The Apex of the Putt

[jamo]

The ball breaks immediately. You may not perceive it, but it breaks immediately.

A bullet fired perfectly horizontally begins dropping immediately as it leaves the barrel. Gravity doesn't "take a break" for awhile.

Yep. Gravit doesn't decide to act only down the hill and not along the break for the first few seconds, it acts in both directions instantly. It might no break much, but it does.

[smpear]

Originally Posted by saevel25

When i read putts, i can usually see how the putt will roll. I will look at my ball then trace my eyes out towards the hole, and i can visualize how the ball will roll and the break it will take. I actually make more putts with break than straight putts. So what i do is pick a point about a 6 inches infront of the ball i like to see the ball roll over. That point is on my curved line that i see.

This is exactly how I putt except that after I setup to the curved line that I see, I forget about the line and think only about distance.

[slicemasterdave]

I'm a putt putt master, but putting on an actual green is a little more difficult for me. Its much easier on xbox. I need to invent some sort of laser that grids it all out like Tiger Woods 2010...

[Tiger90]

That is what i do...I pick a spot even with the cup (ex. 15 inches right of the cup) and make sure i have forward lean on my putter for consistency in my putting stroke.  I try to never look at the hole when im over the ball, only the spot im aimimg at.

[Stacey_E]

I may be the only one to admit this, but I read a putt just like the original Tiger Woods PS game.  I imagine the ball heading straight toward the hole, and where it would end up on that line and speed.  Then I adjust right or left based on that imaginary line.  Often, if not always I find the break is less than I would imagine, relative to that "straight at the hole" line.  I do hate missing on the "pro" side.  I'd much rather under read the break and be below the hole.  I do however, always consider that the ball will break much less in the first 1/3 of the distance (due to pace) than the last 1/3.  And as a brief aside, I've started to hit more 10-20 footers since I quit prescibing to the "die in the hole" approach and started trying to lag it 18" past.

[saevel25]

Well if your making more putts with trying to hit the ball past the whole 18", then you might be under reading the break on your putts originally, since more speed will give you less break. So it might not confirm that 18" past the whole is a better way to make putts than dying it in the whole.

I honestly go for maybe a few inches past the whole, just to give it a chance, but i like it not to have to much speed, since more speed diminishes the size of the hole, and you can have issues with lip outs and the ball not falling in if it catches the edge.

[iacas]

It was only recently that I talked with Rich Hunt about people aiming at the apex of a putt. Rich said something about how he felt like a lot of golfers aimed at the apex of the putt. My opinion was something like "Who would be so stupid?" And when he said they aimed at the apex of the putt, he meant it. He said people would see the "high point" of the putt and they'd literally try to aim it there. Again, "who would be so stupid"? I'd literally never seen it before. Until I started looking for it.

Uh huh: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/280679/width/800/height/1000][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/280679/width/800/height/1000[/IMG][/URL] Oy.

[boogielicious]

I read that. Zoinks!

[Leftygolfer]

Look at that picture with the graphic.  The putt goes totally straight for the first 10 feet.  It must be right because it is in a golf mag with Butch Harmon.

Right there is proof you are totally wrong.  Must be a bunch of "flat landers", all you sand trap geeks.

[TOMM]

The "spot" is the place you AIM the ball to break to the hole.  The "spot" is the "apex" of the putt line - every putt is a straight putt - to some point.  Tomm

[zipazoid]

The 'spot' and the 'apex' also change based on speed. Are you wanting to die it into the hole or run it in? Is it uphill or downhill? If you're in Florida, what's the grain doing?

Not that I'm a great putter by any means, but I'm better than many, and the biggest thing I see guys do is not play enough break, and then they hit it too hard. That's a recipe for 3-putting. I prefer to 'over-read' break and use less speed. That way, if it misses it's still somewhere around the hole, and it's on the high side with chance to go in. A putt below the hole is dead, has no chance to go in.

This is why I don't like scrambles (invoking another thread) cuz I often can't get guys to realize this. Play more break than you think, hit it softer. I'm right far more often than I'm not.

[jamo]

The "spot" is the place you AIM the ball to break to the hole.  The "spot" is the "apex" of the putt line - every putt is a straight putt - to some point.  Tomm

There is a spot where you can aim every putt so that's it's a straight putt. That's not the apex though.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

The 'spot' and the 'apex' also change based on speed. Are you wanting to die it into the hole or run it in? Is it uphill or downhill? If you're in Florida, what's the grain doing?

