Ft Worth golfer in serious condition as a result of slow play argument

[bplewis24]

Jamo, that entire article is actually a pretty tough--but compelling--read.

[Beachcomber]

Sad story.

Golf can be a silly game - and you really have to be careful what you say and do on the course....

This past Thanksgiving I went back to AZ to hang with family and friends.  I was playing golf with a few buddies and we were behind a foursome.  After finishing our putts on the 3rd green, we go to the 4th tee box and there is a wide open fairway.

I hit my tee shot well - and in the fairway.  Then one of my buddies hits his tee shot - and as the ball is in the air, this cart comes driving up over the hill from the right (from another hole) and right into the 4th fairway... And the ball that was in flight nearly hits their cart.  Then the next thing we know - the 2nd cart comes from the same place as the 1st cart.  So the 3rd guy in our foursome waits to see what the heck is going on... Well what happened was the guys that were in front of us - they must of hit errant tee shots over the hill on the right side of the fairway - into another hole/fairway - so we didn't even see them.

Well the foursome in front of us was pissed off and drove up to my golf ball and picked it up... This is when I yelled... 'What are you doing!?' - literally they are 250+ up the fairway but I yelled really loud so they could hear.

The next thing I know - two of the dudes out in the fairway start driving their cart back to the 4th tee box where we were all standing... It was like slow motion, and I could just see these dudes wanted to throw down.  They whip their cart up by the tee and jump out and start walking up.  I just sit there and stare at him and say... Bud, what are you picking my ball up for in the middle of the fairway?  It's obvious we didn't see you guys over the hill to the right - we thought we had an open hole in front of us and started to tee off. Sorry about that...

These two guys started bitching at me about hitting into them - and I apologized to them and assured them we didn't mean to hit them, but was upset that they picked up my drive.  They ended up accepting my apology and jumping back int their cart... But I really thought the way they came all the way back that they wanted to throw down.

I'm sure if I handled it differently, there would've been a fight... And I probably shouldn't have yelled in the first place...

[bplewis24]

I don't think you did anything particularly wrong there.  They should have enough awareness to realize they were well outside of the fairway and sometimes it just can't be known that the group in front is still in range unless they leave a cart in the fairway.

[k-troop]

Self defense might be available in this case, or it might not.

You're legally barred from claiming self defense if you were the "first aggressor."  It's hard to tell who started this fight, but my guess would be someone in the foursome started it.

Even if you have the right to use force in self defense, you don't have the right to escalate to deadly force if you are being threatened with non-deadly force.  A fist-fight will be considered non-deadly force in all but the most extreme circumstances.

My guess is that everyone in the group was read their rights, and most didn't want to say anything until they talked to a lawyer.  They very clearly did everything they could to save the guy, which is good for the guy who did the stabbing.

[colin007]

Originally Posted by k-troop

A fist-fight will be considered non-deadly force in all but the most extreme circumstances.

that would be any fight that Chuck Norris is involved in.

[WWBDD]

This thread reminds me a lot of the slow play thread where posters have bragged about hitting into groups, or the club throwing temper tantrum thread.

WTF?

It's a leisurely round of golf.

[x129]

Imagine that some guy with 50lbs on you jumps on you and starts wailing on your face. You reach out and grab a golf club and try and knock him off. Sounds pretty reasonable (i.e. I wouldn't expect hitting someone in the area below the head to be fatal) to me in most cases. The level in most states is not deadly force but serious injuries. Obviously this varies quite a bit from state to state.

As you said though if you instigated the fight by swinging a golf club at someones head (may or may not have happened. I could imagine some one pointing their driver at someones head and saying some choice words. The other guy grapping it and  breaking the club and brawl starting because the guy is pissed about his $400 club) it is going to be hard to argue that you didn't start off with deadly force. Of course it may have been the stabber's friend who swung the club and the "victim" jumped on the wrong guy.

Originally Posted by k-troop

Self defense might be available in this case, or it might not.

You're legally barred from claiming self defense if you were the "first aggressor."  It's hard to tell who started this fight, but my guess would be someone in the foursome started it.

Even if you have the right to use force in self defense, you don't have the right to escalate to deadly force if you are being threatened with non-deadly force.  A fist-fight will be considered non-deadly force in all but the most extreme circumstances.

My guess is that everyone in the group was read their rights, and most didn't want to say anything until they talked to a lawyer.  They very clearly did everything they could to save the guy, which is good for the guy who did the stabbing.

[Stretch]

I'm genuinely surprised that no one went back to their bag for a gun. Texas must be going soft, yo.

[jetsknicks1]

What the hell is wrong with people!? I don't think I want to live on this planet anymore.

[bplewis24]

There isn't much fighting on Venus.

[WWBDD]

Originally Posted by Stretch

I'm genuinely surprised that no one went back to their bag for a gun. Texas must be going soft, yo.

Good one.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by jetsknicks1

What the hell is wrong with people!? I don't think I want to live on this planet anymore.

That's a little harsh - did you bet on the Patriots?

[ghalfaire]

Just stupid how something like this could happen.  But you see it all the time where someone just becomes enraged and can't keep control even when the other fellow is trying to back off.  Just stupid and now likely two people will have their lives changed forever.

[jetsknicks1]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

There isn't much fighting on Venus.

But do they have golf?

[jetsknicks1]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

That's a little harsh - did you bet on the Patriots?

LOL. I cannot bring myself to cheer or bet on the Pats.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by jetsknicks1

But do they have golf?

Not sure what the courses are like, but I'll bet you can drive it well over 300 yards there pretty consistently.

[1par2win]

Originally Posted by Chief Broom

Road rage, bar fights, you name it and one thing people have always been good at is being stupid.

I'm a member of a league with a lot of retirees.  You'd be surprised how many of those guys routinely carry a gun in their bag.  It can make sense when you think about it because a lot of urban courses run through bad neighborhoods.  I've even heard of guys being held up on the golf course and whenever something like that happens you can bet course regulars take whatever precautions they deem necessary.  I also think that older golfers might feel threatened if they got into some kind of verbal exchange with a group of younger guys, and as others in this thread have said disagreements on the course, while not the norm, do happen.  The truth is you face this situation anywhere.  You never really know who it is you're messing with.  Sometimes it's someone like you who is irritated and just thinks they are sticking up for themselves.  But sometimes the dude you're messing with is having a really bad day and happens to like the idea of taking that out on someone else.  As long as it remains the typical shouting and shoving match then no big deal, but there are people in the world who feel like their life is up against it and they've got nothing to lose.  That's the guy you might not want to ride too hard, and you can't always figure out who that guy is until he goes postal on you...

I'm surprised by the article that the police aren't pressing assault and obstruction charges against everyone involved for not coming clean about what took place.

This is truth. My wife's uncle is a police capt and one thing he tells people over and over is do not get into a road rage incident. He said that from what he has witnessed and his fellow officers you would not believe how many people have a loaded gun sitting next to them while in the car. And this is in Minnesota and in the suburbs! So when you see something that is blatantly the fault of the other driver I would recommend going to your happy place and do not get into a pissing match. I'm 42 years old and if it's one thing I learned is unless it's a direct threat to me or someone else I do not get into verbal assaults with anyone. Better to be called a %$#@! and walk away. Too many people walking around with big time chips on their shoulders. You get into it with one of them and you just don't know how it's going to end.

[The Recreational Golfer]

If someone is truly being a snail and telling you to Shove it,  just get out your cell phone, call the number on the scorecard, and get someone from the clubhouse to come out and deal with it.