Augusta May Have To Admit Its First Woman Member

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by limoric

I hope they admit her, then snub her; make an example of her. Put a womans sign on a broom closet door. Of course it would be much different if we were talking about a public institution. Would it be cool if Augusta changed their policy? Sure, but it is certainly not up to the public to decide...

Wow, massive loss of respect for you and two posters that preceded you.

She isn't agitating for membership, so why should they snub her?

And the other 2 guys are just misogynistic chauvinistic pigs, IMO.  One applauds a sign saying "Iron my shirt bitch" and the other one thinks it is funny.  I'm sure their moms are very proud.

[brocks]

Getting back to the most important point, which is how things affect ME: if IBM is going to put pressure on ANGC about something, I'd rather it be to allow more TV time for the Masters, than to make their CEO a member. We typically get at least 8 hours of live coverage per day for the other majors: the Masters will have as little as 3-1/2 hours on Saturday.

[Tomboys]

In 2002, when Burke tried to leverage the committee by "threatening" their corporate sponsors, Johnson decided to broadcast The 2003 Masters without corporate sponsorships (IBM, Coca-Cola and Citibank).  The committee absorbed the entire cost of televising the event.  So, I don't think ANGC will be forced to do anything they don't want to anytime soon.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Wow, massive loss of respect for you and two posters that preceded you.

She isn't agitating for membership, so why should they snub her?

And the other 2 guys are just misogynistic chauvinistic pigs, IMO.  One applauds a sign saying "Iron my shirt bitch" and the other one thinks it is funny.  I'm sure their moms are very proud.

It's hilarious, actually.

Try to follow this reasoning - If there are people that have nothing better to do than to protest a private club doing, essentially, nothing wrong - certainly nothing illegal - then yeah, try something more productive. Extra starch, please.

You call it mysoginistic. Cuz of the use of the word 'bitch'...? Okay, I can see that. So if that word was omitted, would you find it funny? If yes, cool.

If no, lighten up.

And don't trot out the 'women have suffered the indignities of men for centuries' line of reasoning. I know they have. I just don't categorize not being allowed to be a member of a very private golf club in the deep south as one of the more heinous affronts. It's actually pretty damn trivial. Thus the humor of the sign.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Tomboys

In 2002, when Burke tried to leverage the committee by "threatening" their corporate sponsors, Johnson decided to broadcast The 2003 Masters without corporate sponsorships (IBM, Coca-Cola and Citibank).  The committee absorbed the entire cost of televising the event.  So, I don't think ANGC will be forced to do anything they don't want to anytime soon.

I think we can agree on that.  They will do things the way they want to and when they want to.  Changes will come from within.

And as somebody already pointed out, this isn't really a media issue, this is an internal issue to begin with: two of their traditions/policies/precedents are colliding with each other through no outside influence (unless you believe IBM purposely named a female CEO just to test out the ANGC).

Brandon

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

It's hilarious, actually.

Try to follow this reasoning - If there are people that have nothing better to do than to protest a private club doing, essentially, nothing wrong - certainly nothing illegal - then yeah, try something more productive. Extra starch, please.

You call it mysoginistic. Cuz of the use of the word 'bitch'...? Okay, I can see that. So if that word was omitted, would you find it funny? If yes, cool.

If no, lighten up.

And don't trot out the 'women have suffered the indignities of men for centuries' line of reasoning. I know they have. I just don't categorize not being allowed to be a member of a very private golf club in the deep south as one of the more heinous affronts. It's actually pretty damn trivial. Thus the humor of the sign.

It's trivial in the big picture but if it's true that she was not offered the same privilege as previous make IBM CEO's then we know that she is being discriminated against due to her sex. ANGC has the right as a private club to do so but this would cause me to have even less regard for how they conduct their business than I already have, which is to say very little. Of course they could give two craps about what I think but that is what makes their attitude so poor IMO.

[Soapy The Clown]

She will never become a member at Augusta.  The membership would shutdown the course to the public and the Masters before that would ever occur.

[Tomboys]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I think we can agree on that.  They will do things the way they want to and when they want to.  Changes will come from within.

And as somebody already pointed out, this isn't really a media issue, this is an internal issue to begin with: two of their traditions/policies/precedents are colliding with each other through no outside influence (unless you believe IBM purposely named a female CEO just to test out the ANGC).

Brandon

From what I've read, it's a media issue raised by Burke.  She's the impetus.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Tomboys

From what I've read, it's a media issue raised by Burke.  She's the impetus.

No that's not true.  She may have seen a headline grabbing opportunity to make some more noise and joined "the fight", but the issue is (or was, maybe not any more) simply that ANGC has 2 traditions which they now cannot possibly keep.  One is excluding women, the other is including the IBM CEO, and now that the IBM CEO is a woman, they can only keep one.

But I can't disagree with many who suggest that if Burke is involved again, that pride and not allowing anybody else trying to tell them what to do could influence their decision.  Whereas, if it was not made into an issue, they could have very quietly, and on their own terms, admitted her (Rometty).  Now, if they do, people might say they were pressured, so that just adds to their dilemma.

[brocks]

But I can't disagree with many who suggest that if Burke is involved again, that pride and not allowing anybody else trying to tell them what to do could influence their decision.

Not to pick on you, because a lot of people say the same thing, but shouldn't grown men be above that "Leave It To Beaver" level of reverse psychology? "Hey Beaver, I bet you don't have the guts to drive your dad's car around the block." "Oh yeah, Eddie? Just watch me!"

[clubchamp]

I think one big thing that is being over looked is that Rometty from what I've read isn't really into golf. If that's the case she probably wouldn't care one way or the other if she gets an invite so I just think it's not going to be an issue with IBM and ANGC. The media is all over it because it's a great story and Burke jumped in because it was an opportunity. I would have to think as the times change at ANGC eventually women will be allowed but as long as Billy Payne is there it's not going to happen.