Said before and will say again: grain doesn't affect the break of a putt much at all. Mark Sweeney can tell you that. Heck, he's based out of Orlando.

Originally Posted by jamo

There is a spot where you can aim every putt so that's it's a straight putt. That's not the apex though.

Yup. :)

[tiger1242]

Can someone direct me to a thread or article here that goes over different putting techniques and fundamentals. I am a good putter from inside 6 feet (aren't we all) but when I really have to read putts and hit them correct I struggle. I read this whole thread and am thoroughly confused. I know I imagine a line I read the putt to break on, I line up to that line and try and hit my putt to go on that line. But I can't for the life of me figure out if y'all are saying that's good or bad...

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by tiger1242

Can someone direct me to a thread or article here that goes over different putting techniques and fundamentals. I am a good putter from inside 6 feet (aren't we all) but when I really have to read putts and hit them correct I struggle. I read this whole thread and am thoroughly confused. I know I imagine a line I read the putt to break on, I line up to that line and try and hit my putt to go on that line. But I can't for the life of me figure out if y'all are saying that's good or bad...

Don't read this thread for full clarity, although there are some excellent posts as I read it - I believe the initial post makes the point that if you want the ball to roll over the high point (apex) of the putt, then unless it is a straight putt to the apex, you need to aim above the apex (account for break) for the ball to roll over that apex point.

As to your other questions:

Two popular gurus are Dave Stockton - see the book, Unconscious Putting; and

Pat O'Brien - http://patobriengolf.com/Instruction.aspx, Pat has a good, simple inexpensive DVD

They are both similar in advocating a neutral setup, but Dave likes a forward press and Pat does not. Pat advocates a grip that allows the left hand to dominate without going left hand low and allows the shoulders to remain as level as possible, which buys into his philosophy of a completely neutral setup.

I like Stockton for the fact that he advocates not taking a practice stroke and not looking at the ball at address, but focusing on your initial line in front of the ball - you become less ball conscious.

Good luck.

[TOMM]

Just remember this - every putt is a STRAIGHT putt - to some point.  Pick that place where the ball will "drop" or roll towards the cup, and hit it straight there - that's the "apex" of the putt.  Not to be confused with the apex of the putting stroke/swing; that is in the middle of the stance/ball position.  Many players miss their putts 1" - 2 " to the left by playing the ball too far forward in their stances - the putter will "bottom out" and the face of the putter will be square in the middle of the stance -at the APEX of the swing/putt.  T.K.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by TOMM

Just remember this - every putt is a STRAIGHT putt - to some point.  Pick that place where the ball will "drop" or roll towards the cup, and hit it straight there - that's the "apex" of the putt.  Not to be confused with the apex of the putting stroke/swing; that is in the middle of the stance/ball position.  Many players miss their putts 1" - 2 " to the left by playing the ball too far forward in their stances - the putter will "bottom out" and the face of the putter will be square in the middle of the stance -at the APEX of the swing/putt.  T.K.

The apex of the putt where the path the ball will travel is farthest from a straight line from the ball to the hole. Let's not re-define things for the sake of renaming things, because on a simple planar putt the "apex" with your definition is where the ball is sitting (it's breaking instantly from the moment it's hit).

[ScT1]

I'm glad I read this thread. Based on what I learned in it, I've very much changed how I aim my putts which will track on a path outside the hole. And I've also changed where my eyes look for a target. Prior to having read this thread, on longer putts that would need a path outside the hole, I would look at the hole, then ball, then hole, then ball, then hole, then ball and stroke. Now I've begun to select a target that's off the hole and look at that instead of the hole. I've never done well with distance control if I select a target in front of the ball, but based on yesterday and a round where I had 30 putts and no 3-putts, selecting a target that's off the hole but about the same distance let's me control line and distance better.

Although I'm trying to figure out what I might want to do with longer and big breaking putts where it might be hard to select a target with about same distance as hole. Maybe if I calculate where I believe the apex of the putt to be, imagine what speed it ought to be traveling at that time, then select a target point with distance close to the apex point and use that? I'll definitely go the practice green and try that to see if it will work for me.

But heck, this thread made me realize why I would often have trouble starting my ball on line on longer putts, plus have trouble with distance. When I would be looking at the hole on the long putts with breaks outside the hole, my brain would be struggling with conflicting info -- eyes are looking there, try to putt to there, wait! the ball is supposed to go out there, but my eyes are looking there, stroke would then flail and fail with the conflicts going on.