At what point does a range-finder or GPS actually help?

[Roblar]

I was just reading a 'recommend a range-finder' thread, and I wanted to post the following:

I'd recommend the Ecco Street Premiere range finder.

I wrote out a completely tongue-in cheek post and then deleted it because it wasn't really relevant to the thread.  But I was left with a question I'd like to pose to all of you:

At what point does a range-finder or GPS actually start to improve someone's game?

I've never really been interested in spending on a range-finder or GPS simply because I figured it wouldn't matter for me -- I can't hit the ball accurately enough to justifiably aim at a pin, so how can I justify a range finder?

...so I just pace off yardage from the 150 marker (or sprinkler heads, etc.) and aim for the center of the green (or somewhere between the center and the pin if I'm feeling adventurous).  The course I usually play marks 200-150-100 and *most* sprinkler heads, so I usually only have to pace off a few steps.

The only issues I have are when the only markers are on the cart path (or GPS in a cart - and I'm walking).  I don't play courses like that too often, and when I do I figure I'm just working on my 'feel'. (In other words, I just guess, and chances are that even if I knew the exact yardage, I'd still miss by just as much ...or more.)

So, put another way, how good would someone's game have to be for a range-finder (or GPS) to make a difference in scoring (compared to pacing off yardages)?

How consistent do you have to be with your distances?  with your aim?

Even with an inconsistent game, do you see any advantages for using a range-finder?  Any reasons to avoid one?

[Maverick]

Good question..I've owned numerous laser and GPS rangefinders..and to be honest..they really mattered only at places where there were no readily available yardage marker. I can't stand courses where they make/force you to buy a yardage book, ridiculous, or where they place those dumb "speed-bump" markers on the cart path.

Honestly, just give me the red, white and blue marker on the fairway..anyday..may be ugly..but they work...oh yeah..and to me..150, 153, 157, 158..all boil down to a 7 iron..unless you're reaching that tour consistent apex every swing..

To me red, white, blue flag on the green..yeah right..I aim for the meat (center) all the time..let's be real.  I ended up selling the rangefinders in the end..imho..and unless you really don't know the yardage..gimmicky.

[bradsul]

I bought a laser range-finder with some reward points from my credit card.  I used it quite a bit when I first got it but I stopped using it pretty quickly.  I do find that I like it at a course I've never played before, but it's usually to see how accurate the yardage markers are.  I find I enjoy estimating my own yardages, and after a while you get pretty good at it.

Actually the other use I have for it is the driving range.  I always take it so that I can see the actual yardages of the markers and greens.  My local range has a fixed yardage plaque they use to set the markers but they move the tee boxes around to preserve the grass.  You can be as much as 50 yards off the marker values.

[Doctorfro]

I have the Garmin S1 and I love just being able to look at my wrist and have a good general idea how far I'm hitting.  It's convenient and quick.  It's not always easy to know if the pin is front, middle or back but the watch makes things much easier overall.

[Grumpter]

Fairway to green they are nice to have. I really like knowing at a touch of the screen my distance to the front edge, back edge and center of the green. However, the real added benefit to me is shots not to the green.

Just for example I am on the tee box of a 320 posted yardage par 4, dogleg left with tree line on the left. I can see the from the tee box that the 100 yard marker is about even with the end of the tree line on the left. Normally I would hit an easy 3 wood trying to get to around the 100 yard marker leaving myself with an easy approach. However dialing up the hole on my GPS unit shows me it's only 175 to the end of the left hand tree line and 210 yards on the same line to go through the far side of the fairway. The 3 wood goes back in the bag and I hit the more appropriate (for me) 4 iron. If I hit the shot a little fat I should still be far enough to get past the tree line, If I get a little more roll than expected I shouldn't be through the fairway.

You still have to hit the shots it just makes it easier for you to determine what club will give you the higher percentage chance of leaving yourself in a good spot. It's very nice standing on the teebox knowing the fairway bunker starts at 205 yards and I only need 225 yards to clear it or that the water on a short par 4 comes into play at 240 yards or that my choices on a par 5 are to either lay up with a 150 club or use a club that will have at least 170 yards carry to clear the water.

