Anyone Watch Dalton McCrary's How to Hit the Golf Ball as Straight as You Can Point?

[bplewis24]

So, after 6 pages of discussion on Dalton's methodology, all I've learned is that he's sold a lot of copies, doesn't teach golf, but somehow teaches people to teach something that he doesn't know how to teach...and a lot of nothing else.

I once responded to a "Jerry Heard Swing" and "Moe Norman" swing discussion by suggesting that they have these cult-like similarities: obscure, but passionate following, short on details but high on salesmanship.

I'm not anti-capitalist.  If you want to protect your ability to monetize something, go for it.  But don't pretend to discuss the swing methodology while really just using it as a guise for promotion and marketing (and that's putting it nicely.  "Dalton's" long-winded post really qualifies as something much more closely resembling bull****).

[RichardGreening]

This will be the last message I post on this forum.

Everyone has their own 'ideas' on the golf swing regardless of being a 28 handicapper or Tiger Woods, which is based on the things we see, read and hear. We all have our own journeys regardless of how good at the game we get, but the point is it's a game! and games are suppose to be fun!

If people enjoy discussing Golf, swapping stories, knowledge, etc..  if that's what you enjoy doing then great!

It seems to me the problem we have is the first few people who posted here did so not knowing the inner workings of this site. They were then faced with by people who 'believe' or 'follow' something different. As in life 'ideas' are great, ideas can change over time but 'believes' are accepted as truth and are very hard to change.

If this forum is independent then anyone should be able to post, share and learn and if that's what you intend to offer to this community then great!

You have asked Dalton to respond and he has done so now twice with genuine answers and both posts have been met with responses that do not make sense, they make a point of trying to say he is wrong but then in their explanation they agree totally with what Dalton is saying.

This could have been an interesting place for people to swap 'ideas' which we both could learn from, but sadly I think it will just be two camps with two sets of 'believes' slinging mud, I would not like to be involved in that. Different methods can help different people in different ways and that's what we are both hear to do, help people!

Please shut the Thread down if you feel the need to do so. If anyone would like to discuss this further, our door is always open.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by RichardGreening

You have asked Dalton to respond and he has done so now twice with genuine answers

Yeah, by no means is this true.

[geauxforbroke]

I'll be skeptical until I read something other than marketing. Can someone (either Dalton, Richard, or a student) give me an executive summary of his swing methodology? Or is there no methodology and it's just a bunch of metaphors for understanding how to hit a golf ball?

[RichardGreening]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I'll be skeptical until I read something other than marketing. Can someone (either Dalton, Richard, or a student) give me an executive summary of his swing methodology? Or is there no methodology and it's just a bunch of metaphors for understanding how to hit a golf ball?

As this was a good question I will leave you guys with a list of the chapters in the new Series:

The Game of the Golf Swings

Agreeing on a Philosophy

Club Check

The Grip

The Grip Drill

Posture

The Posture Drill

Weight Transfer

The Weight Transfer Drill

The One Piece Takeaway

The One Piece Takeaway Drill

The Club Release

The Club Release Drill

'One and Roll'

The 'One and Roll' Drill

Impact

The Impact Drill

Peripheral Vision

The Peripheral Vision Drill

Timing

The Timing Drill

Routine

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Let's get back on track:

To show an example of discussion, let's look at this vid.

Warning - I did not completely understand what D is saying about the grip - whether to move to fingers or just close the face slightly. Maybe he can jump in and clarify.

D is saying that Pros address the ball with more than average shaft lean and retain that shaft lean at impact. From his explanation, he knows that most amateurs don't have sufficient shaft lean (hands ahead of club at impact). To help students hit the ball straight, he has them turn the toe in so the clubface is closed at address. In the typical amateur swing, they will leave the face slightly open and with little or no shaft lean at impact. D is trying to set up his students for success because the closed face at address will result in a square face at impact for most amateurs - and the ball flight will begin straight. Now it may curve depending on the path of the swing, but a square face will start with a straight flight (straight as to the club face at impact).

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by RichardGreening

Quote:

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I'll be skeptical until I read something other than marketing. Can someone (either Dalton, Richard, or a student) give me an executive summary of his swing methodology? Or is there no methodology and it's just a bunch of metaphors for understanding how to hit a golf ball?

