Joe Paterno and Penn State

[rustyredcab]

Big Ten is taking Paterno's name off the new conference championship trophy. It was going to be called "The Paterno Trophy."

Judges that gave the child molester unsecured bail had a conflict of interest -- same as no bail unless he fails to appear in court at which time they can chase him for the bail.

ED of charity resigns without comment.

This will keep going and going. New crimes and scandals will be revealed for months. New victims will keep coming forward. Any conspiracy to cover this up will eventually be uncovered.

Many news people have predicted that this will become the biggest scandal ever associated with college athletics. (Makes guys selling their jerseys after a game look pretty tame.)

Will this become the first thing people think of when they hear "Penn State" for years and years? I think of how for 40 years the only thought I have when I hear "Kent State" is of the protest that led to shootings of students. I'm not saying the events at Kent State are at all like what is being revealed about a Penn State football coach and the negligence or coverup of others at Penn State. I am saying this has the potential to be the defining event of Penn State for many many years. A once proud institution may never be proud again.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Go back and read my posts, I never argued guilt or innocence, I argued that he was the target of the media regardless of whether he was guilty or innocent.  I'm a business owner, I approach things logically and what's in the best interest of the business and individuals.  Here's the simplified version since everyone thinks I'm a cold hearted kid hating individual.

McQueary witnessed the crime, he was morally and lawfully obligated to report the crime to the police.  Not only did he act as a coward and not stop the act, but he didn't call the police.  In my book he's total scum and should be the one fired and hung in the court of public opinion, but instead he's protected as a "whistle blower".

McQueary chose to wait 24 hours to call Paterno, not the police.  Paterno had an obligation to report this to his management and allow them to handle it.  Understand had McQueary not been a coward, this would have never touched Paterno.  McQueary offered no proof on the call to Paterno it was just his word against Sandusky's.  Paterno wasn't in a position to act on it without consulting his management, he's a football coach on the org chart.

Paterno reported this to the AD and President who assured him it would be handled, this is why he met his "minimal" obligation by law given the circumstances.  If he didn't report it, he's a criminal too.

If an employee reports witnessing another employee committing a crime and informs me, I as CEO and owner have the responsibility to call the police, not the employee.  If I fail to do my job, I deserve to go to jail.  PSU's president and AD should go to jail if it's proven Sandusky is guilty of what he's accused of.  Paterno met his obligation and followed the process PSU created for such incidents.

We have no idea what the President or AD told Paterno was being done with the information he provided from McQueary - for all we know Paterno could be involved in the cover up or he could have been lied to.  You can't fire the employee for my failure or unwillingness to do my job until you PROVE the employee did something wrong.

Without all the facts, Paterno was tried and convicted in the press, his career and legacy destroyed.  It could be rightfully so, and he deserves all of this and more, but none of us will know for sure.  Paterno's firing isn't going to change those poor kids lives and Sandusky was already arrested so there was no future threat to any children.  From my position it appears PSU caved to the press and the lynch mobs that wanted Paterno fired.  I have yet to read or hear anything from the DA or Police Commissioner that states Paterno had broken any laws.   Am I the only one that finds it coincidental that once Paterno was fired, PSU and the horrible tragedy is off the back page of newspapers and isn't the lead story of every news broadcast.  In fact last night all I heard was they lost, interesting, ESPN was more concerned if Lucks poor play last night would cost him the Heisman - what about those poor kids they were so worried about earlier in the week?

For the record, I could care less about PSU or Paterno, but I find it quite disturbing how much power we've given to the press in this country that we could destroy a persons legacy without a shred of proof.  If Sandusky is found guilty and the DA is able to provide evidence that Paterno was involved in the cover up I'll be watching and cheering when they take him off in handcuffs to jail because what was allegedly done to those kids was horrible and disgusting.

Wow.  I don't know where to start.

1.  How can you acknowledge a moral obligation of McQueary, and not Paterno?

2.  McQueary needed proof!???  WTF?  And Paterno doesn't need anyone's permision to report a crime, ever.  He is also more powerful than those he reported it to.

3.  No one is saying he is a "criminal".  His responsibility goes beyone covering his own ass legally in most people's opinion.

4.  How do you know the process at PSU?  And educators and coaches who are mandated reporters are MUCH diferent than other organizations/businesses.

I am willing to bet anything that the BOT at PSU have more information and proof than we do.  Besides, the grand jury concluded that the Pres and AD were lying about what they knew.  They knew more.  The same as Paterno.  But, again the Pres and AD are the only one's formally "charged".  Not having criminal charges brought against you doesn't make you innocent of not reporting and protecting children.

