Playing by the rules........ Is there one here who can cast the first stone?

[luu5]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

If you know your ball is findable and in bounds, you may not hit a provisional.

If the player thinks the ball may be lost he can hit a provisional. Be it woods, rough or fairway.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beukes

I do care that they screw up the best game in the world. Golf, when rigidly played by its rules, is the most demanding, ruthless and vicious game in the world - far worse than kickboxing actually. When not played by its rules, on the other hand, there is nothing to it - literally just a walk in the park.

Now that's funny.

I lol'd too. Beukes rhymes with . . .

[Beukes]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Now that's funny.

It is, isn't it? You have to maintain a sense of humor in this thread, given the rather 'unique' positions put forward re "Will I play golf?" or "Will I play real golf according to the real rules of golf?". And real golfers, sir, kick kickboxers' ass.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Beukes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Now that's funny.

It is, isn't it? You have to maintain a sense of humor in this thread, given the rather 'unique' positions put forward re "Will I play golf?" or "Will I play real golf according to the real rules of golf?". And real golfers, sir, kick . . . .

Let's not hijack a rules topic with a "why golfers try to convince themselves they're athletes" thread.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Let's not hijack a rules topic with a "why golfers try to convince themselves they're athletes" thread.

[Spyder]

Exactly. Leave the "I'm an athlete because [...]" debate to the Bowling Forums.

I really do not understand all of the debate here. This entire thread should be this easy:

1 . If you're playing in a casual round, do what you want with your score as a casual round is a fun/practice/leisure round.

2 . If you're playing in any type of round (Club, Tournament, etc.) where Handicaps are altered based on your play (ie: You're required to hand in a card) - USGA Applies .
3 . If you're playing a round with friends and a bet is offered - the rules that you will be playing by must be predetermined, understood and agreed upon.

It's really that easy. If the debate continues to a page 11, I'll gladly create a flow chart.

In regards to Number 1. Some people tend to play Practice rounds by the books. Some people prefer to take additional shots from positions where a mishit occurred, play multiple balls, remove the gimme putt and move to a more difficult location, fluff up a lie, not mark their balls, take additional shots from the tee, etc.

This is very easy to settle.

Scorecard is being turned in = USGA Rules were observed and applied to the "T" and you did not knowingly break any rules within.

Scorecard is not being turned in = Mind your own damn business.

[jgreen85]

There's a really good article/slideshow on golf digest that pretty much has all of my rules of golf. I don't do the mulligan thing, but everything else are my adjustments.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2011-10/photos-reasonable-rules

Good luck hitting off of that root next time, and thanks for driving up healthcare costs.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

If you know your ball is findable and in bounds, you may not hit a provisional. In an earlier post I was not advocating hitting provisionals just for practice when you are not entitled. But if you are not sure if it is OB or it is likely going to be lost, hit a darn provisional. Example of when you should not hit a provisional: hook a drive clearly heading OB that hits a tree and your cart-mate sees the ball hit the tree and go straight down in bounds and is very findable. You don't see it but he did and is sure. In that case, I would say you can't just decide that you'd like a practice swing and call it a provisional.

I've been in precisely this situation several times before when we never found the ball.  It doesn't have to be indisputable evidence that the ball may be lost, only a reasonable chance that such may be the case.  In the case of the ball hitting a tree, it can end up just about anywhere, even if you think you saw it drop.  I've known what was thought to be a ball turn out to be a leaf, or a piece of a branch, and we either never found the ball, or ultimately found it on the opposite side of the fairway, or 30 yards out in the rough.  Unless we see the ball clearly, I will always play a provisional ball when I hit a tree.  You are far too rigid in your interpretation of the rule.

Originally Posted by jgreen85

There's a really good article/slideshow on golf digest that pretty much has all of my rules of golf. I don't do the mulligan thing, but everything else are my adjustments.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2011-10/photos-reasonable-rules

Good luck hitting off of that root next time, and thanks for driving up healthcare costs.

I've hit from roots, rocks, cart paths, etc. many, many times in the last 40 years and never damaged a club or a body part.  I simply take care to play the shot safely.  If I don't think I can play the shot, then I declare the ball unplayable and take my penalty.  Simple enough.

[WWBDD]

Quote:

If the debate continues to a page 11, I'll gladly create a flow chart.

Could require a couple of ppt slides too.

[WWBDD]

Originally Posted by jgreen85

There's a really good article/slideshow on golf digest that pretty much has all of my rules of golf. I don't do the mulligan thing, but everything else are my adjustments.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2011-10/photos-reasonable-rules

Good luck hitting off of that root next time, and thanks for driving up healthcare costs.

Oh great ... that link just added another 10 pages minimum to this thread.

[tristanhilton85]

I don't get that slide show... they post all sorts of different ways to "adjust" the rules and then one of them is to adjust the handicaps mid round to make sure things are equal... if everybody would just follow the damn rules to begin with there would be no reason to adjust the hc.

And the crap about moving your ball out of a fairway divot or foot print in the sand is stupid too... that's just the way it is sometimes.  Yesterday I had the worst round I've had in a long time and was especially bad out of the bunkers... On one bunker shot I thinned it really bad but it hit the lip and ended up ok and on the green... By the same logic of moving the ball out of a fairway divot because "that shouldn't happen," I should go pick my ball up off the green and throw it off... sometimes the breaks go your way, sometimes they don't.

[Kobey]

There's one thing that hasn't really been covered, and that is tact. If you absolutely must inform someone of a rule they are breaking, please try and do it in a way that doesn't turn it into a confrontation.  As this site's posts show, most people do not know all the rules and don't understand a lot of the ones they do know.  There is usually no reason to call someone out and embarrass them in front of others if you can simply take them aside and politely let them know they are breaking a rule.

