Idea to Get People to "Tee it Forward" More Often

[The_Pharaoh]

  aschroeger said:

Originally Posted by aschroeger

But, if those doub, trip bogeys and +4's happen because of putting, you're really not exceeding time.  Time is lost 40 yards off the side of the fairway, in the farmers field.  Or by those golfers who insist on spending 5-10 minutes fishing balls out of the river with there 30 foot ball retrievers.

You can 3-4 put all day and it only adds a few minutes.

You are kidding right? When I play with people that 3-4 putt all day they take FOREVER on the greens. They usually don't know which is their ball. Then they don't know who's away. Then they spend ages lining up the putt and trying to figure out the break. Then they have 3-4 practice strokes. Then they hit coming up 15 ft short or belting it 15 ft passed the hole. They then mark the ball again because they've seen it on TV. They look up to find out who's away. They then repeat the process until they inevitably leave it a foot from the hole. Do they then finish the putt off quickly or mark the ball again? No prizes for guessing here. It's bad enough when I'm playing with someone like this, but imagine this scenario when it's the fourball you're playing behind!

[iacas]

  The_Pharaoh said:

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

You are kidding right?

I think we've already established the fact that golfers in Spain shooting 120+ on average suck and drawing any correlation to the average golfer in the U.S. is pretty pointless.

There are a lot of threads in which you can participate. This may not be one of them. Different country, different continent, different problems.

[The_Pharaoh]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

I think we've already established the fact that golfers in Spain shooting 120+ on average suck and drawing any correlation to the average golfer in the U.S. is pretty pointless.

There are a lot of threads in which you can participate. This may not be one of them. Different country, different continent, different problems.

If you guys are shooting between 90-100 and still taking over 5 hours to play a round of golf, you should be ashamed of yourselves.

[iacas]

  The_Pharaoh said:

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

If you guys are shooting between 90-100 and still taking over 5 hours to play a round of golf, you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Thanks. We'll get right on that.

[sean_miller]

  The_Pharaoh said:

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

If you guys are shooting between 90-100 and still taking over 5 hours to play a round of golf, you should be ashamed of yourselves.

We are ashamed of ourselves - hence the coming up with initiatives meant to speed things up.

[B-Con]

I think your ideas would work. I think you're right that the majority would be honest -- there would be dissenters, but they'd be the minority, the system would still work. I think that the "discount" approach is also the way to go -- you get the illusion of appearing as a $55 course while only charging the bulk of your customers $48 or so. :-P The regulars would probably wise-up to it (you can't keep customers disillusioned for forever), but the goal is just to avoid putting people off in the beginning. One idea: Maybe offer large one-time discounts. Like a 20% off coupon for the first round each year that you complete in under 3:15, or something like that. [edit] The reason for this would be to help keep a persistent edge in people's minds to always keep up the pace. If they're on pace for 3:45, why not dangle a bit of bait for them to come in at 3:30? Putting that incentive out there helps ensure that there are always a few people on the course who are doing their absolute best to play as fast as possible. [/edit] One relatively minor point: You would have to extend this to people who pay monthly/yearly memberships. Like at my local course I pay $45/month and get unlimited range balls plus free greens fees, meaning I only pay the flat cart fee no matter when I want to play. Those kinds of programs are really important for regular golfers, and I think you could adjust it for this type of idea by staggering the fees depending on what tees you want to consider your "baseline". Eg, maybe I pay $45/month for the 3 tees and then use the 4 tees when you can get upgraded. If I wanted to play the 4 tees without an upgrade, they'd just add the fee at the counter to the cart fee. If I wanted to make the 4 tees my baseline, I could pay $50/month or so. It would make the system a little more complicated, but if you didn't take care to keep the longer tees a bit more expensive for everybody then you'd lose the point of the system. One implementation point: You may have to put hour restrictions on when discounts/points/credit/whatever can be earned. Who really cares how fast players play during off hours? I go out during super-twilight hours and zip through the course practically uninhibited. I'm sure the clubhouse wouldn't want to financially thank me for my speedy play that evening. You'd probably want to set hours that your tee time has to fall between in order to qualify for the discounts. Finally, perhaps an addendum to your idea: I've had the idea of rewarding faster players with points toward free balls, and that would probably fit well into your scheme. My theory is that the people who spend the most time looking for balls are usually the people who play cheaper balls. I'm picturing the weekend hacker spending 4 minutes looking for their $1 balls 4 or 5 times a round. Few things are as pure a waste of time as looking for balls, because you often hold up your entire group for the time you spend looking beyond a full minute. So give people finishing on time points toward balls, and maybe the hacker playing cheap balls will get a free sleeve every two or three rounds and thus feel less pressured to go looking for balls that he doesn't really expect to find anyway. Maybe combine the points with your proposed discount program, or something. Just make it clear that for those playing on-time they can easily get some cheap balls every so often. Those playing more $3 balls probably lose them less often. If someone is losing a lot of more expensive balls then they won't be incentive's by such a plan, but then there's probably nothing you can offer them that's worth their while if they lose $15 of balls per round. :-P And hey, maybe the 10 HDCP playing ProV1s can save up for a free dozen at the end of the year or something. It's a half-decent way to encourage long-term customer loyalty.

