Do you ride or walk the course?

[Golfingdad]

Every point, other than cart path only?

I could help.  He didn't say that everything that JoePete said was false, he just said he could refute every point.

Point number 5 says "Walking is healthy. While that is good on its own, a little strength and stamina in your legs is good for your swing."

I don't think anybody including fourputt would say that walking isn't healthy.  But it could be refuted in other ways.  For example:  If it's an older person we're talking about, or a particular hilly course, when it gets nearer the end of the round the fatique in your legs could quite possibly be worse for your swing.

[newtogolf]

Congrats on the new hip. Shame on you for such a loaded questions ;-)

I have long held that carts have killed golf. Their one redeeming value, Gary L, probably can speak to is they allow people who might otherwise be unable to play to continue to get out there. But for able-bodied golfers, it is a moral imperative to walk if you are able.

Why?

Carts very rarely speed play. Sure the 14 mph or so they go is faster than walking. However, they have to criss cross the fairway as two players play from one cart (that's not even address cart-path only). Further, at the two points where play is most delayed - tees and greens where golfers are at a stand still - carts and their paths are at the farthest distance; whatever a cart gains in terms of pace of play, it usually gives away at these moments.

The most important reason, however, carts killed caddies. Nothing was better for the game than caddie programs - the best way of breeding the next generation of knowledgeable golfers who could get themselves around a course. Instead we replaced this valuable feeder program with motorized couches for fat guys who treat a round of golf like a bachelor party.

.... in my humble opinion ....

Depends on the course layout.  My old course had a few holes that had a 1/4 mile to a 1/3 mile walk between them.  The course would always back up at these holes because of the time it took slower walkers to get to the hole was equal to that of a normal paced group playing the previous hole.

What killed caddies was the cost and fact you still had to walk.  Carts are $20 per 18 hole round at my current club, caddies are $80 + tip.

[Golfingdad]

Depends on the course layout.  My old course had a few holes that had a 1/4 mile to a 1/3 mile walk between them.  The course would always back up at these holes because of the time it took slower walkers to get to the hole was equal to that of a normal paced group playing the previous hole.

What killed caddies was the cost and fact you still had to walk.  Carts are $20 per 18 hole round at my current club, caddies are $80 + tip.

And this is extremely common on most of the newer courses in my area as well.  All of the courses are fit into canyons and in and around homes and streets, and have ridiculously long rides between holes.  It's not only not preferable to walk so many of these courses, it's impossible.

[bkuehn1952]

My experience has been that where a course has inordinately long distances between green & tee, the course prohibits walking.  I think the point was that when a healthy golfer is permitted to walk a course, they should opt for walking rather than ride.

[Dave2512]

Yeah walking isn't a good choice at some courses even if it is allowed. At my home course I've only seen walkers there once and due to the length between holes they had players in carts waiting on them and trying to get through the entire time I could see them. I can't imagine why someone would even try to walk it. No exaggeration the 9th green is about 300 yds from the clubhouse and the 10th tee probably an 1/8 mile from the clubhouse. You cross two streets just to get there. I don't think any holes are closer than 100 yds apart. Park style courses that are easy to walk are a thing of the past here. They exist but nobody builds new ones.

[ditchparrot19]

And this is extremely common on most of the newer courses in my area as well.  All of the courses are fit into canyons and in and around homes and streets, and have ridiculously long rides between holes.  It's not only not preferable to walk so many of these courses, it's impossible.

Hate courses like that. I'll play them once (or maybe more than once if I play for free every time), but I won't pay. I just don't care for the whole concept.

[dennyjones]

I enjoy walking when the course will allow.   There is a course near my house that weaves thru a subdivision and they will not allow walking.   I do play there on occasion because it's convenient.  If I'm with a group and they plan on riding, I have walked.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I could refute every point you made...

Every point, other than cart path only?  Walking is not healthy and/or riding in a cart provides the same level of exercise?

Certainly specific training on proper usage of carts would curtail many of the problems we associate with carts.  I just don't see that happening at the vast majority of public access courses on which I play.  Cart misuse is the norm and for that reason, some of the points are valid concerns at many courses.  Not at the better run courses, to be sure, but at a lot of courses without strong training and monitoring policies.

