Is it really all about the long ball ??

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by nachosgrande

It's not all about the long ball or accuracy...it's about both.  You remove either from the equation and you can kiss a good score goodbye on a reasonably long course (say, 6700+).

I think it depends on what tee's you play from .... after all, most guys play whites, which are usually less than the 6700 yards you referenced.        If your choice is to play blues, sure you need distance.     Whites, not so much, which is where my arguement for accuracy over length holds water.

In reality, this whole discussion may ultimately come down to what tee's you chose to play, guys that play blues, need length ... those that play white's, don't need to bomb it, but still need average length.     I favor the short and controlled game to score well, but this only applies to the white tee's.     Maybe I should get the award for the most blindingly obvious, but there you have it ... better bring the long ball if you chose to play the blue tee's; white's - us average joe's need to hone up those mid irons & hybrids for a quality 2nd shot.

[sean_miller]

"Scoring well" is also relative.

[onthetee]

Agree with "it's both".

Very low scores (65-69) usually come from long shots to the fairway, hitting greens & putting well.

Low scores (70-76) usually come from those days when you don't have everything working but you can chip, pitch & putt well.

Decent scores (77-80) usually come from many inconsistent areas in your game, usually chipping & putting.

Higher scores (85+) usually come from not enough practice. Go to the short game area as often as you can for 1-2 hours.

Having said that, I regularly play with an older guy (71) who can dink it out there 210 yards then hit hybrid or fairway wood to the green and putt like he's been playing 50+ years. He shoots 74-80 all the time. He plays everyday. It's really all about playing as much as you can & practice, practice, PRACTICE.

[LuciusWooding]

I would take the distance. There are a lot of things a big hitter can do with a golf ball that are difficult or downright impossible to do without a powerful swing. It gives you options a short hitter won't have; a short hitter can't afford to miss a fairway almost ever, since he lacks power and control out of the rough. If he does miss 10% of fairways, his chances at par or even bogey on those holes are slim. Someone with good power can think about firing at the green, even from a bunker or rough, and possibly manage a birdie or have an up and down for par unless they hit a bad shot. Even if they do, they will be able to advance the ball closer than a short hitter from that lie. It doesn't mean you can shoot the ball clean through a tree trunk, but perhaps you can hit a wedge over it that the short hitter would have to go around in 2 shots or shape something.

Then there's spin generation, hitting a high ball, fighting wind, and overcoming forced carries. Any short hitter would rather take a 30 yard slice over the green rather than a drowned ball on a water carry. So I say distance isn't about reaching par 5s, it benefits one's iron game much more, assuming all things are equal. Long par 3s are bogey holes for short knockers, par 5s are tough to score on if they're long or demanding, where long hitters can take a breather on both and expect no worse than par if they play solidly.

That said, most holes don't require a 300 yard drive to score. I would rather have the ability to hit a 5 iron 200 yards and carry nothing above a 3 iron than hit a full set but only drive 220. That's around a 150 yard 6 iron, I reckon. Same driving distance, but even if you hit the driver as well as the long hitter's irons, he can hit a better approach every time. If he has no iron game, he's just a bad golfer in general. I reckon a golfer with the power to hit 220 with a 3 iron has a decent enough swing to hit a comparable number of fairways to the other person's driver.

You can drop your ball from the long hitter's landing spot, but if the longer hitter is hitting a 7 iron while you hit a hybrid, it's still a big advantage. The distance applies not only to drives, but to approach club selection as well. Driving is important, but overrated. Distance, on the other hand, can let you get away with murder sometimes. And chicks dig it. Hitting long with the driver isn't the best thing for scoring, but when it goes right it's pretty cool. The ladies don't understand that the pured soaring 3 iron from the deck is where it's at.

[Double Bogey]

After reading this thread all the way through I found this topic to be very informative... nice job gents.

My take as a average distance driver (240) being longer (270+) might help me, but it would need to be at least 30 yards longer.  Adding a 2 and 4 hybrid to my bag and learning how to hit them is what has made my scores drop.  I am still a high capper, but mainly due to the couple of chunks around the green or the dreaded topping a shot.  I can top it with a hybrid or a 9 iron, I am an equal opportunity topper

So being longer off the tee would not help me much (i dont think) but what has is having the ability to be longer on the second shot via a hybrid.  Being longer on that second shot allows me to reach shorter par 5s or at least be inside 100 to throw a wedge fairly close. You could argue that being longer off the tee would make my hybrid second shot a 7 iron, but if I am just as confident with my hybrid as a 7 iron it does not matter much.  So if you can hit the 5-7 irons well... the added distance would be great if not... I'll keep my distance and stay in the fairway please.

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by Double Bogey

After reading this thread all the way through I found this topic to be very informative... nice job gents.

