Looking for someone that has suffered from taking the club too far inside and is now cured

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Try this drill, set-up with the hips forward, weight forward, hands forward and extend the legs on the followthrough.  Hips forward shallows everything out.

Looks tricky but I'll give it a go! Thanks. I still have too much sway in my swing...

[Danattherock]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

I think the reason I've always been attracted to S&T; is because it promotes hands in and a straight right leg. Two things I do naturally! ;-)

Great thread!

I have had the same "problem" of an inside take away myself. My issues differ from yours in some ways and I am not nearly as good a player. Granted, I am improving quickly, but in recent years I have struggled with consistency, solid ball striking, hitting fairways, etc.. On a good day, I break 90. However, some of what I read in this thread struck a cord with my own struggles. Some of it was resolved when I recently began learning a new hitting pattern based on some S&T; components, TGM components, and interpretive input from my instructor. I still have much to learn, but for the first time, I feel I am heading in the right direction. This hitting pattern just feels right for a lack of better words.

On lesson one, first five minutes into the lesson, the instructor says "You already have the required inside take away". My mouth fell open. Is an inside take away not the big problem I had to get rid of? I was (and still remain to a degree) confused. However, proof is in the pudding. We tweaked my forward torso lean, bent left knee, degree of right leg straightening, grip, position of hands at the top, shortened my back swing, etc... I am now hitting the most solid shots of my life and I still have an inside take away. We are working on many things, namely my downswing. I have a long way to go, but at this point, I get better every time I hit balls. It is literally like a flood gate has been opened.

For years, I would have incremental "ah ha" moments, some would foster better golfing, some would fade away. For example, hands ahead of club head at impact, flat left wrist, etc.. allowed me to stop flipping. This was a lasting improvement that stemmed from my reading of Bobby Clampett's book, "The Impact Zone". I spent a day with Jeff Evans in Georgia. That put me on the right path. But aside from the fore mentioned, I had little lasting improvement in my golf swing till I adopted some S&T; components in my swing. Best I can tell, some of the things I was doing naturally make this work.

Anyway, I don't have much to contribute. Mostly just wanted to chime in as this is one of the best threads I have ever read on this forum. I do find it extremely interesting that a more accomplished golfer (you) has had some success adopting similar swing changes. Seems the inside path afflicts more folks than I realized. At this point, it seems my new hitting pattern tolerates this better than what ever it was about the more conventional swing I couldn't overcome. Felt like I was putting a square peg in a round hole for 20 years. Now I can see even I have a chance to play golf well. Feels good I must admit. Good luck to you and I hope your improvements are long lasting.

-Dan

[HarryVardon09]

My problem with taking the club back inside stems from initiating with my wrists. My left wrist ROLLS over and flips the club inside, then drags it the top, and flips it back into the proper position. I'm going to try some of these aids and hit a lot of balls. When taking slow swings with a mirror I see that attempting to shake hands with my right hand as I turn back helps get the club in the right plane.

I've studied the swing and movements almost obsessively over the last few years and when I'm taking swings in front of the mirror I am very pleased with what I see... However; when I take this to the course my old habits creep up on me like demons. Hopefully I can conquer this problematic move before tournament season kicks in late spring.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by Danattherock

Anyway, I don't have much to contribute. Mostly just wanted to chime in as this is one of the best threads I have ever read on this forum. I do find it extremely interesting that a more accomplished golfer (you) has had some success adopting similar swing changes. Seems the inside path afflicts more folks than I realized. At this point, it seems my new hitting pattern tolerates this better than what ever it was about the more conventional swing I couldn't overcome. Felt like I was putting a square peg in a round hole for 20 years. Now I can see even I have a chance to play golf well. Feels good I must admit. Good luck to you and I hope your improvements are long lasting.

Dan, you can check out my progress here, although I haven't posted a swing for awhile: http://thesandtrap.com/t/53961/my-swing-the-pharaoh

Remember, the swing is only a small part of one's overall game. I got to +0.1 with the first swing in the thread above. Think about that for a second! I got to scratch despite my swing, not because of it.

This has been, well still is really, a brutally tough error to eliminate. I continue to work on my takeaway constantly, because if I forget to cock my wrists up quickly to start my swing I take the clubhead inside immediately. I forget all about my hands as they go in enough but I have to make sure I really point the clubface to the ground and get the clubhead ascending as fast as possible until P2.

Please bear in mind that doing this move well doesn't all of a sudden correct the rest of your swing, it just makes the downswing easier if you have the club positioned correctly at the top.

