What happened to etiquette in golf?

[camper6]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

No, that just isn't true.  If someone files a frivolous lawsuit, they are the ones who pay any associated costs.  And this would be considered frivolous.  If the player on the tee (or wherever he's hitting from) takes reasonable care, then the fault is on the guy who wandered where he wasn't supposed to be.  What would you say if the ball is already in the air when the guy comes out of the bushes?

Bottom line is - don't enter the wrong fairway until you know it's clear.  That may mean that you stay in the rough of your own hole until the oncoming players have all hit.  A golf course isn't a dangerous place, per se, but there can be dangerous situations and anyone who just stupidly wanders around the course without a care is inviting injury.  You can't put the blame on one player for another guy's stupidity.  Any judge would rule that there is an implied risk in just being on the golf course, and being someplace where you don't belong and where other players don't expect you to be puts the onus on you to use extra care not to turn that risk into an immediate danger.

Now we are talking legal stuff and how the courts will rule.

For instance.

Excerpt:

However, in England a similar case ended with a $120,000 settlement, after a man hit a female golfer, who was standing ahead of him on the ladies' tee, with his drive.

Bristol-based firm Golfplan Insurance, who paid out on the claim, said it remains "the UK's largest public liability claim for a golf sports injury."

This time the man had given the time-honored warning of "Fore!", but the court ruled it did not absolve him from blame.

Now there have been other cases where a golfer has been hit by a golfer who didn't holler fore and the court ruled that the golfer was not liable for the injury although he didn't holler Fore because you assume a risk when you are on a golf course.

So it's a tough one all around.   So for me to be on the safe side and back to the topic I would let the guy get the hell out of the way before I hit.  No need to holler Fore or anything else if he's no longer there.

Advice here.  Buy insurance and don't make any assumptions of how a judge will rule.  If you get a judge who golfs he will give a different verdict than one who doesn't because he knows the game.

I watched the Peoples Court years ago where a golfer hit a car on a road next to a golf course.  Judge Wapner ruled that the driver assumes a risk driving near a golf course and ruled that the golfer was not liable and that the driver should have been watching the guys on the tee.

Other judges have ruled exactly the opposite.

There is one hole on a course that ran right next to another hole.  There were times I would hold back driving until the group on the opposite fairway were out of range.  Hollering Fore doesn't do much good if they can't hear you.  I saw one golfer drop to the ground after a shot hit him in the forehead.

Luckily he didn't get it in the eye.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by camper6

The ones I have seen hit really badly (On the opposite fairway) were unaware where the ball was coming from and looking up trying to find it in the air.

They were stupid.  You cover up your head, make yourself as small as possible, and stand still when you hear FORE, you don't look for the ball.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by camper6

Now we are talking legal stuff and how the courts will rule.

For instance.

Excerpt:

However, in England a similar case ended with a $120,000 settlement, after a man hit a female golfer, who was standing ahead of him on the ladies' tee, with his drive.

Bristol-based firm Golfplan Insurance, who paid out on the claim, said it remains "the UK's largest public liability claim for a golf sports injury."

This time the man had given the time-honored warning of "Fore!", but the court ruled it did not absolve him from blame.

Now there have been other cases where a golfer has been hit by a golfer who didn't holler fore and the court ruled that the golfer was not liable for the injury although he didn't holler Fore because you assume a risk when you are on a golf course.

So it's a tough one all around.   So for me to be on the safe side and back to the topic I would let the guy get the hell out of the way before I hit.  No need to holler Fore or anything else if he's no longer there.

Advice here.  Buy insurance and don't make any assumptions of how a judge will rule.  If you get a judge who golfs he will give a different verdict than one who doesn't because he knows the game.

I watched the Peoples Court years ago where a golfer hit a car on a road next to a golf course.  Judge Wapner ruled that the driver assumes a risk driving near a golf course and ruled that the golfer was not liable and that the driver should have been watching the guys on the tee.

Other judges have ruled exactly the opposite.

There is one hole on a course that ran right next to another hole.  There were times I would hold back driving until the group on the opposite fairway were out of range.  Hollering Fore doesn't do much good if they can't hear you.  I saw one golfer drop to the ground after a shot hit him in the forehead.

Luckily he didn't get it in the eye.

You seem to keep making this assumption that I said somewhere that it was ok or that I would hit if this idiot was in my fairway.  I've never said any such thing.  I've said over and over that I would NOT do so.  What I've said and I continue to say  is that the etiquette of the situation is that he should never even venture on to my hole until my group and I have finished hitting.  If he edges close then stops and ducks behind a bush, then I assume that he is waiting for us to play, and we will do so.  I have taken such a pose before after hitting an errant shot.  I'll move over as far as I feel comfortable, then find the best shelter possible to wait until they finish playing.