You don't have to break laws to be terminated from your job.  And you still are saying "there is no shred of proof" against Paterno?  I have heard a LOT.  And I have also continued to see this story lead headlines after Paterno's firing.  My goodness you have issues with the press.

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by FLOG4

Were you there for the ceremony and prayer?  That was very emotional on TV.  The #2 QB Bolden was a very highly recruited kid.  He just plays slightly worse than McGowin.  And Penn State has never been known as a QB school...RB's and LB's. Would have loved to have been there. Also the QB coach Jay Paterno!!!!!!!and the walk on is a fav of Bradley as much as the other is a fav of Jay!!! so Bradley was committed to playing McGowin the whole game.  That was a first as the two QB's have split time all the other games....

Yeah it was nice to see both teams be involved with the prayer and the crowd was giving them a standing O the whole time. The guy sitting behind me was frustrated they didn't play Bolden at all but McGowin never looks settled in the pocket. The other thing that had everyone fired up was the last drive McGowin looked like he had no clue what he was doing. I guess as long as their D keeps them in it they always have a chance to win. Plus it looks like they will get in the B10 championship game so they got some positives going for them if they can overcome everything.

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Go back and read my posts, I never argued guilt or innocence, I argued that he was the target of the media regardless of whether he was guilty or innocent.  I'm a business owner, I approach things logically and what's in the best interest of the business and individuals.  Here's the simplified version since everyone thinks I'm a cold hearted kid hating individual.

McQueary witnessed the crime, he was morally and lawfully obligated to report the crime to the police.  Not only did he act as a coward and not stop the act, but he didn't call the police.  In my book he's total scum and should be the one fired and hung in the court of public opinion, but instead he's protected as a "whistle blower".

McQueary chose to wait 24 hours to call Paterno, not the police.  Paterno had an obligation to report this to his management and allow them to handle it.  Understand had McQueary not been a coward, this would have never touched Paterno.  McQueary offered no proof on the call to Paterno it was just his word against Sandusky's.  Paterno wasn't in a position to act on it without consulting his management, he's a football coach on the org chart.

Paterno reported this to the AD and President who assured him it would be handled, this is why he met his "minimal" obligation by law given the circumstances.  If he didn't report it, he's a criminal too.

If an employee reports witnessing another employee committing a crime and informs me, I as CEO and owner have the responsibility to call the police, not the employee.  If I fail to do my job, I deserve to go to jail.  PSU's president and AD should go to jail if it's proven Sandusky is guilty of what he's accused of.  Paterno met his obligation and followed the process PSU created for such incidents.

We have no idea what the President or AD told Paterno was being done with the information he provided from McQueary - for all we know Paterno could be involved in the cover up or he could have been lied to.  You can't fire the employee for my failure or unwillingness to do my job until you PROVE the employee did something wrong.

Without all the facts, Paterno was tried and convicted in the press, his career and legacy destroyed.  It could be rightfully so, and he deserves all of this and more, but none of us will know for sure.  Paterno's firing isn't going to change those poor kids lives and Sandusky was already arrested so there was no future threat to any children.  From my position it appears PSU caved to the press and the lynch mobs that wanted Paterno fired.  I have yet to read or hear anything from the DA or Police Commissioner that states Paterno had broken any laws.   Am I the only one that finds it coincidental that once Paterno was fired, PSU and the horrible tragedy is off the back page of newspapers and isn't the lead story of every news broadcast.  In fact last night all I heard was they lost, interesting, ESPN was more concerned if Lucks poor play last night would cost him the Heisman - what about those poor kids they were so worried about earlier in the week?

For the record, I could care less about PSU or Paterno, but I find it quite disturbing how much power we've given to the press in this country that we could destroy a persons legacy without a shred of proof.  If Sandusky is found guilty and the DA is able to provide evidence that Paterno was involved in the cover up I'll be watching and cheering when they take him off in handcuffs to jail because what was allegedly done to those kids was horrible and disgusting.

I read your posts.  Still hope you are never ina position where you are entrusted with children as you simply don't get it.

--Boy in shower with 55+ year old man is reported to you.  Teh words "fondling" and horseplay" are used and yet you just do the bare minimum and seem to think that is OK.  It isn't OK as demonstrated by the BOT of PSU.

You seem to think that being a business owner has anything to do with it.  It doesn't.

