Smart Phone GPS Now Not Allowed?

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by jgreen85

You've been 100% right on in this thread, except for this comment turtleback. I've provided a reason. It's because the gps/laser manufacturers were losing money to smartphones, so they lobbied the USGA to create a stupid rule. Just follow the money guys.

Here's the rule in practical terms: "You can use your smartphone for any and everything except for as a DMD. You need a dedicated device for that, or you, I suppose, can go old school."

I guess by logical I meant logical within the context of the rules.  In the wider context you may be correct, although I am reluctant to assign motivation in this case.

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

The funny thing is this new rule doesn't do anything to reduce cheating anyway, since it's unenforceable.

In fact it causes cheating, because any reasonable person would assume that using a DMD on a smartphone is fine, when in fact it isn't.  And even many of those who know are likely to ignore that ruling except in tournaments, as we have seen stated here repeatedly.  When ANY use is cheating under that ruling.

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Yep, I would agree with all that. I think their only failure is they didn't understand that the rule effectively bans use of all smartphones as DMDs because of the built-in illegal features they have.

That is a pretty big failure.  Hence the charge that the USGA/R&A; are out of touch with the technology.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by turtleback

In fact it causes cheating, because any reasonable person would assume that using a DMD on a smartphone is fine, when in fact it isn't.  And even many of those who know are likely to ignore that ruling except in tournaments, as we have seen stated here repeatedly.  When ANY use is cheating under that ruling.

I can attest to this.  Every round I've played thus far this year (7) has been with my smartphone as a DMD.  And this year I've decided to re-join the golf club that I was a part of two seasons ago.  But when I play in tournament events (especially NGCA qualifiers), I will not be able to use my phone unless I do so consciously as a cheater.

I feel compelled to "cheat" because I know I still won't be doing any actual cheating (using any banned features of a banned device) but instead I will simply be breaking a rule (using an allowable feature of a device that has banned features).  In my head, it's a victimless/harmless cheat, even though that is a slippery slope style of rationalization.

Brandon

[club ho]

Okay that was back in 1/25/12. Fast forward three years what is the current ruling on "Smart phones"?

[fr0sty]

Here is the USGA flow-chart on DMDs .

[club ho]

If I pay a caddie to walk the whole course and map it in a notebook which he brings to the course the day I play in a tournament. Is that any different than using a smartphone for the same information?

[club ho]

Here is the USGA flow-chart on DMDs.

Thank you Frosty that answers my question.

Speaking of frosty I think I am going to brave the Cape Cod elements and play some 37 degree golf.

[TimS65]

If I pay a caddie to walk the whole course and map it in a notebook which he brings to the course the day I play in a tournament. Is that any different than using a smartphone for the same information?

My thoughts exactly...

[fr0sty]

If I pay a caddie to walk the whole course and map it in a notebook which he brings to the course the day I play in a tournament. Is that any different than using a smartphone for the same information?

First, a GPS app on your phone does not provide the same information, it provides more.Your phone can give your a yardage from anywhere (adjacent fairway, for instance) and can do all the triangulation math for you.

Second, even if it is the 'same information', this is akin to the "gallery rule" lost ball justification. A tour pro can pay for a yardage book so I should be able to a phone as a substitute.

[DrvFrShow]

If you have to make a call on your S5, the Android OS automatically displays the time and weather conditions when you activate the phone. Of course, the weather conditions are at a particular weather station, AND NOT at the golf course, unless they have a weather station there broadcasting information to your mobile provider. And those conditions are NOT current. They are updated every 30 minutes. They don't give the winds unless you drill down. Especially when that information is from a weather station 10 miles away.

Knowing that the temperature is 90 F outside is really not going to help you that much. All I know is that it is damned hot on the fairway in the sun. My ball is probably going to carry another 10 yds. Because the ball is warmer, the outer surface may be softer, too. Knowing that it is 90 F, however, will let me know that it is probably about 110 F on the fairway and alert me that I need to take in more fluids - if that is cheating **** 'em. It's a medical reason. I've had a heat stroke before. One gets confused and actually will forget to take in fluids.

And here is the funny thing.... At three golf courses in my are, if you walk by the pro shop at the start of your round, between the 9th and 10th hole you will see a thermometer displaying temperature. And you can find out from the beverage cart! So, is that any different than looking it up on your phone? I really don't think so.

[club ho]

First, a GPS app on your phone does not provide the same information, it provides more.Your phone can give your a yardage from anywhere (adjacent fairway, for instance) and can do all the triangulation math for you.

Second, even if it is the 'same information', this is akin to the "gallery rule" lost ball justification. A tour pro can pay for a yardage book so I should be able to a phone as a substitute.

I maybe missing something here but according to the flow sheet you posted its okay to use a smartphone so long as it only gives you information about distances and does not give club recommendations.

