Tiger Wants to Ban the Long Putter

[Floridahack]

The long putter didn't seem to help Adam Scott the last 4 holes.

[newtogolf]

Maybe not, but it helped Els.

Originally Posted by Floridahack

The long putter didn't seem to help Adam Scott the last 4 holes.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I haven't seen anyone relate Jack's recent comments from February this year, but here they are to add to the discussion.

Thanks for sharing Jack's comments.  I'd be interested to read a follow-up now that there are 3 major winners in the last four using the long putter.  And see if his feeling on the subject has changed.

[Texian]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

Anchored is if any part of the putter, shaft, or hands are firmly against the body. Its pretty damn simple to define.

Not so "damn simple." What about forearm or wrist? Where does the hand end and wrist begin?

That's why trying to legislate against "anchoring" will open a huge can of worms.

Now, I do agree on the 48-inch maximum as it relates to measuring for a drop. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[JesseV]

While we're at it.... Ban all metal woods.  Go back to playing persimmons and blades like real men and the greatest ball strikers of all time did!

460CC Frying pan on the end of a stick.... Now thats cheating!

[GaryH]

I agree with Tiger.

I like Els' honestly on this matter.  But even though it's legal perhas he should still have not used it given he believes it's not in the spirit of the game?  Difficult one, as i can also accept his view that it's legal so why put himself at a disadvantage by not using it.  However, it's not as if lots of other players are using it and therefore putting non-users at a disadvantage.  Most players still use a normal putter.  That raises an interesting issue: I wonder if that's because they think a long/anchored putter is 'wrong' or if they don't think they putt better with it?  Would be interested to get a survey done on that.

[GaryH]

On a related note, i recall Tiger saying he wanted to ban wedges over a certain loft (probably 56 iirc).  His argument being, now everyone can play Seve-esque shots, the skill needed to play them is lessened which reduces the (fair) advantage that a skilled wedge player should be entitled to.

I also agree with his views here.

[Goldigger]

I am torn  on the subject as well. The problem I foresee is that the rules making committee's have waited way to long to address this issue. I as a 5 handicap golfer saw it coming, why was it not addressed 5 to 10 years ago. The great thing about golf is that everyone plays by the same rules so if your going to change any of the rules please don't say pros cant do it but amateurs can us them. That is where we cross the line of the game that it is not the same for everyone that plays and personally I think that is what makes it the greatest game in the world.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Personally I have no problem with the long putters that are not anchored, so I need no such definition.  If a putter touches only the hands I have no problem with it.  It is not the length, per se, it is the non-traditional aspect of anchoring that I oppose.  Anchoring should be banned on the same basis that croquet putting was banned, IMO

Wow, someone who knows about the rules of croquet!  Nice analogy.

I agree with you about anchoring the putter in golf - and croquet - Just Say No!   And I say this knowing that some of the older players will end up on the Senior Tour sooner as a result.  So be it.

Ernie was right to use a long anchored putter even though he thinks this shouldn't be allowed.  There's nothing in the least inconsistent about that.  Which reminds me ..... Well Done Ernie!!

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Chas

Wow, someone who knows about the rules of croquet!  Nice analogy.

???

My comment did not bear on the rules of croquet, it bore on the rules of golf.  In the 50s or 60s Sam Snead starting putting croquet style, straddling the line of the putt.  This was quickly disallowed.  Just as "putting" pool style is not allowed.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by turtleback

???

No kidding.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by turtleback

???

My comment did not bear on the rules of croquet, it bore on the rules of golf.  In the 50s or 60s Sam Snead starting putting croquet style, straddling the line of the putt.  This was quickly disallowed.  Just as "putting" pool style is not allowed.

Thanks for explaining.  I've never heard the term "croquet putting" and thought you were making an analogy with the other game, in which anchoring is not allowed I believe, but holding the mallet as in golf is allowed but rarely seen on the lawn.

[iacas]

Here's what Peter Dawson has to say about the update(s):

Quote:

PETER DAWSON: The situation is that the R&A; and the USGA are ‑‑ do have this subject firmly back on the radar.  We appreciate that there is much speculation about this and that we need to clarify the position as soon as possible.  And I think you're going to see us saying something about it one way or the other in a few months rather than years.

There are still further meetings to be had, so we're just going to have to be patient I'm afraid and wait and see the outcome.  But as you know, it is under active discussion.

Q.  Could you share at least who's involved in these meetings?

PETER DAWSON:  Well, the initial determination has been that we are examining the subject from a method of stroke standpoint rather than length of putter standpoint, and that takes it into the area of the rules of play, the rules of golf, rather than the rules of equipment.  And therefore it's the rules of golf committees of the R&A; and the USGA who are looking at this in detail, and then they have to make their recommendations to the boards of each organisation.

Q.  Some would say if Adam Scott won, it would have been the lesser of the two evils, using that broom handle putter.  Is it fair to say it is anchoring more than anything, and if action is going to be taken it would be more against belly than broom handle?

PETER DAWSON:  No, anchoring is what we're looking at, method of stroke, and it's all about putting around a fixed pivot point, whether that fixed pivot point is in your belly or under your chin or on your chest.  I don't distinguish between the two.  It's a matter of stroke issue.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by iacas

Here's what Peter Dawson has to say about the update(s):

So no more anchoring...

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

So no more anchoring...

It seems like they are leaning that way.

Which means belly putters (Angel Cabrera) and long putters (I can't think of anyone) will still be legal if they're not "anchored." It seems they're going after the method, not the equipment themselves, which is fine. Frankly, it might be brilliant, because then manufacturers can't complain (i.e. sue) because the equipment wasn't legislated.

What I wonder is whether someone like Matt Kuchar's stroke or Bernhard Langer's stroke (anchored to his forearm) will be legal. Maybe anything below the elbow won't count, or maybe it'll be below the wrist?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by iacas

What I wonder is whether someone like Matt Kuchar's stroke or Bernhard Langer's stroke (anchored to his forearm) will be legal. Maybe anything below the elbow won't count, or maybe it'll be below the wrist?

Good question, in that style would you call the pivot point fixed?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Good question, in that style would you call the pivot point fixed?

I would not. They're just finding a way of locking one of the wrists (and partially locking the other since it'd require elbow movement to move the other wrist). It may or may not be anchoring - I could see that going either way. If they say "elbow or below" then both are fine. If they say wrists or below then that's just the hands and would allow for any and all of the existing grips.

Someone said somewhere that if they ban anchoring we'll just see a lot of people doing side-saddle putting. I don't know about that, but frankly, I don't care if we see that too. It's still a "stroke." I have a "side-saddle" pitch shot I like to play off steep downhill lies. Looks goofy, works well. I think the fact that it looks really goofy will prevent a lot of people from trying it, though, Sam Snead precedent or not.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by iacas

Someone said somewhere that if they ban anchoring we'll just see a lot of people doing side-saddle putting. I don't know about that, but frankly, I don't care if we see that too. It's still a "stroke." I have a "side-saddle" pitch shot I like to play off steep downhill lies. Looks goofy, works well. I think the fact that it looks really goofy will prevent a lot of people from trying it, though, Sam Snead precedent or not.

It would be interesting to see if they banned anchoring today what Webb and Keegan would do since it's become so normal for them.  Hypothetical of course since the new rule wouldn't take effect for a few years.  I think they've been putting with a belly putter since their college days.  I figure they would go to an Angel style.