[iacas]

In the end, it's just an idea. I might show this to the guys up at Whispering Woods. See what they have to say about it.

A lot of it is speculation and guessing (not the retail science parts... just how much effect it may have). Maybe I'm wrong or maybe this will shave an average of 12.3 seconds off the average round time. Who knows?

[mdl]

I love #2.

For #1 I don't like it just because it would penalize me for being a pretty good golfer who's quite long off the tee for an amateur.  Even being very long for an amateur, on hard, tight courses I still don't play the back tees cause I'm not consistent enough to do that on those kinds of courses.

But there are some easier, more open munis I play where I'd be really pissed to have to pay $15 extra to play from tees where I'm not hitting 4i or 2h to set up 9i-SW approaches on every par 4.

[The_Pharaoh]

  sean_miller said:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

We are ashamed of ourselves - hence the coming up with initiatives meant to speed things up.

I know, it was my weak attempt at humour.

[newtogolf]

What if the price from the longest tee was the price of a round currently, and the shorter tees were discounted?  You then wouldn't be penalized but those of us that played the shorter course would receive a discount for not utilizing the entire course.

  mdl said:

Originally Posted by mdl

For #1 I don't like it just because it would penalize me for being a pretty good golfer who's quite long off the tee for an amateur.  Even being very long for an amateur, on hard, tight courses I still don't play the back tees cause I'm not consistent enough to do that on those kinds of courses.

But there are some easier, more open munis I play where I'd be really pissed to have to pay $15 extra to play from tees where I'm not hitting 4i or 2h to set up 9i-SW approaches on every par 4.

[aschroeger]

  newtogolf said:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

What if the price from the longest tee was the price of a round currently, and the shorter tees were discounted?  You then wouldn't be penalized but those of us that played the shorter course would receive a discount for not utilizing the entire course.

There is no way that could be policed.  What would stop someone from teeing off from 3 boxes closer on hole #1 in view of the clubhouse but move to the whites or blues on hole #2?  People would take advantage to save a buck.

[newtogolf]

It's already been suggested that the carts be outfitted with different color flags that indicate the appropriate tee box they should play from or use GPS tracking on the carts.  Ultimately golf is supposed to be a gentlemans game.  What currently prevents someone from finishing the 18th hole and then going back to 10 to play another 9?

  aschroeger said:

Originally Posted by aschroeger

There is no way that could be policed.  What would stop someone from teeing off from 3 boxes closer on hole #1 in view of the clubhouse but move to the whites or blues on hole #2?  People would take advantage to save a buck.

[iacas]

  newtogolf said:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

What currently prevents someone from finishing the 18th hole and then going back to 10 to play another 9?

