhaul of his swing, actually commenting on a guy, who has been VERY SUCCESSFUL during his career even AFTER swing changes, and doing so as though he actually KNOWS what he's talking about.

He doesn't. He hasn't a clue. In fact, he hasn't a clue what it's like to BE Tiger Woods or even to BE a major champion. What he SHOULD do is work on his own game and build towards winning some majors.  Once he's actually won some majors, and then goes thru a major overhaul of his swing, THEN he can offer his opinion.

Since Tiger's "return" Bubba has won 3 tournaments and lost in playoff in a major (a playoff he arguably should have won).

So no, he doesn't have any major wins under his belt. But even though his career pale in comparison to Tiger's, I'm gonna put more stock in his opinion on winning professional golf tournaments, contending in major championships, and possibly even what's best for Tiger Woods,  than a random anonymous golf forum poster.

[henniebogan1966]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Since Tiger's "return" Bubba has won 3 tournaments and lost in playoff in a major (a playoff he arguably should have won).

So no, he doesn't have any major wins under his belt. But even though his career pale in comparison to Tiger's, I'm gonna put more stock in his opinion on winning professional golf tournaments, contending in major championships, and possibly even what's best for Tiger Woods,  than a random anonymous golf forum poster.

But I'm not offering an opinion on Tiger's swing changes. I'm simply saying that Bubba needs to worry about his own game and not that of Tiger.  I can only look at the results, which is what matters most. Results! 0 majors for Bubba. When Bubba goes thru what Tiger has with respect to swing changes, and has had post-changes success like Tiger has, then he can offer all the opinions he wants. Until then, he should probably focus more on his own game. Results would say his way is far less successful than those of Tiger.

[henniebogan1966]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Bubba and these younger guys might want to see Tiger get back to where he was just so they can challenge him at or close to his best.  They may feel that until they beat him at close to his best they will forever be in his shadow.  Since Tigers car incident / injury / swing coach change he hasn't been close to his old self, except for maybe the Masters.  As competitors I'm sure they want a shot at beating him at his best and get the respect they deserve so they don't have to answer questions about Tigers game every time they win one.

In a manner of speaking, most guys on tour today will be in his shadow most of, if not all of, their careers as most of them will never achieve what Tiger has. I'd speculate that well over 90% of those playing on the tour today will NOT reach the goals that Tiger already has. Heck, I'd go so far as to say 98-99% might not? I mean, we're talking about a global game now in which any one player would have to win AT LEAST 14 majors and 71 PGA Tour wins. Not overall, but PGA Tour wins. Does anyone here REALLY think anyone on tour right now has THAT potential? I don't see it. I see guys who might get double digit wins, and maybe even 5-8 majors. But it's very unlikely we'll ever see another player reach the milestones that Tiger has.

That's just the reality.

[newtogolf]

I'm not sure even if Tiger was playing at his best right now he'd have the same level of success he did in the past. As you said, the Tour is different now, and the caliber of players is better. Tiger for a good part of his career was one of a few athletes at best on tour, now they are almost all athletes with intensive workout programs. I'm a fan of Tiger as a golfer, not so much as a person. I think he was one of the all-time best golfers, but to say no one could ever surpass his accomplishments is a bit short sighted IMO - as I'm sure they said that about Jack, Arnold, Seve, Jones and Hogan too

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by henniebogan1966

But I'm not offering an opinion on Tiger's swing changes. I'm simply saying that Bubba needs to worry about his own game and not that of Tiger.  I can only look at the results, which is what matters most. Results! 0 majors for Bubba. When Bubba goes thru what Tiger has with respect to swing changes, and has had post-changes success like Tiger has, then he can offer all the opinions he wants. Until then, he should probably focus more on his own game. Results would say his way is far less successful than those of Tiger.

Guys like Tom Watson, Ben Hogan (now I see what you did there), Seve, and a few other who dominated for > a decade (heck, throw in Trevino, Faldo, Miller, Strange, and even Tom Kite for agument's sake) started their decline once the long one-putts stopped dropping and they started seeking perfection with their swing.

Tiger's swing totally rocks right now, and he just needs to sink some bombs to get his mojo back. That could happen this month, next month, next year, or never. Unfortunately the debate about his swing changes will rage on until his putter backs up his nice approach shots.

[Gioguy21]

yo hennie crogan, relax. it's free speech. and obtw, who's won more recently...tiger or bubba....who's swing isn't his reason for loosing...whoopdie do i get it tiger's basically jesus to you and he walks on water but lets face it, he's got more demons than the amityville house. until his swing is back to even close to what it used to be, he's still tiger woods just...post god. he's broken right now and has been for awhile. let bubba say what he wants, he knows what he said and he knows he'll get backlash. bennie the sooner you, the media and anyone else out there realizes that RIGHT NOW tiger is a top 20 at best winner on the tour right now in any given tournament, while many if not most others are playing better golf than the major winning, fear inducing, intimidating, lady-tappin, give it all on a broken leg, tiger of old.