I also assume that if he hears one of us holler "FORE!" that he will not do something as stupid as to turn and look.  I try to give others the benefit of the doubt and grant that they have at least as much good sense as I do - at least until they demonstrate that I'm giving them too much credit.   When I hear fore, or if someone yells anything else, I duck and cover.  It may not have been much good as a defense against a nuclear attack, but it's perfect for avoiding injury on the golf course.

If the guy is truly an idiot and walks out onto our fairway in spite of the fact that two of us have already hit and the the other two are getting ready to do so, we will stop.  We may holler some obscenities at him just to get his attention, but that is as far as it will go.  I have never, nor will I ever intentionally hit at another human being.

[funkyfred72]

Originally Posted by camper6

The ones I have seen hit really badly (On the opposite fairway) were unaware where the ball was coming from and looking up trying to find it in the air.

That is their fault.  If I ever hear "fore", I duck and cover my head.  It's like when you say "head's up!", and people look around and try and figure out why.

[camper6]

And what if they don't hear you?

[camper6]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

You seem to keep making this assumption that I said somewhere that it was ok or that I would hit if this idiot was in my fairway.  I've never said any such thing.  I've said over and over that I would NOT do so.  What I've said and I continue to say  is that the etiquette of the situation is that he should never even venture on to my hole until my group and I have finished hitting.  If he edges close then stops and ducks behind a bush, then I assume that he is waiting for us to play, and we will do so.  I have taken such a pose before after hitting an errant shot.  I'll move over as far as I feel comfortable, then find the best shelter possible to wait until they finish playing.

I also assume that if he hears one of us holler "FORE!" that he will not do something as stupid as to turn and look.  I try to give others the benefit of the doubt and grant that they have at least as much good sense as I do - at least until they demonstrate that I'm giving them too much credit.   When I hear fore, or if someone yells anything else, I duck and cover.  It may not have been much good as a defense against a nuclear attack, but it's perfect for avoiding injury on the golf course.

If the guy is truly an idiot and walks out onto our fairway in spite of the fact that two of us have already hit and the the other two are getting ready to do so, we will stop.  We may holler some obscenities at him just to get his attention, but that is as far as it will go.  I have never, nor will I ever intentionally hit at another human being.

I never made that assumption.

The point I am trying to make over and over is that just hollering FORE doesn't necessarily let you escape liability.  Even though you duck you can still get hurt if the ball hits you.

[DaSportsGuy]

Originally Posted by camper6

I never made that assumption.

The point I am trying to make over and over is that just hollering FORE doesn't necessarily let you escape liability.  Even though you duck you can still get hurt if the ball hits you.

What more are you supposed to do? Jump up and down yelling and screaming? Sound an air horn?

[camper6]

Originally Posted by DaSportsGuy

What more are you supposed to do? Jump up and down yelling and screaming? Sound an air horn?

You're still missing the point. Just hollering FORE doesn't absolve you of any responsibility to make sure you don't hit someone.

What more are you supposed to do? Buy insurance.

[DaSportsGuy]

Originally Posted by camper6

You're still missing the point. Just hollering FORE doesn't absolve you of any responsibility to make sure you don't hit someone.

What more are you supposed to do? Buy insurance.

Oh I know it doesn't. But if you don't intentionally hit into someone, then yelling "FORE" is just about all you can do.

[camper6]

Originally Posted by DaSportsGuy

Oh I know it doesn't. But if you don't intentionally hit into someone, then yelling "FORE" is just about all you can do.

You're right.   What is amazing is that more people don't get hit on the golf course considering what I read here.

[FLOG4]

My experience with forums is that folks write stuff they would never say and do.  It's very easy to become more aggresive than you would normally be.  And what, maybe 1/2 of what you read here is factual.  Most folks drop this" I think" line and actually does anyone really give a hoot what you think.  Especially someone that gives no outward appearance of having any knowledge on the subject.  I'm gonna guess that I have played over 4000 rounds of golf and if I was to guess again I'd peg the # of times someone has hit into me on purpose, meaning they didn't know we were there due to blind shot or we were in visual dead zone, less than 10.  So while these forums allocate a release hatch for folks they don't represent reality.

[camper6]

Originally Posted by FLOG4

My experience with forums is that folks write stuff they would never say and do.  It's very easy to become more aggresive than you would normally be.  And what, maybe 1/2 of what you read here is factual.  Most folks drop this" I think" line and actually does anyone really give a hoot what you think.  Especially someone that gives no outward appearance of having any knowledge on the subject.  I'm gonna guess that I have played over 4000 rounds of golf and if I was to guess again I'd peg the # of times someone has hit into me on purpose, meaning they didn't know we were there due to blind shot or we were in visual dead zone, less than 10.  So while these forums allocate a release hatch for folks they don't represent reality.

My experience also in probably the same number of rounds or more is that I have NEVER seen anyone hit a ball intentionally at anyone or group ahead of them.   It's always someone who didn't think they could reach that far and hit a career shot.

