TEE IT FORWARD

[goblue107501]

I think a lot of the responsibility should fall on the course to provide the information and make the recommendation.  If nothing else just make a small sign and put it at the first tee and on the scorecard.  Just something simple that says "if your handicap/average is 'X', you should play 'Y' tees.  One course I play a couple times a year does this and it is very handy.  From the discussion here, the problem seems to lie with the recreational golfer that doesn't know any better.  If they were educated, they would probably start to figure it out.  Those of us that play quite a bit and for many years know where we should be playing from.

Personally, I prefer the 6500-6700 yard range.  The course I play at the most is 6000 from the white.  I have played from there many times and have had good days and bad days.  I much prefer playing the blues at 6500.  There is more stress and more focus needed, which makes me concentrate a bit harder.  From the whites I can get by with a 4-iron or hybrid off the tee and still be hitting a wedge into the green.  No par-4s are over 400 yards and all the par-5s are reachable in 2.  It just gets boring to play that way.  There is little thought and strategy that is needed.  One of my best rounds ever came at that course from the blacks at 7066 yards.  I remember being very focused the whole round.  I had to be, there was no room for error.

The really sad thing is that the average weekend hacker doesn't realize that the game would be so much more enjoyable from regular men's tee box.  The ego just gets in the way I guess.

[bplewis24]

I believe the best way to speed up play is to allow errant drivers the option of completing the hole from whatever fairway their tee shot ends up on to that same green.  Tee off on #1 and end up in the 18th fairway?  Finish that hole on #18, take your score of 3 and be done with it!

It will encourage everybody to swing for the fences (literally?) with their driver without having to worry about being further from the green than they started from off the tee box.

Brandon

[mdl]

I think a big issue is the labeling of tees and the number of tees.  A lot of the courses I play have only red, white, and blue tees, with the reds clearly labeled women's tees on the card.  Most of the men who hit it pretty short or are not very good I've played with do actually tee off from the whites, but on many of those courses even the whites are too long for someone who drives it carry+roll at 200 or 210 or who can hit it 240-250 but plays off a 18+ HC and rarely both hits it that far and hits it in the fairway.

A lot of these courses have the white tees maybe 10-30 yards in front of the blues on most holes, but then the red/women's tees are clearly separated on a different tee box every time and usually 2-3 times further in front of the whites than the whites are in front of the blues.  I've only seen a few very elderly male golfers play from the women's tees.

I know it would be a burden on the course staff, but I think some of this problem could be solved by having more like 4-5 sets of tees.  Maybe something like gold, red, white, blue, black, with the gold or red tees labeled women's, and the white tees making the course short enough that a 20 HC who drives it 215 can play from there without significantly slowing the pace of play.

Also I think more courses should do more to encourage playing from the right tees.  Simply a big sign at the first tee that says:

Men:

0-5 HC:   Black tees

6-10 HC: Blue tees

11-20:     White tees

20+:       Red tees

Women:

0-10 HC:  Red tees

11+ HC:   Gold tees

Juniors under 14:  Gold tees

Or something like that would go a long way.  Even better, more courses should have a marshall posted at the 1st tee whose job is not just to get people off in the right order and get people to tee off as soon as the group in front clears but also to ask HC or driving distance and enforce tee selection.  I've never seen that done at the public courses I play, not even the couple more expensive ones I've played ($75-$100 per round range)

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by mdl

I think a big issue is the labeling of tees and the number of tees.  A lot of the courses I play have only red, white, and blue tees, with the reds clearly labeled women's tees on the card.  Most of the men who hit it pretty short or are not very good I've played with do actually tee off from the whites, but on many of those courses even the whites are too long for someone who drives it carry+roll at 200 or 210 or who can hit it 240-250 but plays off a 18+ HC and rarely both hits it that far and hits it in the fairway.

A lot of these courses have the white tees maybe 10-30 yards in front of the blues on most holes, but then the red/women's tees are clearly separated on a different tee box every time and usually 2-3 times further in front of the whites than the whites are in front of the blues.  I've only seen a few very elderly male golfers play from the women's tees.

I know it would be a burden on the course staff, but I think some of this problem could be solved by having more like 4-5 sets of tees.  Maybe something like gold, red, white, blue, black, with the gold or red tees labeled women's, and the white tees making the course short enough that a 20 HC who drives it 215 can play from there without significantly slowing the pace of play.

Also I think more courses should do more to encourage playing from the right tees.  Simply a big sign at the first tee that says:

Men:

0-5 HC:   Black tees

6-10 HC: Blue tees

11-20:     White tees

20+:       Red tees

Women:

0-10 HC:  Red tees

11+ HC:   Gold tees

Juniors under 14:  Gold tees

Or something like that would go a long way.  Even better, more courses should have a marshall posted at the 1st tee whose job is not just to get people off in the right order and get people to tee off as soon as the group in front clears but also to ask HC or driving distance and enforce tee selection.  I've never seen that done at the public courses I play, not even the couple more expensive ones I've played ($75-$100 per round range)

In your example, the ranges could include index and average driving distance (or maybe 5-iron distance). Some men probably need to play from the Golds and some women (like 4 at my course) could play from the Whites.