1.) Regarding McQuery; agree.  BUT it does not diminish Paterno being complicit and hsi inactions,,,,and yes his guilt (ethically).  Also, regarding McQuery,,ever think he has 'whistle blower' status and may have leverage.  You know how whislte blowers are treated 'as a business owner' don't you?

2.)  Yeah,  We get it.  You seem to think org charts and positions within an organizaation dictates one's ethical responsiblility.  You seem to think that jsut because McQueary was a slacker that Paterno could be too.  You seem to think that it's OK for Paterno to enjoy being the Big Man on Campus;;EXCEPT when it comes to haveing some honor, integruty, courage, RESPONSIBILITY.  All hollow words that he once espoused.

Like I said, hope you are never in a position where you are entrusted with children.  Casue after all; the org chart matters more than innocent children, right?

3.)  Yep.  minimal.  Minimal is what he did and he is no longer in a position to just to the minimal; and rightfully so.

4.) AD adn VP of finance are being criminally charged.  Problem is; in your analogy you insist on defending the corp. director who told of cild in shower with fondling and decided to do the bare minimum.  Oh nad by the way this corp. director carries a lot of weight and holds a lot of power.  ie Big Man on Campus (Paterno)

5.) Um, yes you can fire that person.  PSU fired Paterno and people have been fired fo rmuch less.

For some reason you seem to think Paterno eing canned as all due to media.  You can't seem to grasp that he was part of the cover-up.  you apparently didn't read his statements before lawyers told him to shut up.  You don't get it.  Paterno could have prevented more abuse.  He is likely OK legally,,,but got canned and should have.

[FLOG4]

Rather than address any one poster with my standard acerbic style.....I'll just put a few things out there.

1] How would you feel if you were being investigated and a Grand Jury was convened and prior to your arrest the report was made PUBLIC.  I am sure any one of us would be a tad upset with a confidential report used like this.

2] The ends justify the means when it is "Child Abuse"......So We throw out our laws in cases involving Children.

3] I was 100% behind cleaning house and instantly....Read my post prior to the events of BOT....

4] Given the illegal producing of the Grand Jury Report and all it's inappropriate language  Penn State was caught sleeping.  After the initial buzzsaw they have handled this well and will continue to do so.

5] Jerry and JoePa were not buds. Jerry was to take over and JoePa may not have wanted to be the guy that appeared to initiate the" Lock Jerry Up" process. He passed it up thinking the right action would be taken.  It wasn't.  And once it wasn't and some time passed everyone was afraid of initiating the first move.  The President is last man standing! He'll do time in my book.

6] Problems with the Press?  That is a VERY NAIVE comment.  Which press?  Does anyone really think there is any unbiased reporting done?  It is sad.

We are far from knowing much of this case.  Penn State was and shall be a very honorable institution.  It will take some time.

And just so I am clear.....If it had been one of my kids that Jerry was with........He'd be visiting Hoffa.....

[rustyredcab]

Legally, Paterno may avoid criminal charged (unless, as I predict, more information comes out about earlier incidents and evidence is discovered that he was part of a criminal conspiracy that allowed an abuser to go unchecked). But even if he is never arrested on criminal charges, he is far from OK legally. His civil lawsuit legal nightmare is just beginning. It was reported today that at least one of the victims has hired attorneys.

As for a leaked Grand Jury Report: I thought they were public documents when someone is arrested.

[newtogolf]

Well said!  From this point on I'll have nothing more to say on the topic until the courts hear the case and the judge makes his ruling.

Originally Posted by FLOG4

Rather than address any one poster with my standard acerbic style.....I'll just put a few things out there.

1] How would you feel if you were being investigated and a Grand Jury was convened and prior to your arrest the report was made PUBLIC.  I am sure any one of us would be a tad upset with a confidential report used like this.

2] The ends justify the means when it is "Child Abuse"......So We throw out our laws in cases involving Children.

3] I was 100% behind cleaning house and instantly....Read my post prior to the events of BOT....

4] Given the illegal producing of the Grand Jury Report and all it's inappropriate language  Penn State was caught sleeping.  After the initial buzzsaw they have handled this well and will continue to do so.

5] Jerry and JoePa were not buds. Jerry was to take over and JoePa may not have wanted to be the guy that appeared to initiate the" Lock Jerry Up" process. He passed it up thinking the right action would be taken.  It wasn't.  And once it wasn't and some time passed everyone was afraid of initiating the first move.  The President is last man standing! He'll do time in my book.

6] Problems with the Press?  That is a VERY NAIVE comment.  Which press?  Does anyone really think there is any unbiased reporting done?  It is sad.