As this was a good question I will leave you guys with a list of the chapters in the new Series:

The Game of the Golf Swings

Agreeing on a Philosophy

Club Check

The Grip

The Grip Drill

Posture

The Posture Drill

Weight Transfer

The Weight Transfer Drill

The One Piece Takeaway

The One Piece Takeaway Drill

The Club Release

The Club Release Drill

'One and Roll'

The 'One and Roll' Drill

Impact

The Impact Drill

Peripheral Vision

The Peripheral Vision Drill

Timing

The Timing Drill

Routine

This is about as useful as saying:

"The three most important keys to the golf swing:

1. Set up to ball.
2. Hit ball.
3. Watch ball."

[WillR]

Mr. D From watching the short video and seeing your detailed explanation, you truly know what you are talking about. Smiles all around.

[WillR]

Everyone has their own 'ideas' on the golf swing regardless of being a 28 handicapper or Tiger Woods, which is based on the things we see, read and hear. We all have our own journeys regardless of how good at the game we get, but the point is it's a game! and games are suppose to be fun!

If people enjoy discussing Golf, swapping stories, knowledge, etc..  if that's what you enjoy doing then great!

It seems to me the problem we have is the first few people who posted here did so not knowing the inner workings of this site. They were then faced with by people who 'believe' or 'follow' something different. As in life 'ideas' are great, ideas can change over time but 'believes' are accepted as truth and are very hard to change.

If this forum is independent then anyone should be able to post, share and learn and if that's what you intend to offer to this community then great!

You have asked Dalton to respond and he has done so now twice with genuine answers and both posts have been met with responses that do not make sense, they make a point of trying to say he is wrong but then in their explanation they agree totally with what Dalton is saying.

This could have been an interesting place for people to swap 'ideas' which we both could learn from, but sadly I think it will just be two camps with two sets of 'believes' slinging mud, I would not like to be involved in that. Different methods can help different people in different ways and that's what we are both hear to do, help people!

Please shut the Thread down if you feel the need to do so. If anyone would like to discuss this further, our door is always open.

Firstly , thanks to a fellow forum member for pointing out the `quote` feature. As much as I would like to argue with your writings here, I cannot. As a new member, my perception does seem to indicate that this forum thread is a closed group. If you do not agree to their beliefs, you are hounded until you do, or you just don`t post anymore. This is why there are so many `single` posts on here. People are either worried about being hounded or they cannot be bothered to hurl insults back and forth. It seems to me, if this thread is not making money from you, they are not interested in anything you want to communicate. You can clearly see that others post links everywhere, yet others are removed because they provide no form of revenue.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by str8golfer

We do the same things over and over simply because we heard a 'Key' phrase, we saw for example a ONE PIECE TAKE AWAY that was shown in slow motion on Sunday that Johnny Miller or Brandell Shamble spoke of  or you see how long Tiger Woods keeps his head behind the ball and it sticks in you mind.

Haha that was funny

Originally Posted by RichardGreening

As this was a good question I will leave you guys with a list of the chapters in the new Series:

The Game of the Golf Swings

Agreeing on a Philosophy

Club Check

The Grip

The Grip Drill

Posture

The Posture Drill

Weight Transfer

The Weight Transfer Drill

The One Piece Takeaway

The One Piece Takeaway Drill

Again we're looking for substance, this is a table on contents.  Here's a quick example of what "meat" looks like http://thesandtrap.com/t/66901/importance-of-the-hips-in-the-golf-swing

Again we ask

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by WillR

As a new member, my perception does seem to indicate that this forum thread is a closed group. If you do not agree to their beliefs, you are hounded until you do, or you just don`t post anymore.

This simply isn't true. There are tons of productive members here that don't see eye to eye. We disagree often, and that's part of what makes this site great. If everyone agreed on everything, we wouldn't have many threads, and every thread would be pretty short.

Originally Posted by WillR

It seems to me, if this thread is not making money from you, they are not interested in anything you want to communicate. You can clearly see that others post links everywhere, yet others are removed because they provide no form of revenue.

The majority of the members here contribute zero revenue to the site. New members that join for the sole purpose of marketing a product have their posts removed. This is the case on virtually every well-run message board on the internet.

Several people have already posted in this thread (including the owner of the site) that we would love to hear what Dalton has to say regarding his teaching method and swing methodology. However, to this point, nothing has been said except "he's a great teacher, you should buy everything he produces" and frankly, it's very reminiscent of a bad infomercial.

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by David in FL

I agree, a picture is worth a thousand words.....by all means, please show us. I'd love to see a video of your swing.....maybe with your own comments on how/why it differs from others that you've tried in the past.

Thanks!