[Shindig]

First things first, even if Augusta accepts the IBM CEO for inclusion, would she be the first female member? All we know for certain about their membership is that [i]at one particular moment in time[/i] the known membership was all male. We don't know if there have been female members in the past (and, given the club's policy of not discussing these issues in public, we won't know). And we don't know if a female has joined since that date. More importantly, hasn't Dr. Rice been seen around the club quite a bit since she left office? I wouldn't be surprised if she joined since then; she's everything that they look for in a member: influential, intelligent, and soft-spoken. Plus she loves golf. And I can't see them making a press conference about it or anything - why would they?

[AmazingWhacker]

This sort of stuff seems to come up every year at Master's time and I'm actually surprised that ANGC hasn't changed thier policies already.  I whole-heartedly disagree with the statement by some posters here that ANGC doesnt need The Masters and The Masters doesn't need big sponsors.  The membership may be fantastically rich but they didn't get that way by cutting thier noses off to spite thier own faces . .which is exactly what they'd be doing if they dropped The Masters rather than give in to social pressures.  If Augusta National didn't hold The Masters it would pretty soon cease to be "Augusta National" and instead just be some super-priveledged country club of which there are dozens if not hundreds in the country just like it.

The Master's is probably the tournament most watched by non-golf fans.  I can't guess at a percentage but I bet it's a pretty large portion of the viewing audience that has no idea that Augusta doesn't allow women members (and only fairly recently allowed minority members).  You can bet Jim Nantz won't mention it during coverage.  Maybe ANGC can do what it pleases legally, but if the word gets out enough about these things, then they could find themselves under significant financial pressure to change.  Again, the members there didn't get rich by ignoring financial pressure . .so my bet is that change is on the horizon even for stodgy old Augusta National.

It is my own personal view (and has been for years) that Augusta sucks and The Masters should be pulled from there and replaced with a 4th Major to be held somewhere else.  I'm not crazy enough to think that will happen anytime soon but I am sure I am not the only hard core golf fan that is more or less disgusted by Augusta National.  I will still watch The Masters, of course.

Also, I did find that Iron My Shirt picture pretty funny.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by brocks

Not to pick on you, because a lot of people say the same thing, but shouldn't grown men be above that "Leave It To Beaver" level of reverse psychology?

"Hey Beaver, I bet you don't have the guts to drive your dad's car around the block."

"Oh yeah, Eddie? Just watch me!"

Yes, they certainly should, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they all are.  (Not to pick on you , but if Eddie Haskel was trying to goad a Cleaver into driving his dad's car around the block, wouldn't it be Wally?)

Originally Posted by Shindig

First things first, even if Augusta accepts the IBM CEO for inclusion, would she be the first female member? All we know for certain about their membership is that at one particular moment in time the known membership was all male. We don't know if there have been female members in the past (and, given the club's policy of not discussing these issues in public, we won't know). And we don't know if a female has joined since that date.

More importantly, hasn't Dr. Rice been seen around the club quite a bit since she left office? I wouldn't be surprised if she joined since then; she's everything that they look for in a member: influential, intelligent, and soft-spoken. Plus she loves golf. And I can't see them making a press conference about it or anything - why would they?

The author of the story I read originally suggested they admit her (Rometty) in that exact way - quietly, without fanfare, etc.  Wouldn't that be funny, and also kind of stick it to the Martha Burke types if they did exactly that already with Dr. Rice?

[trickymicky69]

Even if they did shut their doors forever and the tournament was never televised again, you would have people queueing to the moon in thunder and lightning to join up.

Who wouldn't like to play their?

My wife goes to an all women Yoga group, does it mean I should be able to go as it "infringes my rights"?

The members aren't interested in public image or money as most of them are retired anyway.

If they did stop the sponsorship it would only add to the mystique of the place

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by trickymicky69

Even if they did shut their doors forever and the tournament was never televised again, you would have people queueing to the moon in thunder and lightning to join up.

Who wouldn't like to play their?

My wife goes to an all women Yoga group, does it mean I should be able to go as it "infringes my rights"?

The members aren't interested in public image or money as most of them are retired anyway.

If they did stop the sponsorship it would only add to the mystique of the place

You can have a women's yoga class and a men's yoga class and they would be equal. Unless there's an identical Augusta National for women only your analogy does not hold water.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by clubchamp

I think one big thing that is being over looked is that Rometty from what I've read isn't really into golf. If that's the case she probably wouldn't care one way or the other if she gets an invite so I just think it's not going to be an issue with IBM and ANGC. The media is all over it because it's a great story and Burke jumped in because it was an opportunity. I would have to think as the times change at ANGC eventually women will be allowed but as long as Billy Payne is there it's not going to happen.

I've read Rometty is an occasional golfer. Half of the members at ANGC are occasional golfers and many rarely set foot on the course. She's no different than they are and should be afforded the same opportunity (if it turns out she hasn't already been offered or will not be offered).

[Lefty-Golfer]

IBM is sponsor because they think they can be profitable with the company target demographic at the masters...that same demographic does give a damn about the CEO being a member....if IBM moves on they will simply find a new sponsor. it really is fairly simple, they don't claim to be anything other then a golf club that hosts the best pro event of the year. actually i guess they don't claim that they just let the reputation grow and others like myself say that.

i would love to be a member at a males only club...most guys would. virtually every course i have played on the one universal truth is you don't ever want to go off behind a group of ladies. some of them are fine and actualy play quite well but that is not the rule. call it sexist, old fashion, out of touch or whatever just also call it the truth and honest.