[B-Con]

My local course has GPS on all the carts (walking not permitted). There are maps of each hole, with the pin locations, green, bunkers, and hazards mapped out. From your location, it gives you the distances to all the near/relevant things. It's like the ultimate range-finder. To be honest, I actually care about it the most with regards to water hazards and bunkers. I like knowing exactly how far I have to carry to clear a hazard, and I like knowing how much room I have to lay up in front of one. I like knowing whether a certain bunker is likely to come into play. I like knowing that 160 puts the ball at the pin and 180 puts the ball at the edge that will funnel down into the water. It sure beats guessing. Behind that, I use it primarily from 30 to 120 yards. Within 30 yards I can rely on eye estimates and feel, and farther than that, like you've said yourself (OP), I'm not accurate enough to care about my guess being off by 5 or so yards, a solid estimate from a marker is good enough for me. Don't get me wrong, I always use it if I had it, but it's only that 30 to 120 range that I really feel like I need it. So for me, I'd primarily use it around hazards and in pitching to 9-iron approach shots, and it would definitely be of some help. Can't say that assessing a pin at 70 vs 75 yards is going to effect my score much, but I think that knowing exact (non-guestimate) yardage does sometimes pay off. But how much? A stroke or two per round, tops. And after you learn a standard course (say, 5 rounds?), you know 90% of the hazard scenarios. If you know your yardages and are half-consistent within them, I'd say that it can help you with course management if nothing else. I know that my 4-hybrid off the tee will probably go 180 yards, but it could be as little as 170 or as much as 200. If I have water out at 200 yards, you better believe I'm taking that into account in my club and swing selection. And if I have to carry a hazard that reaches out to 150 yards in front of me, and I know I hit my 6-iron 155-165, you can also believe I'll be clubbing down. But again, you learn most of the important stuff pretty quickly if you play a course frequently.

[mymizunosrock]

I started using a GPS program on my phone about 12 months ago. Til that point, I had no idea how long our greens were. I always went off the fairway markers and hit to the middle of the green. When I started getting more consistent with my iron distances, I found that if a green was 25 meters long, I could hit 3 different clubs to the same green. Hitting to the right part of the green has made a huge difference to my game. Thankfully we have a marker on our flags that tells us the position as to whether the pin is at the front, in the middle or at the back. If you dont know where the flag is, then GPS is useless and range finders are better, until you find yourself behind trees or a hill.

[Jmdmbike]

One thing they are great for is figuring out how far you really hit your clubs. Takes a lot of the guesswork out of club selection. I also like to use mine more for seeing what distances I need to avoid hazards and trouble on the course, which I find helpful on the scorecard if I can avoid trouble.

[Fourputt]

I don't think that there is any particular time when a rangefinder becomes an asset to one's game.  Having accurate yardages may have more effect on the game of a low single digit handicapper than it does for a bogey or worse golfer, but simply having the confidence that one has the correct club for the shot can help steady the shaky nerves of the weaker player.  That can lead to fewer miss hits,which builds more confidence, etc. When playing an approach to a target with disaster both short and long, simply taking that variable out of the shot process can help any player.

Aside from that, when used properly, a GPS or laser can help to speed up  play over pacing from or searching for marked sprinklers.  Most guys I  know are already checking the distance as they stop at the ball, no delay at all with a well designed GPS.  Even if they have to take a sighting with a laser, it still only takes about 5-10 seconds.

So I fell that they can help most players, aside from the twice a year hacker who doesn't know how far he hits any club, and never hits any club the same distance twice anyway.

[imtomtomim]

I picked up a free app when I got a smartphone.  I've been wanting a laser rangefinder for a while, but when I got the phone, I said forget it, this is close enough.  It helped me find my carry numbers and my next step is to figure out precise partial swing numbers.  Maybe the exact number isn't what I really need, but it lets me know my percentages of risk and encourages me to play shots with the best chances.  Also, since I don't have an exact number to the pin, it got me playing to sections of the green.  That really got my scoring averages down, especially when I'm having those off days.

[rustyredcab]

Originally Posted by B-Con

...

To be honest, I actually care about it the most with regards to water hazards and bunkers. I like knowing exactly how far I have to carry to clear a hazard, and I like knowing how much room I have to lay up in front of one. I like knowing whether a certain bunker is likely to come into play. I like knowing that 160 puts the ball at the pin and 180 puts the ball at the edge that will funnel down into the water. It sure beats guessing....

+1

The OP has a point that if you can not control distance yet, middle of the green yardage is likely just fine. But knowing what to hit before going for the green is where I love to know distances. Nothing worse than a perfect second shot on a par 5 that goes too far and finds trouble you did not think you could reach. When I'm lucky enough to be a guest at a course with caddies, I am often challenging the caddies on par 5's by wanting to know what I have left when it is near 300 yards. "You have more than you can hit sir," is not the answer I want. I know I can not get on the green from 290 or 330 but that difference changes the club I chose to give me that 80 yard next shot.

from OP

So, put another way, how good would someone's game have to be for a range-finder (or GPS) to make a difference in scoring (compared to pacing off yardages)?