[club ho]

First, a GPS app on your phone does not provide the same information, it provides more.Your phone can give your a yardage from anywhere (adjacent fairway, for instance) and can do all the triangulation math for you.

Second, even if it is the 'same information', this is akin to the "gallery rule" lost ball justification. A tour pro can pay for a yardage book so I should be able to a phone as a substitute.

I beg to differ albeit it depends on how thorough a job your caddie does. Good caddies walk the course as well as often walk off distances on demand. Also good caddies have intimate knowledge of the greens. I haven't seen a phone app that does that yet. Distance determination is not very hard IMO find a marked sprinkler head and your in business. The advantage of the GPS is it saves time. Something that the industry is constantly trying to improve upon.

[drifterdon]

I find the weather apps on my phone to be just as inaccurate as TV to radio.

I don't see how they would help at all.

[Asheville]

I find the weather apps on my phone to be just as inaccurate as TV to radio.

I don't see how they would help at all.

It's not about weather forecasting. It's about measuring or gauging current conditions in your location.

[Rulesman]

I find the weather apps on my phone to be just as inaccurate as TV to radio.

I don't see how they would help at all.

The weather on your app is probably from the same source as the tv or radio.

[sjduffers]

Here is the NCGA (Northern CA) view on this:

http://www.ncga.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NCGAPhoneClarification.pdf

A weather app (or level app) per se is not a reason enough to be non-conforming. So for all intents and purposes, a smartphone is legal, unless the app measuring distance also does something else (such as recommending a club)...

[iacas]

A weather app (or level app) per se is not a reason enough to be non-conforming. So for all intents and purposes, a smartphone is legal, unless the app measuring distance also does something else (such as recommending a club)...

No, it's not. But… most smart phones have a gyroscope in them, and that can be used to measure slope (particularly on the green), and you're best advised to NOT use your smart phone because a fellow competitor has no idea what app you're using.

The USGA's stance on this is, I believe, a bit stricter than shown in that PDF.

[sjduffers]

No, it's not. But… most smart phones have a gyroscope in them, and that can be used to measure slope (particularly on the green), and you're best advised to NOT use your smart phone because a fellow competitor has no idea what app you're using.

The USGA's stance on this is, I believe, a bit stricter than shown in that PDF.

At least the iPhone, but perhaps others, has a level functionality (using gyroscope, accelerometer and whatever other gizmo needed) built into the compass application (swipe right to get the second screen with the level) and a weather app, both of which cannot be deleted from the phone as they are part of the phone's OS. Yes, if you put that phone down on the green, you are suspect, but otherwise, the NCGA says you are Ok. And with the NCGA representing a large portion of the golfers under the USGA's jurisdiction, I would highly doubt that they have a different stance on the DMD local rule than the USGA. They just bothered to spell it out better... For high-level state and national tournaments (which I'll never be in), the DMD local rule is not in effect anyway, and you can't use a GPS, a rangefinder or anything but a yardage book...

IMHO, of course. And since I am in the NCGA territory, I will do as they say.  Actually, I won't, as I use a rangefinder instead (a legal one) when the local rule about DMD is in effect (ie. in every tournament I have been playing and every tournament I ever plan on playing). But I am not getting my panties in a wad if a fellow competitor uses an iPhone as long as they do not put it down on the green trying to figure out the slope...

[iacas]

At least the iPhone, but perhaps others, has a level functionality (using gyroscope, accelerometer and whatever other gizmo needed) built into the compass application (swipe right to get the second screen with the level) and a weather app, both of which cannot be deleted from the phone as they are part of the phone's OS. Yes, if you put that phone down on the green, you are suspect, but otherwise, the NCGA says you are Ok. And with the NCGA representing a large portion of the golfers under the USGA's jurisdiction, I would highly doubt that they have a different stance on the DMD local rule than the USGA. They just bothered to spell it out better... For high-level state and national tournaments (which I'll never be in), the DMD local rule is not in effect anyway, and you can't use a GPS, a rangefinder or anything but a yardage book...

IMHO, of course. And since I am in the NCGA territory, I will do as they say.  Actually, I won't, as I use a rangefinder instead (a legal one) when the local rule about DMD is in effect (ie. in every tournament I have been playing and every tournament I ever plan on playing). But I am not getting my panties in a wad if a fellow competitor uses an iPhone as long as they do not put it down on the green trying to figure out the slope...

I'm just saying that it seems to have changed, then, because the Leopold GX-4 was illegal even though you had to physically change the hardware (the circuitry was inside the main part - the faceplate just completed a circuit). That was illegal, even though it was a physical change and not just "don't access a bad app." So… Again, either the rules were loosened or something else is going on.

That's why even if I was in NCGA, I would not use my iPhone during a round. Someone might take issue with it, even if they're wrong. I'll stick with my USGA approved laser range finder and leave it at that.