Never said that, but he states it in such away as to suggest that there are no health benefits to be had from riding when one plays, and that simply isn't the case.  I get plenty of walking when I ride, because I often park the cart between the 2 balls and then we both walk from there.  When I play an approach shot short, but past the the end of the allowed cart travel, I will grab my wedge and putter and walk from there while my fellow rider takes the cart to the parking area.  That way I not only get a little more exercise, but I also continue to play (thus improving pace) while the cart is taken care of.  So yes I can refute his intimation that riding is a pursuit for sloths.

[Dave2512]

I mentioned this before in a older walking vs riding thread. You walk more than you think when you ride. I wore a pedometer every day in 2012 and it was common for me to see where I was at during the day, I had specific steps goals. I almost always ride and I remember taking as many as 1500-2000 steps per 9 holes riding. When you walk it's pretty much a straight line to and from the ball, tees and green. In a cart you move all over the place. That said I don't find golf walking or riding to be anything but a leisure activity. Yes you walk but if that's the only exercise you are getting it's not much. At one point during my recovery from a foot injury I was walking over 20k steps a day and golf was a small part of that. It's better than doing nothing but not much.

[takodarudd]

walk sometimes but mostly ride, but looking into getting a push cart to walk more

[JoePete]

Depends on the course layout.  My old course had a few holes that had a 1/4 mile to a 1/3 mile walk between them.  The course would always back up at these holes because of the time it took slower walkers to get to the hole was equal to that of a normal paced group playing the previous hole.

What killed caddies was the cost and fact you still had to walk.  Carts are $20 per 18 hole round at my current club, caddies are $80 + tip.

Cases such as this are a little bizarre. Makes you wonder what the developer or architect was thinking. Part of that maybe reflects the marriage of housing developments and golf. They were probably leaving room for house lots and a road in there and never sold it. If you read up on the USGA Pace of Play formula, it does recognize that this is the one area - green to next tee - where carts have advantage over walkers. Otherwise, at least according to the USGA, there is no inherent speed benefit to carts vs. walkers. The formula even recognizes that if you are dealing with cart-path only, such policy adds 15 percent time to a round.

As to caddies cost. Yes, that has gotten a little out of hand at some courses, but so few courses have them, it has become more a resort/high end thing. I am talking about the kids looping at the local muni type program. The number of golfers in the country has stagnated (shrank in some cases, we might pick up a million golfers a year, but slightly more than a million die or leave the game). What has increased substantially is the time for the average round of golf. As such, courses have to charge more (because they now can fit fewer players on the course in a given day), and that pushes more people away. There are a few other stats that shows the game is contracting (at least in terms of play). I just find there is a strong correlation between the emergence of the golf cart/death of caddie programs and these negatives.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoePete

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Depends on the course layout.  My old course had a few holes that had a 1/4 mile to a 1/3 mile walk between them.  The course would always back up at these holes because of the time it took slower walkers to get to the hole was equal to that of a normal paced group playing the previous hole.

What killed caddies was the cost and fact you still had to walk.  Carts are $20 per 18 hole round at my current club, caddies are $80 + tip.

Cases such as this are a little bizarre. Makes you wonder what the developer or architect was thinking. Part of that maybe reflects the marriage of housing developments and golf. They were probably leaving room for house lots and a road in there and never sold it. If you read up on the USGA Pace of Play formula, it does recognize that this is the one area - green to next tee - where carts have advantage over walkers. Otherwise, at least according to the USGA, there is no inherent speed benefit to carts vs. walkers. The formula even recognizes that if you are dealing with cart-path only, such policy adds 15 percent time to a round.

It's pretty obvious that you know what the architect was thinking.  Or not what he was thinking so much as what he was saddled with.  The developer wanted as many lots as possible fronting on the golf course, because those lots sold at a premium.  The more the course is stretched out, the more he makes from sales.  The course designer is stuck with the plan created by the developer.  The the players are ultimately stuck with the end result.  I usually try to avoid those courses, even though I am a rider.  Unless they left room between the lines of homes to actually route a course, I don't play them.  I have an intense dislike for courses where every stray shot is out of bounds.