My take as a average distance driver (240) being longer (270+) might help me, but it would need to be at least 30 yards longer.  Adding a 2 and 4 hybrid to my bag and learning how to hit them is what has made my scores drop.  I am still a high capper, but mainly due to the couple of chunks around the green or the dreaded topping a shot.  I can top it with a hybrid or a 9 iron, I am an equal opportunity topper

So being longer off the tee would not help me much (i dont think) but what has is having the ability to be longer on the second shot via a hybrid.  Being longer on that second shot allows me to reach shorter par 5s or at least be inside 100 to throw a wedge fairly close. You could argue that being longer off the tee would make my hybrid second shot a 7 iron, but if I am just as confident with my hybrid as a 7 iron it does not matter much.  So if you can hit the 5-7 irons well... the added distance would be great if not... I'll keep my distance and stay in the fairway please.

exactly - I feel the same way ... it's all about keeping the drive in the short grass & becomming proficient at our second shot with a mid iron or hybrid (or even an easy 3w if there's room).

[newtogolf]

If you're playing from whites (which I play from) we're creating a false sense of performance.  I play from whites all the time at a -22, but if I enter a club tournament it's played from the blue (longest) tees and my scores are expectedly higher than my -22 handicap.  I'd agree distance is less important from the whites, but I'm not sure we were all discussing golf from the white tees, at least I wasn't in my earlier posts.

Originally Posted by inthehole

I think it depends on what tee's you play from .... after all, most guys play whites, which are usually less than the 6700 yards you referenced.        If your choice is to play blues, sure you need distance.     Whites, not so much, which is where my arguement for accuracy over length holds water.

In reality, this whole discussion may ultimately come down to what tee's you chose to play, guys that play blues, need length ... those that play white's, don't need to bomb it, but still need average length.     I favor the short and controlled game to score well, but this only applies to the white tee's.     Maybe I should get the award for the most blindingly obvious, but there you have it ... better bring the long ball if you chose to play the blue tee's; white's - us average joe's need to hone up those mid irons & hybrids for a quality 2nd shot.

[Tuffy22]

If you're an elite golfer, then yes, distance is going to be a major factor.  Without it, eagles become pretty unrealistic.  However, for the average to good golfer, distance is overrated.  I'd argue that it's the least important factor of the golf game.  In the past, I hung my hat on being a big hitter.  It was an ego thing.  But all it took was two bad drives a round, and it ruined my round.  Today, I sacrifice distance for accuracy.  I tee off with my 3 iron on the majority of par 4s.  Unless the green is driveable, I typically tee it up with a 3-iron, and leave myself a short, manageable wedge to the green.  I spend quite a bit of time on the range working on my 50 to 130 yard game.  If you can place your approach shots well from that distance, it makes the distance lost on drives a moot point.  I enjoy not taking the OB penalty, or having to punch it out from the trees.  Sacrifice a bit of distance, play from the fairway, master your approach shots...and have fun.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Tuffy22

If you're an elite golfer, then yes, distance is going to be a major factor.  Without it, eagles become pretty unrealistic.  However, for the average to good golfer, distance is overrated.  I'd argue that it's the least important factor of the golf game.  In the past, I hung my hat on being a big hitter.  It was an ego thing.  But all it took was two bad drives a round, and it ruined my round.  Today, I sacrifice distance for accuracy.  I tee off with my 3 iron on the majority of par 4s.  Unless the green is driveable, I typically tee it up with a 3-iron, and leave myself a short, manageable wedge to the green.  I spend quite a bit of time on the range working on my 50 to 130 yard game.  If you can place your approach shots well from that distance, it makes the distance lost on drives a moot point.  I enjoy not taking the OB penalty, or having to punch it out from the trees.  Sacrifice a bit of distance, play from the fairway, master your approach shots...and have fun.

You're not sacrificing distance in the same way other people in this thread are. You're taking less club in order to keep the ball in play (strategic club selection) and it's distance off the tee that allows you to do that. After a mistake, you have enough power to hit a good recovery shot.

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

You're not sacrificing distance in the same way other people in this thread are.

I may be reading between the lines, but seems you don't like the idea of taking a controlled easy swing to keep it on the fairway.  Thats ok, I was just trying to get a feel for if what I was doing to improve my game was uncommon or fairly common - it's always good to get different viewpoints ...

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by inthehole

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

You're not sacrificing distance in the same way other people in this thread are.

I may be reading between the lines, but seems you don't like the idea of taking a controlled easy swing to keep it on the fairway.  Thats ok, I was just trying to get a feel for if what I was doing to improve my game was uncommon or fairly common - it's always good to get different viewpoints ...