My advice to you is to get yourself a video camera and video yourself making hundreds of practice swings. Get the hands and the clubhead going up the hands plane together. The way to achieve this? Think Rickie Fowler. That visual really works for me.

[westcyderydin]

I follow S&T; for pretty much everything besides the hands in part.  I need to cup my wrists right away in my takeaway to turn correctly or i end up swaying and not really turning my shoulders and just get lost on my backswing...and then the downswing.  It's like i can't get the clubhead back behind my hands.  One feeling i have when i lose my backswing is that my hands get too passive and my body starts to try to take the club back by itself.  At first while reading this thread i was thinking that this is the same thing that you were all talking about, but now it sounds like it is almost the opposite problem.

Either way, I think one of the more important things in the backswing...no matter what problems you may have...is that the head stays still and the hands swing the club around the body.  That means keeping your weight a bit forward, having a good centered pivot, a good shoulder turn, and keeping the pressure in your armpits.  Make sure you are doing those things correctly before you change what your arms, wrists, and hands do in the takeaway and backswing.  Then also make sure that you are staying connected at the top of your backswing and that you are not going back too far.  Oh, and also check to make sure that you are gripping the club correctly...and especially that you aren't gripping the club too much in your palms.

When it comes down to practicing or adjusting your takeaway, I don't think there is a better way to practice it than hitting pitch shots with your full swing setup.  It gives you a chance to practice your setup, takeaway, tempo, and impact position without getting tangled up at the top of your backswing.  It is also easier on your body and will help improve your short game at the same time.

[EverythingGolf]

Here are a few images that may help you visually.

This Grant Waite, notice the trianlge at the setup. You want to maintain this triange (one piece take away) till you get the club close to parallel to the ground.

Notice here that he has maintained the triange (one piece take away) and the club is parallel to the ground AND TAREGET LINE!!

This is achieved by using the upper body/shoulders to take the club back, not the hands!

After the club has passed parallel the shaft/butt of the club should now be pointed at the target line as you see by the white line in the image below.

You want to try and keep the shaft on this line for as long as you can until you reach the top of your back swing, then the club will be parallel to the ground/target line.

Here is a down the line view to show how the shaft/butt of the club should be pointing at the target line.

There are 3 line that show where the club was during the take away.

This is something that has helped my and I hope it can help you.

[Domenic]

on a good day, I'm cured on a bad day I'm not. this will sound retarded and I know you've heard it before, but it's all just keeping the club on the imaginary line AAALLLL the way up. the rest is just one more pured iron in the span of many to come....

[Danattherock]

If anyone liked the images Everythinggolf posted above (as I did), check out The Golf Channel's Greg Norman Driving Special. A thirty minute show which was recently aired as a three part series from each Greg Norman, Johnny Miller, and Sir Nick Faldo. Kidding about the Sir part, can't help myself. But the shows were great and the driving special with Greg Norman went into detail on all the suggestions above in the illustrations. TGC replays stuff all the time of course so it shouldn't be too hard to locate it and set the dvr to record it. I made some notes to take to the range myself.

Greg Norman golf channel driver special...

One piece takeaway till club is parallel to ground.

Get to hand shake position at this parallel point.

Right hand doing the shake.

At this point, butt of club point to target.

Put ball on ground 18" behind teed ball. Slightly inside to be on swing plane.

Brush this ball on backswing. This goes with one piece takeaway and hand shake position.

Take super slow full swing shots with driver. Hit ball 50-60 yards.

Hands ahead of clubhead at impact.

Hover driver at address.

-Dan

[iacas]

Originally Posted by EverythingGolf

Notice here that he has maintained the triange (one piece take away) and the club is parallel to the ground AND TAREGET LINE!!

This is achieved by using the upper body/shoulders to take the club back, not the hands!

His right elbow has bent at this point already and his wrists have cocked. The triangle isn't really maintained. Look at his right elbow.

"The one-piece takeaway" done "properly" (i.e. rigid arms) sets people up to over-fold the right elbow late in the backswing as a compensation for not doing it soon enough in the backswing. Same deal with wrist cock - they'll tend to overdo it late.

Feel ain't real so this thought might work for some people, but be careful you're not actually doing a "one-piece takeaway."

I think a more proper right arm/forearm takeaway is more of a right forearm fanning motion.

And think about it geometrically. If the shaft is somewhere between your arms at setup, if you do nothing with your wrist conditions (no hinging, no cocking) then your arms and club would look like this "until parallel" (the < is the arms and the –– is the shaft of the club):

––<

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by Danattherock

Get to hand shake position at this parallel point.

