Elbow Position and Its Effects on the Downswing

[Joe Hill]

I disagree that it does, and I think you're confusing your feels for what happens in reality.

Your sweet spot isn't on the plane, so you need to do something to get it on the plane. You're having to make an out-of-plane adjustment/compensation or you'd swing several inches inside the ball.

Respectfully, this is a square swing. The hands stay square to their arc. That is an over riding force. it is impossible for the shaft to be pointing at the ball with the triangle in that position and the hand plane remain square to it's arc. Due to that factor, the measuring stick you apply is not valid. You are measuring against a different type of swing. The triangle is still relative to the torso at the top, and it has changed form very little. There is a little bit of slop at the top where I let upward momentum lift the arms a tad, but I recovered at transition. Basically though, my arms remained in the same position relative to the torso and to each other throughout. How can that be a bad position? Watch the left hand and arm. The back of the left hand remains perpendicular to it's arc. I just let momentum hinge it from there.

I would like for someone to show me the compensation I am making on the way down. I can't find it. All I can see is the right arm and hand making a bee line for the ball.

[iacas]

Respectfully, this is a square swing. The hands stay square to their arc.

Define what you mean by that, because honestly, at this point, they're just words. They don't mean anything.

That is an over riding force. it is impossible for the shaft to be pointing at the ball with the triangle in that position and the hand plane remain square to it's arc. Due to that factor, the measuring stick you apply is not valid. You are measuring against a different type of swing.

Yes, I'm measuring against a swing where the clubhead needs to meet the golf ball. It's most efficient when the clubhead gets on that plane early, because then force can be applied DOWN that plane, and not in an OFF-PLANE direction to compensate and send the clubhead out or in to get on that plane for the moment of impact.

Watch the left hand and arm. The back of the left hand remains perpendicular to it's arc. I just let momentum hinge it from there.

The back of your left hand does not stay perpendicular to the arc or the plane. If it did, it would be pointing down at the ground quite a bit.

I would like for someone to show me the compensation I am making on the way down. I can't find it. All I can see is the right arm and hand making a bee line for the ball.

See above. You need to make a compensation to get the sweet spot out to the golf ball.

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Please provide something with substance. You've just said a lot of words that don't mean much of anything at this point, and those that seem to mean anything seem to be your "feels" of what's happening, not what is actually happening.

I'm asking so this is your chance to provide what you believe are the answers.

Though, at this point, you should consider starting your own thread as it's getting OT for this thread.

[Vinsk]

@Joe Hill Hi Joe. When I pause your swing at the top of your backswing and place a straight edge along your club, the plane has your club arriving apprx 6" inside the ball. If your right hand/arm made a "bee line" for the ball....you'd be whiffing it. I'm looking for the compensation...but basic physics/mechanics show it's there.

[Joe Hill]

@Joe Hill

Hi Joe. When I pause your swing at the top of your backswing and place a straight edge along your club, the plane has your club arriving apprx 6" inside the ball.

If your right hand/arm made a "bee line" for the ball....you'd be whiffing it. I'm looking for the compensation...but basic physics/mechanics show it's there.

Thanks Vinsk. I don't see anything in the right arm per se. My hand plane may be a bit closed to it's path at the top, and it squares going down. That's all I can figure. I'm not going to mess much with it because I don't do anything with with the right arm; just turn my rib cage back down and the right arm does it's thing.

If I'm accurate, my first comment was correct. The left photo is a good and powerful right arm position; the hands maybe not so much.

[mvmac]

If I'm accurate, my first comment was correct. The left photo is a good and powerful right arm position; the hands maybe not so much.

Again, the left pic is generally not a "good" position for most golfers. This isn't my opinion, just the facts.

Unfortunately no one knows what you mean when you say stuff like, " hand plane may be a bit closed to it's path at the top, and it squares going down". The back of your left hand does not stay perpendicular to the arc or the plane. If this is something you want to elaborate on, please feel free to start a swing thread and discuss it as much as you want. For this thread, it's off topic.

[Joe Hill]

Again, the left pic is generally not a "good" position for most golfers. This isn't my opinion, just the facts.

"Most golfers" I agree with. That doesn't mean it isn't a good and powerful position.

[mvmac]

"Most golfers" I agree with. That doesn't mean it isn't a good and powerful position.

Most good golfers. We're not saying it can't work, just that you're dealing with more compensations when the shaft points inside the ball at A5. It's not a common position you see the best players in and there's a reason for that.

[BallMarker]

That's just way to much swing thought for my taste.

.

I try to think of these 3 things each time I'm addressing the ball on the course.

1) set the club at top

2) give your hips a little bump towards the target

3) gravity is my friend.

[Hennybogan007]

"the right/trail elbow stays high and back" - name the goon(s) that STILL claim this to be Mr. Hogan's "secret move"

[Wally]

So you hit your PW 150, uphill, and don't let your hands reach shoulder height? Does PW stand for something besides pitching wedge that I'm not aware of? Come on, man.

[quote name="Vinsk" url="/t/54238/elbow-position-and-its-effects-on-the-downswing/180#post_993967"]Correction: " I BLADED a PW 150yds uphill"[/quote] Haha you guys read my mind.

[No Mulligans]

From my observation it seems the good players get their trailing elbow against their body at A5.

I'm trying to get away from casting and over the top and want to get in that position.  I've started to practice with this swing thought, "start by sliding hips foward and at the same time move the trailing elbow to and touching my side".

I'm not sure if this is the proper approach.    Thoughts on this...

Here's some pictures of good players doing what I'm talking about:

[Golfingdad]

Get a pipoe or something similar (you could take a kids size 3 soccer ball and just deflate it a tad) fand make partial and/ slow swings while trying to hold it between your elbows.

[iacas]

From my observation it seems the good players get their trailing elbow against their body at A5.

Many do.

One of the ways to do it is to not get your elbow behind yourself too much.

Here's a video:

Here is a relevant thread:

[No Mulligans]

Thanks Erik, that thread you referenced is right on point... moving over there.

[iacas]

Thanks Erik, that thread you referenced is right on point... moving over there.

If you'd like me to merge these posts into that thread let me know.

[No Mulligans]

@iacas , Yes please merge them.  This thread is redundant.

[billchao]

Haven't visited this thread in a while. @iacas , have you moved on from a pitch elbow focus? I think you told me once that pitch elbow is overrated. Does the shaft position not being too steep in a "pinch" elbow position still rely on compensations to stay on plane?

[iacas]

Haven't visited this thread in a while. @iacas, have you moved on from a pitch elbow focus? I think you told me once that pitch elbow is overrated.

Does the shaft position not being too steep in a "pinch" elbow position still rely on compensations to stay on plane?

Not sure what you're asking.

Some players are better off in pitch elbow, some what I call "pinch," some are fine with punch. Very few get to push elbow and play well, but it's a spectrum, and all are okay depending on other things.