However I have also seen 2 people hit on the golf course badly and there was no time to holler fore.

They were standing off to the side and slightly in front of the golfer hitting the ball when the person hitting squirted one off the side or front of the club.

Both were hit in the head and once it was a daughter hitting her mother.

Also I have seen 2 others hit when the ball went to an adjacent fairway and the group couldn't hear the FORE yell.  That's dangerous as well because they are walking toward you.

Man.  You should have seen the bruise on the chest of one of the golfers the next few days.  Covered half his chest.

[FLOG4]

I've been clocked 4 times by a golf ball. Just last week was 4th. Buddy skulled one outta bunker as I was walking behind green making my way to my ball. Twice hit in chest by people hitting at me from adjacent fairways. And once a full bore shot from over a blind hill that hit my ankle, that one was really painfull.  It's a game of risk reward in more ways than one.  In all of the above instances I had no warning. My buddy says he yelled last week, but from strike to hittin me was maybe a second and I wasn't looking toward him.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by camper6

I never made that assumption.

The point I am trying to make over and over is that just hollering FORE doesn't necessarily let you escape liability.  Even though you duck you can still get hurt if the ball hits you.

I will forever dispute that with you, but it's obviously not going to change your mind.  I guess you just wouldn't bother to yell since you don't seen to think that it can be heard anyway.

Sometimes accidents happen, even if that means yelling "FORE!" after your ball is in the air.  I've had players walk out from behind trees before when I didn't know they were there and they didn't know I was hitting.   I have a bullhorn voice when I really let go, so it takes a strong wind for them not to hear me.  I find that I'm more often giving such warning when my companions hit an errant shot that when I do, but I still do my level best to let the other players know when they are in harms way.

I don't remember ever being hit by a ball, and I've never hit anyone else, despite almost 40 years of playing usually busy public courses.

[newtogolf]

You accept the risk and potential for injury when you play golf from an errant shot.  While no sane individual would ever intentionally hit at someone, we all know there is the potential that someone slices their drive into the fairway or green you're on.   A golfers obligation is to yell fore if their shot is far enough off target that it places people at risk of getting hit.  Camper is right, some people might not hear it, or react incorrectly to it (looking up instead of ducking), but the golfer can't control that.  Fans at baseballs games sometimes get hit with foul balls, but they don't sue and win damages from the baseball player.

[Jmdmbike]

You accept the risk and potential for injury when you play golf from an errant shot.  While no sane individual would ever intentionally hit at someone, we all know there is the potential that someone slices their drive into the fairway or green you're on.   A golfers obligation is to yell fore if their shot is far enough off target that it places people at risk of getting hit.  Camper is right, some people might not hear it, or react incorrectly to it (looking up instead of ducking), but the golfer can't control that.  Fans at baseballs games sometimes get hit with foul balls, but they don't sue and win damages from the baseball player.

This is exactly right. You do accept the risk of accidental injury when you go onto the golf course. A couple of things that I've read in many of these posts that are disturbing are people who don't yell FORE when they hit a wild one - really bad and potentially dangerous lack of golf etiquette - and people intentionally hitting into others, which goes way beyond bad manners - something is really wrong with these people. There is never a valid reason for this type of behavior.

[camper6]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I will forever dispute that with you, but it's obviously not going to change your mind.  I guess you just wouldn't bother to yell since you don't seen to think that it can be heard anyway.

Sometimes accidents happen, even if that means yelling "FORE!" after your ball is in the air.  I've had players walk out from behind trees before when I didn't know they were there and they didn't know I was hitting.   I have a bullhorn voice when I really let go, so it takes a strong wind for them not to hear me.  I find that I'm more often giving such warning when my companions hit an errant shot that when I do, but I still do my level best to let the other players know when they are in harms way.

I don't remember ever being hit by a ball, and I've never hit anyone else, despite almost 40 years of playing usually busy public courses.

Well you make a lot of assumptions and I won't argue with you. I just post what I consider are the facts. And I always holler Fore even when it's not my ball heading towards anyone. The courts have already ruled that hollering Fore doesn't necessarily remove any liability you might be confronted with.

[camper6]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

You accept the risk and potential for injury when you play golf from an errant shot.  While no sane individual would ever intentionally hit at someone, we all know there is the potential that someone slices their drive into the fairway or green you're on.   A golfers obligation is to yell fore if their shot is far enough off target that it places people at risk of getting hit.  Camper is right, some people might not hear it, or react incorrectly to it (looking up instead of ducking), but the golfer can't control that.  Fans at baseballs games sometimes get hit with foul balls, but they don't sue and win damages from the baseball player.

Fans at baseball games get a ticket .  The ticket might state that the risk is on the owner of the ticket.   I have never seen that on a golf course.