Quote:

As to caddies cost. Yes, that has gotten a little out of hand at some courses, but so few courses have them, it has become more a resort/high end thing. I am talking about the kids looping at the local muni type program. The number of golfers in the country has stagnated (shrank in some cases, we might pick up a million golfers a year, but slightly more than a million die or leave the game). What has increased substantially is the time for the average round of golf. As such, courses have to charge more (because they now can fit fewer players on the course in a given day), and that pushes more people away. There are a few other stats that shows the game is contracting (at least in terms of play). I just find there is a strong correlation between the emergence of the golf cart/death of caddie programs and these negatives.

Where did you ever see "kids looping at the local muni"?  I've played on and off since 1964 (and regularly since 1974) and never, ever played at a course where there was a caddie available, including the country club my parents belonged to in the mid 60's.  Caddies were on their way out long before motorized carts took over the duties.  The insignificant per round cost of pull and push carts are what killed the caddie, not riding carts.

[Dave2512]

Where did you ever see "kids looping at the local muni"?  I've played on and off since 1964 (and regularly since 1974) and never, ever played at a course where there was a caddie available, including the country club my parents belonged to in the mid 60's.  Caddies were on their way out long before motorized carts took over the duties.  The insignificant per round cost of pull and push carts are what killed the caddie, not riding carts.

Kind of surprised you aren't aware of the caddie programs in Denver. The First Tee of Denver runs caddies out of all five city courses and CommonGround sponsors the Solich Caddie program. Last I heard the Solich caddies are free. Though these days most of the caddie programs are designed to provide mentoring to kids more than anything. Last time I played Willis Case I called ahead to reserve a caddie.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Where did you ever see "kids looping at the local muni"?  I've played on and off since 1964 (and regularly since 1974) and never, ever played at a course where there was a caddie available, including the country club my parents belonged to in the mid 60's.  Caddies were on their way out long before motorized carts took over the duties.  The insignificant per round cost of pull and push carts are what killed the caddie, not riding carts.

Kind of surprised you aren't aware of the caddie programs in Denver. The First Tee of Denver runs caddies out of all five city courses and CommonGround sponsors the Solich Caddie program. Last I heard the Solich caddies are free. Though these days most of the caddie programs are designed to provide mentoring to kids more than anything. Last time I played Willis Case I called ahead to reserve a caddie.

Didn't play Denver courses much - a little bit at Overland, and I think twice at Willis Case some 30 years ago.  I lived in unincorporated southeast Jeffco and played Foothills and The Meadows as a resident.  No caddie programs there at all.  I never saw any evidence of it at the Denver courses, so I'm not sure just how well publicized it is.  I am aware of the Eisenhour-Evans scholarships and always contributed to that through the Men's Club at Foothills, but I never actually saw a caddie working anywhere.

[BuckeyeNut]

The poll results are interesting:

33% Ride

66% Walk

I suppose where one plays is a big factor, but I see nothing close to resembling these numbers at the courses I frequent.  From what I see, it's closer to

90% Ride

10% Walk

just an observation..... I play upscale public courses so this probably has a lot to do with what I see.  More people choose to ride at the nice courses because they're not concerned about paying a $15 cart fee.

[Fourputt]

The poll results are interesting:

33% Ride

66% Walk

I suppose where one plays is a big factor, but I see nothing close to resembling these numbers at the courses I frequent.  From what I see, it's closer to

90% Ride

10% Walk

just an observation..... I play upscale public courses so this probably has a lot to do with what I see.  More people choose to ride at the nice courses because they're not concerned about paying a $15 cart fee.

So how do the other 1% get around?

[Golfingdad]

So how do the other 1% get around?

Well, up to this point, there are only 66 total votes, so that 1% is only 2/3 of a person so ....

I'm guessing wheelchair???

[keyglobal]

In the summer I walk 9 in the morning before work, then walk another 9 during lunch. Started 2 years ago. Gives me about 22,000 steps on Fitbit.