[ochmude]

I just discovered why I never see anyone play from blue or black tees.  The muni I typically play doesn't even have them, just red and white.  Funny, I never even noticed.

[ochmude]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

In your example, the ranges could include index and average driving distance (or maybe 5-iron distance). Some men probably need to play from the Golds and some women (like 4 at my course) could play from the Whites.

It would need to include both index and average driving distance, or something other than just index.  Since this topic is focused on getting the weekend hacker to play from appropriate tees, I think it needs to be pointed out that the weekend hacker almost never has a handicap and very likely doesn't even have much of an understanding of what one is or how to get one.  I first took up golf 14 years ago, and I just learned about handicaps 2 months ago.  If a starters started asking golfers what their handicap is in order to place them on the correct tees, most are going to shrug their shoulders and say "I dunno."

[andycook]

If the golfer can't state a handicap then they default to the red/gold.

If my handicap is a 30 what is to stop me from lying or those that claim better handicaps than they reall have?  Does the marshal watch the play on the first tee to catch the liars/vanity handicappers?

[ochmude]

Originally Posted by andycook

If the golfer can't state a handicap then they default to the red/gold.

If my handicap is a 30 what is to stop me from lying or those that claim better handicaps than they reall have?  Does the marshal watch the play on the first tee to catch the liars/vanity handicappers?

In high school I lived next to a golf course and played daily during summer vacation.  I always shot in the 90's and could get into the 80's on a good day, all playing from the whites.  I had no clue what handicaps were about, though.  I honestly thought that was just something that had to do with tournaments and didn't realize that any golfer could get one.  Now granted, averaging in the 85-95 range isn't mind-blowing golf, but if someone can break 90 from the whites is it really fair to force them to play from the reds just because they don't know about handicaps?  I don't, personally.  That's why I think a backup metric should be used as well.  Driving distance or 5i distance would be good, possibly as sean_miller suggested.  Back then I didn't know what a handicap was or how to get one, but I knew all my yardages and could answer that question easily and without hesitation if asked.  Actually, I'd say that 5i distance might be a great question to ask.  If a golfer doesn't know how far they hit a 5i, they should default to the reds, because knowing your club yardages is pretty much square one for playing even remotely decent golf.

[Paradox]

the whole idea of making certain tees mandatory based on handicap is just laughable, really.  How would a course enforce this?  Are they going to have someone stationed at every tee box? Are they going to assign cards based on the tees that you have to play so you can show them at every tee?  Are they going to have a marshall or marshalls with tee sheets and names and drive around constantly asking who you are and making sure you tee off from the correct tees? Are they going to turn away business because someone doesn't want to play from the reds in a time where golf needs all the business it can get?  Are they going to split up groups of friends or intimidate the 4 time a year golfers? This is a cost vs. benefit thing and no course would take on the cost to do this because it far outweighs the benefit.  People are gonna play whatever tees they want to and theres nothing really to stop them.  I don't worry about anyone elses game on the course and I don't care if they make themselves miserable by playing wrong tees.  As long as my game isn't affected by what you're doing on the course then by all means, go for it(just for clarity, this doesn't mean tear stuff up and or be a fool on the course in any way)

[bplewis24]

Yeah, handicapped based tee requirements is impractical.  However, it would be a nice guideline or suggestion.  In most cases, it would be appropriate.

Brandon

[act0fgod]

Others have indicated golfers will continue to play the wrong tees for a variety of reasons and I agree. I think the biggest reason is seen in the following advertisement (sorry for the low quality best I could find). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPiBFaTWqIs When I saw this commercial I immediately thought the USGA must love this. I also like the idea of tees corresponding to handicaps but there are problems as previously mentioned.  Personally I'm not currently keeping a handicap and I'd hate to head out on a trip during vacation to be told on the first tee that I have to play from the reds/whites (depending on the course) because I can't prove my index.

I kind of disagree with RayG though about playing the back tees to inflate your handicap.  When I was keeping an index I always found that if I wanted to lower my handicap I would play from the back tees.  I’d typically shoot the same scores but the rating and slope would decrease my handicap.  That being said I guess it could be the case for the dead straight but shorter low handicap folks where their score would be increased dramatically by moving back a few yards each hole.