If your game is to the point of thinking your way around the course instead of hitting everything as far as you can until you are trying for the green, then some distance devise -- either GPS or Rangefinder -- will help. One of my good buddies is always trying to "get it down there as far as I can." I try to convince him (when we are partners) that he should take a club that can not reach the trouble. He often would rather bomb away in hopes of shaving 20 yards off his next shot than play it safe. Knowing exactly how far the bunker is does not help him. He's hitting 4-iron no matter what. Information is power only if you use the information.

[boogielicious]

I found it very useful when I was really learning the game last year.  My HC was around 20.  I didn't really know my club yardages and I would guess what to do.  As I started getting know my yardages, it really helped in the strategy for a hole from tee to green.  I would look at the hazards off the tee and pick my club.  For a lot of the courses I play, this often means a 3W or less off the tee to stay out of trouble and still have a decent approach shot.

For attacking the greens, center of the green distance only helped for me if I could get the ball to stick.  In the summer, when the greens are rock hard, the ball will roll out more, so knowing how far to carry the front of the green became important.  Sometime the best shot is just short of the green if the pin is up front.

I would say that it has made a big difference for me.  I don't always use it, but it helps a bunch.

[slabm7]

I just got a rangefinder this year and find it a great help in all aspects of my game.

- Off the tee it works great to see distances to or over hazards. If a bunker is 240 out I will put the drive away and pull a hybrid or 5 wood to come up short and take it out of play. It also works great to know how far you have to hit it to carry water/sand. My driver carries 240-250 so I know if its 260 over the water I lay up.

-Fairways, very helpful to get distances to pins and greatly helps with club selection. I found sprinkler heads are for the most part accurate on good courses but they give you to the middle of the green. But playing from 170 yards out its hard to see a accurate pin location whether it is front or back. Say your guess is 5 yards out on a sloping green or with a slight wind then that can turn into a full club. I find it even more helpful on Par 5's. It definetly helps you decide whether to lay up or go for the green in to. You can shoot hazards around the green.

-inside 100 yards. I know my 58 degree will go 80 yard with a comfortable 3/4 swing. Anything over that I have to club up or swing harder and lose some control. If I am say 50 yards it helps to give my an idea of how hard to swing. When you have a wedge in your hand there is a big difference from a 1/4 swing to a 1/2 swing.

A guy I play with regularly has had a GPS for the last couple years and after playing with me he bought a rangefinder.

[Divotmaker77]

Have the Skycaddie SGX.  Its biggest help to me is course management. Yeah, it helps seeing the distance to the flag, but where it really helps is when I need to either layup, go for it, etc. and I can see yardages to water hazards, sandtraps, and other kinds of trouble.  Although it never helps with my pathetic short game it does shave off 4-5 strokes per round because I play smarter shots.  That said, I know guys who seem to have a sixth sense in how they can calculate yardages to everything on the course and they do not need them.  Can't say I even close to that point yet.

[WUTiger]

Two times a rangefinder will help:

• Checking distance of irons and wedges. Go to an open field and set down your bag as the "known point." Then, hit five PWs at half and five at 3/4 swing. Go out to the balls (assuming you had reasonable shots), find "center mass" of the cluster, and point the rangefinder back to your bag. That can be the average distance for half and 3/4 swing with PW (and other wedges).
• Playing a course for the first time.  Some courses had a lot of dip and roll around the green, and mounds or rises right in front of or beside the putting surface. These mounds can hide the bottom foot or so of the pin from you. This makes it appear to be farther away, and can cause you to overclub. The rangefinder can get exact distance to the pin. Played a rolling course this past summer, and airmailed iron approaches over three greens because I didn't realize how close I was, with the bottom of the pin hidden.

[Kobey]

Glad you started this thread.  I had some questions as well but didn't want to change the subject in the other thread until I was sure the OP's original question had been answered completely.

I've been thinking about getting a GPS to learn how far I normally hit longer shots so I can start doing some course management.  I think rangefinders and GPS units are more helpful for the mid to high handicappers.  A beginner isn't going to need to worry about distances and I'd bet the better players can usually just tell by looking what club they will need in each situation.  But they would still come in handy on unfamiliar courses where hazards are too far away or hidden to judge properly.

Honestly, I don't know why people can't just look at the great maps they put on the scorecard and at the start of each hole and get all the information they need.

[RPMPIRE]

I've always been terrible at judging distance probably because I don't get to play as often as I used to. The rangefinder just makes it much easier to gauge distance, especially within 100 yards.

[GaijinGolfer]

IMO, once you get to the point where you know how far you hit each club a rangefinder helps.  That way, when you get the distance wrong you know that it was a result of a poor strike instead of misjudging distance.