We are far from knowing much of this case.  Penn State was and shall be a very honorable institution.  It will take some time.

And just so I am clear.....If it had been one of my kids that Jerry was with........He'd be visiting Hoffa.....

[jamo]

Charlie Pierce wrote a pretty good piece for Grantland: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7233704/the-brutal-truth-penn-state The best part of the column? Paterno isn't the focal point.

[Gresh24]

No one is suggesting Paterno should be the focal point.  Some just are acknowledging he is a piece of the scandal and should be held accountable in his role, and not limited to criminally.  Because of his stature, he is a focal point of many in the media.  That's nothing new.  Any CEO or person in his similar situation would be a target of criticism.

[FLOG4]

Charlie Pierce drives home some very valid points.  College athletics however are the lifes blood to many.  He doesn't accept that.  In that sense he is off base.  But In his analysis of the time required for forgiveness by the victims.......I believe he is spot on.  Maybe never by most.

[FLOG4]

I somehow thought the Grand Jury report went out prior to the arrest.  I was wrong.

[lonewolf]

What laws were thrown out to release a public record (Grand Jury Report)?

[FLOG4]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

What laws were thrown out to release a public record (Grand Jury Report)?

I thought report went out prior to arrest.  Only public after an arrest. My mistake.

[clubchamp]

Is it just me or does anyone else think McQueary is digging himself a hole? I mean something seems really shady about his whole involvement now he's changing his story but police deny his new story. It's also a shame that PSU is going to take the Paterno statue down but I guess unfortunately this goes beyond whether he did the right or wrong thing and more of the fact that he will always be linked to Sandusky. It's a tough spot for PSU because they want to rid themselves of everything Sandusky but Paterno is a casualty of it since he was the head coach.

[FLOG4]

Originally Posted by clubchamp

Is it just me or does anyone else think McQueary is digging himself a hole? I mean something seems really shady about his whole involvement now he's changing his story but police deny his new story. It's also a shame that PSU is going to take the Paterno statue down but I guess unfortunately this goes beyond whether he did the right or wrong thing and more of the fact that he will always be linked to Sandusky. It's a tough spot for PSU because they want to rid themselves of everything Sandusky but Paterno is a casualty of it since he was the head coach.

No truth to JoePa statue removal rumor.  McQueary? Truth? Anythings possible.

[Grumpter]

Originally Posted by clubchamp

Is it just me or does anyone else think McQueary is digging himself a hole? I mean something seems really shady about his whole involvement now he's changing his story but police deny his new story. It's also a shame that PSU is going to take the Paterno statue down but I guess unfortunately this goes beyond whether he did the right or wrong thing and more of the fact that he will always be linked to Sandusky. It's a tough spot for PSU because they want to rid themselves of everything Sandusky but Paterno is a casualty of it since he was the head coach.

Mcquery emailed - " I did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police". The police and their counterparts in State College said they had no record of a former graduate assistant reporting a sexual assault.

Both statements could be true.

[rustyredcab]

And now there are reports that Mcqueary attended charity golf events with/for Sandusky shortly after he saw Sandusky raping a boy in the shower. I know Sandusky was a powerful man at PSU, and charity is charity, but you'd think Mcqueary would have not have been able to be anywhere near Sandusky. Was he so concerned about offending a man he had just seen rape a boy that he would add his support to the charity where Sandusky had access to boys? To protect his career as a coach? There will be a lot of people who end up looking very bad as this continues to unfold. Mcqueary will be near the top of the list. How's that protecting your career above all else working for you now? Any job offers?

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

And now there are reports that Mcqueary attended charity golf events with/for Sandusky shortly after he saw Sandusky raping a boy in the shower. I know Sandusky was a powerful man at PSU, and charity is charity, but you'd think Mcqueary would have not have been able to be anywhere near Sandusky. Was he so concerned about offending a man he had just seen rape a boy that he would add his support to the charity where Sandusky had access to boys? To protect his career as a coach? There will be a lot of people who end up looking very bad as this continues to unfold. Mcqueary will be near the top of the list. How's that protecting your career above all else working for you now? Any job offers?

I actually played in the second mile golf tournament from 2000 to 2003 and there was a lot of ex psu players that were "celebrity" golfers. I can't remember if I saw McQueary there in 2003 but I do remember Kijana Carter being so hung over he was throwing up every other hole. Surprisingly though he was very talkative and a really nice guy just sometimes you had to wait for him to puke to continue your conversation.