[shades9323]

Originally Posted by henniebogan1966

Thanks for posting the actual statement and with that, the notion that we don't know the context of what Bubba said is now gone. CLEARLY HE made the CHOICE to go out and say something regarding Tiger withOUT being prompted. HE, Bubba Watson, made that choice. So he can now suffer due criticism.

Hey Bubba! Try winning some majors and stop worrying about other players and swing coaches. Spend more time on your game.

Maybe you should spend more time on your game and not criticizing Bubba since you clearly have no idea what Bubba is talking about.  Unless of course you are on the tour and have more victories than Bubba...

[muggs]

Folks...Tiger is done. He is going to win more tournaments, and perhaps a Major or two, but the days of him dominating...or even the days of all you lemmings thinking he's the only thing that matters on the PGA or over. Period. Case closed.

He'll obviously still go down as one of the all-time greats, but 30 years from now, when people talk about him it's going to be a 'what could have been' conversation. Not only did he screw up his mental game (his biggest strenght), but he is getting older, he has physical issues with his knee, and most importantly...there is a crop of EXCELLENT young talent out there who is no longer intimidated by him.

Let's move on...there are other players worth watching on tour right now.

[iacas]

What could have been? If his career ended today he'd still have 14 majors and 71 wins. That's not a case of "what could have been" by any stretch of the imagination, because you can't answer the question: what could have been IF WHAT? What would have been different?

As much as the Tiger fanboys go overboard, the Tiger haters go at least that much the opposite direction more frequently.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by iacas

What could have been? If his career ended today he'd still have 14 majors and 71 wins. That's not a case of "what could have been" by any stretch of the imagination, because you can't answer the question: what could have been IF WHAT? What would have been different?

As much as the Tiger fanboys go overboard, the Tiger haters go at least that much the opposite direction more frequently.

There are very few players where "what if" comes up.

Bear with me, but I've wondered the following:

"What would Curtis Strange's legacy look like if he hadn't been so stubborn by avoiding the British Open, considering it was perfect for his game and he did at one time hold the scoring record at St Andrews?"

"What if Greg Norman didn't have a habit of blocking his approach long and right on the 72nd hole?"

"What would Freddie have done if he was a better clutch putter and didn't hurt his back in the early 90s?"

"What would Ben Crenshaw have accomplished with Tom Kite's wedge game?"

"What would Vijay Singh's career record look like if he'd got his game together 10 years earlier?"

"What would Tom Weiskopf record look like without Jack Nicklaus?"

"How many guys would have a few more majors and a dozen or so more wins (e.g. Ernie Els) without Tiger Woods?"

"How many hours would I have spent watching youtube videos if Tiger Woods had a chance to play Seve, Tom, Jack, etc in their primes - that would have been cool - could someone please make a Playstation version of this?"

[SpacklersEdge]

iacas,

Agreed, he is already #3 in PGA tour wins, #2 in majors.  He also has 38 Euro tour wins, 2 on the Japan tour, 1 on the Asian tour, and 16 WGC events.  AT WORST, he will be #2 in PGA tour wins, and remain #2 in majors, and still have more "other" wins than most PGA guys will have top 10's.

Why does everyone need to take a thread and derail it into a pissing contest over who knows more about what.  It's OPINION.  Do you think Tiger is going in the wrong direction?  Do you think he should have stayed with a previous coach?  Do you think he will be better with this coach?

It's not a Bubba bashing thread, or a Tiger bashing thread, get over yourselves.

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

There are very few players where "what if" comes up.

Bear with me, but I've wondered the following:

"What would Curtis Strange's legacy look like if he hadn't been so stubborn by avoiding the British Open, considering it was perfect for his game and he did at one time hold the scoring record at St Andrews?"

"What if Greg Norman didn't have a habit of blocking his approach long and right on the 72nd hole?"

"What would Freddie have done if he was a better clutch putter and didn't hurt his back in the early 90s?"

"What would Ben Crenshaw have accomplished with Tom Kite's wedge game?"

"What would Vijay Singh's career record look like if he'd got his game together 10 years earlier?"

"What would Tom Weiskopf record look like without Jack Nicklaus?"

"How many guys would have a few more majors and a dozen or so more wins (e.g. Ernie Els) without Tiger Woods?"

"How many hours would I have spent watching youtube videos if Tiger Woods had a chance to play Seve, Tom, Jack, etc in their primes - that would have been cool - could someone please make a Playstation version of this?"

My biggest what if is what if Ben Hogan never got in the bus accident?  The guy played 36 on the final day to win the US Open at Merion a mere 16 months later. They said that he would never walk again and he won. We will never know how many majors he could of won because of that.  Earlier in his career the what if was the war and travel to Britain.

I wonder if Tigergate will have the same weight on Tiger's career?  Even if he never wins again, no one can take away what he has done.

Now with all that has been said, I don't think Bubba is losing any sleep over what he said, and again, Bubba is Bubba and that is why people love him.

[jamo]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

"How many hours would I have spent watching youtube videos if Tiger Woods had a chance to play Seve, Tom, Jack, etc in their primes - that would have been cool - could someone please make a Playstation version of this?"

Off topic, I know, but if you have an older console, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2005 had Tiger (obviously), Jack, Palmer, Hogan, Player, and Seve.