I asked for a swing video from a student several days ago.  I'd still like to see one along with some meaningful dialog as to how it differs from the norm.  I think that "meat" could lead to some interesting discussion.

If not Steve, maybe someone else?  Dalton himself, or failing that, Richard would be really informative.

[iacas]

Look, I feel we've been more than fair in letting this thread continue. At this point, it's wasting our time. If there's no meat by dinner time... And Richard, you're way off base with your beliefs about how this site is run, the requests and (lack of informative) responses in this thread, and more.

[Mr. Desmond]

After reviewing this thread, and the lack of discussion as to what D teaches, my guess is that his students who are posting are not certain what to discuss. From what his students have stated, D does not attempt to change their swing, but has them playing "acceptable" and enjoyable golf.

From the discussion and video, it sounds as if D has developed a series of fixes that may help the majority of golfers who don't want lessons, but just want to enjoy the game when they play, and hit the ball so it starts out straight and keeps it in play. I am talking about the majority of his students, not all. I'm certain a certain percentage are excellent golfers who carry low 'caps.

I think the "disconnect" is that such fixes (I apologize for that label) is not what we generally discuss on this site. This board generally discusses eliminating flaws to decrease swing compensations. From what his students have said, D accepts the flaws and creates compensations, or fixes, to decrease the effect of a swing flaw.

It is a different perspective. I can see its usefulness in the golf marketplace.

[RandallT]

I'm a golfer looking for a new "paradigm" to begin my next push to improvement, and I stumbled across this site. As a new member, I'll just say that TST has been pretty welcoming with some real characters here, so I'll likely post videos and look at the offerings here in more depth. Such a wealth of information, and I'm liking the overall framework of 5SK.... speaking for just me personally, I find very little in the pitch of "Straight Golf" to be compelling and they likely missed a chance to impress lots of people like me. No details despite numerous attempts to draw it out of them, but the Table of Contents gave me a glimpse (interestingly, I am intrigued by "peripheral vision" as one of their key points in impact- never heard of that myself), but alas... there was nothing there so far about their methodology that would draw me to look closer, unless they openly discussed more. Locking the thread would be reasonable, because this could be and endless cycle of: 1) members ask for details, 2) they provide same evasive answers while whining about not being treated well.

[WillR]

As Mr Greening & Mr Desmond have quite rightly replied to this forum in a manner of decency, this forum still declares indirectly they have a superior product to anyone else. It is quite clear what the agenda is here on this thread. It is nothing more than a sales promotion machine for the owner and co-owner of the sandtrap. Anyone who dares to mention anything other than their own 5 Simple Keys is immediately beaten down by the supporters of this site. The supporters and new members are quite clearly coerced to swing their minds over to 5SK rather than another product which produces a threat to them. How do I know, let`s just say I do. OK Go ahead and lock it down. You will be doing your members a real favor, so they don`t have to listen to your whining little shills.

[Nole77]

Originally Posted by WillR

As Mr Greening & Mr Desmond have quite rightly replied to this forum in a manner of decency, this forum still declares indirectly they have a superior product to anyone else. It is quite clear what the agenda is here on this thread. It is nothing more than a sales promotion machine for the owner and co-owner of the sandtrap. Anyone who dares to mention anything other than their own 5 Simple Keys is immediately beaten down by the supporters of this site. The supporters and new members are quite clearly coerced to swing their minds over to 5SK rather than another product which produces a threat to them. How do I know, let`s just say I do. OK Go ahead and lock it down. You will be doing your members a real favor, so they don`t have to listen to your whining little shills.

Deflect, deflect, deflect.  Still no substance, just knocking the management for asking you to provide substance.  Apparently their secret agenda isn't so secret.  At this point I can safely say I have no flipping idea what your product actually is.

[newtogolf]

When I first started reading this site, everyone was gushing about S&T.;  I had no interest in S&T; but found enough good people and useful information on here to become a member and support the site.  The fact we now consider 5SK the holy grail and not S&T; shows that we all can learn something from other golf swings and methods, no one method works for everyone.

I'd suggest that we all would benefit from having exposure to as many swing methods and ideas as possible and let the members decide what's best for them individually.  Dalton made an offer with Mr. Desmond to play a round of golf and share his thoughts about the golf swing as well as cover all the costs, Mr. Desmond has yet to accept.  Maybe someone else from the site would like to take Mr. Desmond's spot and report back.

Reading this thread I'm reminded back to the days when I wasn't agnostic and went to Catholic church where I was told how wrong all the other religions were...