Their wives?

Just kidding. Good point.

[Leftygolfer]

I like anyway to speed up the pace of play.   I think the idea of an upcharge for the back tees is good.  If you give people an incentive to play faster, they will.  And the golf course will make up whatever they lose in discounts b/c people want quick golf.  I think it would be a very popular course.-

[mdl]

  newtogolf said:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

What if the price from the longest tee was the price of a round currently, and the shorter tees were discounted?  You then wouldn't be penalized but those of us that played the shorter course would receive a discount for not utilizing the entire course.

I see what you're getting at, and I might feel differently if I was a short hitter, a worse player, or a woman, but it still doesn't really seem fair to me.  I get the motivation of encouraging people (men) to play from maybe one tee shorter than their ego tells them to, but why should women or guys who are 5'6" get to play for significantly less than me just because I'm 6'2" and hit the ball far for an amateur?

Also, only considering you, what if you improve?  I, at least, am on a pretty tight budget these days, and I have an exact $ amount budgeted each month for golf.  Say you're in that situation too, but you've been working really hard and have improved a lot, gaining significant distance and dramatically improving your accuracy off the tee.  Now you want to move back a set of tees or two, but you have to choose between being able to afford one less round per month and playing much less enjoyable golf, where you never take any of the woods out of your bag and have to hit a mid iron off the tee to ever get to try hitting a par 4 green with a mid iron instead of a wedge.  I'm exaggerating a little bit obviously, but you get my point.

Do you think that's fair?

[x129]

It is as far as anything in life. Think of it as dollars per yard. You want to play 7000 yards. You pay more than the guy that is playing 6000.  Is it a good idea. I don't know. Heck I think it might even slow play done. I could see people going I was going to play tee 4 but for 2 bucks more I get to play the long ones.

Want to eliminate slow play? Charge by the hour. Or give each cart a pace light. It changes color so the whole course can tell if  your a slug.

  mdl said:

Originally Posted by mdl

I see what you're getting at, and I might feel differently if I was a short hitter, a worse player, or a woman, but it still doesn't really seem fair to me.  I get the motivation of encouraging people (men) to play from maybe one tee shorter than their ego tells them to, but why should women or guys who are 5'6" get to play for significantly less than me just because I'm 6'2" and hit the ball far for an amateur?

Also, only considering you, what if you improve?  I, at least, am on a pretty tight budget these days, and I have an exact $ amount budgeted each month for golf.  Say you're in that situation too, but you've been working really hard and have improved a lot, gaining significant distance and dramatically improving your accuracy off the tee.  Now you want to move back a set of tees or two, but you have to choose between being able to afford one less round per month and playing much less enjoyable golf, where you never take any of the woods out of your bag and have to hit a mid iron off the tee to ever get to try hitting a par 4 green with a mid iron instead of a wedge.  I'm exaggerating a little bit obviously, but you get my point.

Do you think that's fair?

[baseballfrk8998]

  x129 said:

Originally Posted by x129

It is as far as anything in life. Think of it as dollars per yard. You want to play 7000 yards. You pay more than the guy that is playing 6000.  Is it a good idea. I don't know. Heck I think it might even slow play done. I could see people going I was going to play tee 4 but for 2 bucks more I get to play the long ones.

Want to eliminate slow play? Charge by the hour. Or give each cart a pace light. It changes color so the whole course can tell if  your a slug.

Now that's an idea! Hahaha. Make it shut their cart off when they get too slow. That'd be great!

[The_Pharaoh]

  baseballfrk8998 said:

Originally Posted by baseballfrk8998

Now that's an idea! Hahaha. Make it shut their cart off when they get too slow. That'd be great!

I like that idea too, like at the fun fair playing dodgems! After 4 hrs or 4.5 hours your golf cart shuts down.

I love the approach in Scotland, if you take more than 4 hours the ranger comes over and kicks you off the course even if you are about to play your second shot to the 18th. They don't seem to do this anywhere else though...