[ghalfaire]

I live on a golf course near a tee box and enjoy taking a break sometimes while working in the yard or sitting in the spa and just watching the players tee off.  It is a reasonably long par 4 (390+ from the tips) and is interesting to see who tees off where.  It is a narrow fairway with difficult roughs on both sides and OB on both sides, so it isn't an easy hole.  There are usually about 1 or 2 foursomes (men) out of 10 teeing from the tips (a casual observation not hard data).  Out of those teeing from the back tees I would guess maybe one in every 8 golfers actually hits the fairway and probably 2 or 3 of the 8 are OB, usually right.  The rest are in the rough with no chance of getting a GIR.  But having said that there seldom is a wait at the tee so I don't see where they are slowing the game down any (those that are OB mostly just drop near where the ball went out and a few in the rough "fix" their lies and move on).   So while I agree with the OP that the game is more fun if you can score better I don't personally see where the golfer that like to abuse themselves necessarily slow the game down.  I personally try to play tees somewhere between 6100 and 6400 yards but also pay attention to the slope.  We have some "target" courses in the Phoenix area that have ~5900 yards tees with 125+ slopes and the front tee are enough course to make it interesting. This is especially true given you can ruin a club in the desert although many of these courses have a local rule that allow you to drop back on the grass with one stroke penalty (which many people would do even if there were not such a local rule).

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by act0fgod

. . . I kind of disagree with RayG though about playing the back tees to inflate your handicap.  When I was keeping an index I always found that if I wanted to lower my handicap I would play from the back tees.  I’d typically shoot the same scores but the rating and slope would decrease my handicap.  That being said I guess it could be the case for the dead straight but shorter low handicap folks where their score would be increased dramatically by moving back a few yards each hole.

That's my experience too. I had a few low differentials last year that were total BS. This year I'm not playing anywhere that promotes a vanity cap.

[RayG]

I kind of disagree with RayG though about playing the back tees to inflate your handicap.  When I was keeping an index I always found that if I wanted to lower my handicap I would play from the back tees.  I’d typically shoot the same scores but the rating and slope would decrease my handicap.  That being said I guess it could be the case for the dead straight but shorter low handicap folks where their score would be increased dramatically by moving back a few yards each hole.

That might be true for many local type of courses where the 'tips' are not buried across the road and over the gully from the forward tees, adding a PW/9I distance to the hole. I've seen it happen that folks will find a course that allows them to pad the #'s, and take advantage of those tees. much to the displeasure of others, I would add. Basing a tee box on Handicaps or driver yardages is moot- people will say what they want to play where they want. As I mentioned in the earlier post, I don't care how bad you might be OR how good you THINK you are- just keep it moving! Yes, everyone has a bad hole now and then, but that tee shot that sliced into the trees at 100mph and 100ft off the ground is not gonna be found. Sure, you have your 5 minutes, but this ain't the tour. Play your provisional or mulligan and suck up that $2 and play on. If you tend to slice a lot and spend 5 minutes on every hole looking for it, you just cost the rest of us an hour waiting. I don't think I've spent more than 30 seconds looking for a ball in 30 years. I get a line on where it went, tee up a provi, take a cursory look. If I find it, great- if not, I'm hitting 3 or whatever from the provi. For one thing, I spend less time thinking about what a crappy shot I just hit and I can focus on trying to get close to save a par. Don't bother with 'honors' for the most part- let the shortest hitter go first and follow that with the next, etc. I've come upon countless groups where the last guy to go is the shortest hitter and many times the group ahead is putting out. Just because the "Pro from Dover" won the hole and can hit a drive 300 yds (downwind, on his best day, AND when he finds a fairway) doesn't mean you can't let the 'little dog' go first. And believe me pal, I don't care HOW much you paid for that Unobtanium Driver.. you aren't gonna hit them with a cannon at 400 yds. or even 300. Be realistic about how far you hit those "perfect" drives. If you play a course more than twice there should be plenty of landmarks to judge how far they're out there and you don't have to worry about 'upsetting them' or feeding your own ego. A few years ago, on a local 9 hole track. We were standing on the 1st tee waiting for the group in the fairway. The starter called out "Hey! go ahead". the group was 200 yds out ( I know that because the left bunker is 190 out) . "I don't think so..", I replied. "Go!"... so I went... right over their heads. I told the starter: YOU go out there and tell them what happened and apologize to them, then come back and apologize to me for assuming I couldn't reach them.

[andycook]

Still flawed.  If asked for the distance a person gets with a specific club is still subject to vanity distancing.  People tend to inflate the distance they hit their clubs.

Quote:

That's why I think a backup metric should be used as well.  Driving distance or 5i distance would be good, possibly as sean_miller suggested.

[j_moo]

Played with a few women who can't hit the ball more than 100 yards, but they were fast.  Hit, cart, hit, no practice swing no pre shot routine, makes me nervous just watching them.  Then again, they don't worry about club, wind, lie, etc., or even read the green.  We probably play a par 4 in about the same amount of time but I would take more time per shot.  So handicap doesn't really indicate how fast you play, other than perhaps how often you have to look for your ball.

I also believe much of slow play is due to courses overbooking tee time.  I've never been on a well space course that's slow.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Paradox

the whole idea of making certain tees mandatory based on handicap is just laughable, really.

That's not what TEE IT FORWARD is about. It's a suggestion, and one that'll last like two weeks at that.

[senorchipotle]

Slow play is not caused by people playing too far back, it's cause by people playing too slow.