Right hand doing the shake.

I don't like this advice at all, means the clubface is open at P2. The right hand should be pointing at the ground at this position in the swing, definitely not a hand shake position

[EverythingGolf]

Yes I agree wtih you Erik at this point the right elbow will start to bend and continue to bent to the top of the back swing. I was trying to show that the upper body is taking the club back and the hands, rolling of the wrists etc. are not.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by iacas

His right elbow has bent at this point already and his wrists have cocked. The triangle isn't really maintained. Look at his right elbow.

"The one-piece takeaway" done "properly" (i.e. rigid arms) sets people up to over-fold the right elbow late in the backswing as a compensation for not doing it soon enough in the backswing. Same deal with wrist cock - they'll tend to overdo it late.

Feel ain't real so this thought might work for some people, but be careful you're not actually doing a "one-piece takeaway."

I think a more proper right arm/forearm takeaway is more of a right forearm fanning motion.

And think about it geometrically. If the shaft is somewhere between your arms at setup, if you do nothing with your wrist conditions (no hinging, no cocking) then your arms and club would look like this "until parallel" (the < is the arms and the –– is the shaft of the club):

––<

Yeah, fanning and a little pickup, but you know that :-) The bending of the right forearm help the clubhead move back, up and inward on plane.

Quote:

Yes I agree wtih you Erik at this point the right elbow will start to bend and continue to bent to the top of the back swing. I was trying to show that the upper body is taking the club back and the hands, rolling of the wrists etc. are not.

Yes that's a good point, I think most golfers have a tendency to over rotate the forearms too early into the backswing, clubhead gets too far inside and under the hands and then they have to lift the arms to get some ascent.  But the proper sequencing can be felt with the pivot guiding the hands or the hands guiding the pivot.  This is what the Golfing Machine calls right forearm takeaway, kind of pulls the right shoulder into motion.

[HarryVardon09]

I've been practicing with a weighted club. I've lined up correctly sideways to a mirror and practiced in very slow motion the takeaway in an outside pattern to the top of the swing where I reach full extension and feel the heat in my stomach.

[The_Pharaoh]

Another great training aid is the McLean Breakaway. It forces you to take the club back very slowly (if not, it breaks!) and this helps prevent pulling the club inside too quickly.

[JaxGator]

I know that this is an older post but I wanted to provide a link to the video that helped me to correct my back swing.  Here is the link to the Shawn Clement video on youtube that provides the best explanation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMXTGYnYgcA&feature;=related .  The video is titled (Arms in Front of the Body; #1 most popular golf teacher on you tube Shawn Clement).  The part where he talks about Lee Trevino's swing thought is what I concentrated on while swinging.  Correcting my swing path on the way back has significantly increased my consistency and brought my handicap down by 7 strokes over the last year.  I hope that this is helpful.  If this video has already been mentioned i apologize.

[AmazingWhacker]

I struggled with this problem for years and never even knew it.  I recently took some group lessons and one of the classes we got video analysis of our swings.  Until that moment, I never realized how inside I was taking it and how open my clubface was at the top.

My instructor helped me fix it by putting my club and hands in exactly the right positions.  It felt so strange that I could no longer hit the ball.  After aboout a week and 1,000 swings I got it fixed and it feels very natural to me now.

I have watched tons of golf videos (including the excellent Shawn Clement videos) but I guess my problem was that I thought I was doing it right and following the videos - but I wasn't.

[GaijinGolfer]

Pharoh, not sure if this is of any help to you but Ive always struggled with a push too and Ive been playing around with some of the theories of S&T; and I find that keeping my weight more on my left foot on my backswing makes it much easier for me to not deliver the club from the inside.  Id say its probably a 60/40 split.

In the past, Ive always followed the adage that the weight goes on the inside of your right foot on the backswing and then transitions to the left leg through impact with a finish on the outside part of the left foot with almost all of the weight in the left.

It seems like keeping the weight more on my left on the backswing makes it much easier for me to clear my hips and release the club.  My divots used to always point a little bit to the right but now theyre straight.  Like I said though, not sure if your issue is the same as mine so you can take my experiences for whatever they are worth.

[The_Pharaoh]

Gents,

Thanks for the tips/videos etc, but the cure can be found below. For those of you that can't be bothered going through the evolution of my swing, think hinge the club up quicker and point clubface to the ground from A1 to A2. If that doesn't mean anything to you, try Rickie Fowler's backswing:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/53961/my-swing-the-pharaoh *

*Thank you Golf Evolution!!