And one other thing; on every score card from every course I play, the very first course rule is that USGA rules govern all play.  So technically, I am supposed to be following the rules even if I am not keeping score.

[mdl]

To @rustyredcab, yeah I was being snarky.  I was basically just saying that your argument to think about probably unnecessary provisionals as a legal practice swing is pretty convincing.

I'm good enough now that except on my worst days I'm unlikely to hit back to back tee shots OB, but I still think being super anal about never playing OB as a drop with distance (whether with a +1 or +2 penalty) is bad for pace of play for anyone in the double digit HC range, which obviously I'm right on the edge of.  I got in the habit from back when I played worse.  Helping to reinforce my doing it that way is the fact that I only ever play busy courses (affordable and not God awful in LA mostly on weekends = BUSY and SLOW), and I've always been super annoyed by slow play and bias towards always keeping it super tight against the group in front.  If my group's playing at a pace where the group in front is starting to be totally cleared out by the time we get to the tee box then I'm the guy that'll charge to the next tee box and tee off sometimes before everyone's even putted out if I finish 1st or 2nd.

To @shorty, the pissy tone's annoying.  But to your point, I realize that I'm taking a stroke advantage in the situation discussed.  I'm just stubborn and if I take a swing that wasn't terrible and push the ball into the right rough, I'm inclined to assume it's not going to disappear into OB that looks fairly far from the line my shot was on.  Then when I'm out there if I'm surprised I can't find it I'll just drop near where I last saw it rather than walk back to the tee.  You're right that I should take a +2 instead of a +1 there, which I think I'll start doing when I haven't taken a practice/provisional shot.

And if my posting an (unofficial, kept on my a phone app) HC here really bunches your panties too much, then you can mentally add some number in the range (0.2184, 0.3673) to the number I post for the 3-4 penalty strokes I didn't take over the 10 rounds going into that calculation.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Kobey

And one other thing; on every score card from every course I play, the very first course rule is that USGA rules govern all play.  So technically, I am supposed to be following the rules even if I am not keeping score.

Oh don't be ridiculous.

Number one, if you are practising or playing socially or not keeping score you don't need a scorecard.

Number 2, if you are going to reply by saying that if the card says "USGA rules govern all play" it doesn't matter if you've seen the card or not you are maintaiuning that a three yoear old hacking away in a bunker in view of her parents having lunch is "playing" and must follow the rules.

I think that we can assume that "all play" implies all competition play or play where peope are scoring or submitting cards for handicaps.

It does not apply on practise on the course or social play when people are not (or should not be) scoring.

[ejimsmith]

while waiting on the tee the other day, i took out my wedge and practiced a couple chips next to the tee.

i still posted my score....

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

while waiting on the tee the other day, i took out my wedge and practiced a couple chips next to the tee.

i still posted my score....

Just as well. Was it a conforming wedge? Hope so.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

while waiting on the tee the other day, i took out my wedge and practiced a couple chips next to the tee.

i still posted my score....

Which is perfectly legal under the rules.

Originally Posted by Shorty

Oh don't be ridiculous.

Number one, if you are practising or playing socially or not keeping score you don't need a scorecard.

Number 2, if you are going to reply by saying that if the card says "USGA rules govern all play" it doesn't matter if you've seen the card or not you are maintaiuning that a three yoear old hacking away in a bunker in view of her parents having lunch is "playing" and must follow the rules.

I think that we can assume that "all play" implies all competition play or play where peope are scoring or submitting cards for handicaps.

It does not apply on practise on the course or social play when people are not (or should not be) scoring.

I don't see how you assume that.  If the card says (as it does on my home course) that "USGA Rules govern all play", then it means what it says.  It isn't subject to interpretation.

However, I will add that the statement is there in part to prevent misuse or abuse of the course by someone playing a game so divergent from golf that extreme slow play or damage to the course could occur.   It covers, among other things, the prohibition against playing multiple balls, particularly if that results in causing the group behind you to wait.

[rustyredcab]

I think the choir has heard the sermon more than once by now. Some of the choir members just wish to play OB as a lateral. That is what it is. Some people refuse to be saved. :)

I think our local courses can go a long way to help players avoid the situation altogether. On the 5th hole of my home course there is a split fairway. If you try to play left and miss hit into the junk/water, your only play would be to re-tee. You can also clear the water and find lots of other junk that you don't even see until you get up there. It is often hard to tell if your drive is safe from the tee. If you get up there and discover that it is not safe, you'd need to go back and re-tee. One could stand on that tee box all day hitting balls into the junk. It is a tough shot that has earned this short par 4 the number one handicap on the course. So, the course management created a drop area and a local rule that you use the drop area if your tee shot is in the junk or water. The drop area is no picnic as it still leaves you 220 to a very narrow green on a line that is almost all carry over that water --  a very hard shot or an easy layup for most. But without a drop area, that hole would take forever and guys would score it all different ways. Even without guys hitting ball after ball into the water from the tee box, the hole still sports a very high standard deviation of scores with more others than pars.

In the same manner, a local rule calls for all tall grass heather to be played as a lateral water hazard IF you loose your ball. No debate. Use the point of entry into the tall grass as the point it entered the hazard and follow the lateral water rules from there. Again, no debating about going back. It is an odd rule because if you find your ball and elect to play it from the tall grass, you are not actually in a hazard and can ground your club.

The course management at many courses could make things easier, and in a way more equitable, if they would use drop areas and adapt local rules where logical.

Pretty sure no one is going to convince mdl to drive back and re-play his shot or to be more liberal in his provisionals so that he won't need to go back. But if you are reading this and run a course, consider helping guys avoid the situation altogether.