Itos possible to take an easier controlled swing off the tee and also hit the ball hard. They're not mutually exclusive.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by Tuffy22

If you're an elite golfer, then yes, distance is going to be a major factor.  Without it, eagles become pretty unrealistic.  However, for the average to good golfer, distance is overrated.  I'd argue that it's the least important factor of the golf game.  In the past, I hung my hat on being a big hitter.  It was an ego thing.  But all it took was two bad drives a round, and it ruined my round.  Today, I sacrifice distance for accuracy.  I tee off with my 3 iron on the majority of par 4s.  Unless the green is driveable, I typically tee it up with a 3-iron, and leave myself a short, manageable wedge to the green.  I spend quite a bit of time on the range working on my 50 to 130 yard game.  If you can place your approach shots well from that distance, it makes the distance lost on drives a moot point.  I enjoy not taking the OB penalty, or having to punch it out from the trees.  Sacrifice a bit of distance, play from the fairway, master your approach shots...and have fun.

If you can hit 3i to 50-130 yards on the majority of par 4s either you're the next Bubba, you're playing the wrong tees, or the courses you play are too short for you.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Itos possible to take an easier controlled swing off the tee and also hit the ball hard. They're not mutually exclusive.

Ha.  Indeed.  In a lot of cases I'd say they're not just not mutually exclusive, in fact for most players, most of the time, the first is a necessary (though not sufficient, of course) condition for the second.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Tuffy22

I tee off with my 3 iron on the majority of par 4s.  Unless the green is driveable, I typically tee it up with a 3-iron, and leave myself a short, manageable wedge to the green.

This approach is fine on super short courses. Why wouldn't you hit a three iron if you've only got a wedge to the green?

It's a smart approach, but if you are playing courses like this, there is no need for distance. And you're talking about regulation pars.

Get onto a proper course and you'll not reach a single par 4 in two with any club, let alone a wedge.

Noone is sacrificing distance of the tee on a course like you play, because they lose nothing.

You may as well say that you hit 6 iron off the tee to leave yourself a 7 or 8 iron to the green.

[glock35ipsc]

I average around 260-265 (@ 5000' elevation) from the whites, in the short grass most of the time, and I'm OK with that.  My strength use to be my short game, and everything else stunk.  But my short game got little to no practice over the winter, and boy oh boy does it show!  My driving and iron play did get a lot of practice thought, and has most definitely improved, especially my driving accuracy .  My biggest problem holding me back from better scores right now is (1st) putting and (2nd) chipping.  I'm fine from around 100 yards an in.  I'm also fine with a lob wedge in hand at 10-20 yards out too.  But closer to the green and I start getting goofy, hitting lasers across the green or some other stupid result.  Putting has been atrocious too.  I switched putters a while back and was not only putting bad, but getting worse.  Distance was always the problem, and 3 putts was the norm.  Switched back to my old putter and it is slowly getting better.  I have putting lessons lined up, and will probably get an in depth putter fitting sometime this summer as well.

For me, I keep my ego in check, play from the tee's that give me the best chance to score, and have fun doing it.  My goal is to play good enough to have fun.  Hitting shots that end up in the general area that I was trying to land them is fun for me.  Hitting shots into the water or trees is not fun for me.  Not that I don't like a challenge, but hitting all my 2nd shots from behind a tree or in knee deep grass isn't fun!  I still have those times that I need to "channel my inner Bubba".  But as long as I'm not doing that on practically ever shot, I'm good to go!

[x129]

If you can hit your 3 iron 200+ (what you would need for a 100-150 yard approach shot on 90% of par 4s), you are a big hitter. The guy that drivers it 220 is going to be stuck trying to hit a 5 wood/3 iron as hit approach shot versus the 6 or 7 iron he would have with a driver.  It will depend on your game which is better.

Originally Posted by Tuffy22

If you're an elite golfer, then yes, distance is going to be a major factor.  Without it, eagles become pretty unrealistic.  However, for the average to good golfer, distance is overrated.  I'd argue that it's the least important factor of the golf game.  In the past, I hung my hat on being a big hitter.  It was an ego thing.  But all it took was two bad drives a round, and it ruined my round.  Today, I sacrifice distance for accuracy.  I tee off with my 3 iron on the majority of par 4s.  Unless the green is driveable, I typically tee it up with a 3-iron, and leave myself a short, manageable wedge to the green.  I spend quite a bit of time on the range working on my 50 to 130 yard game.  If you can place your approach shots well from that distance, it makes the distance lost on drives a moot point.  I enjoy not taking the OB penalty, or having to punch it out from the trees.  Sacrifice a bit of distance, play from the fairway, master your approach shots...and have fun.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by inthehole

I may be reading between the lines, but seems you don't like the idea of taking a controlled easy swing to keep it on the fairway.  Thats ok, I was just trying to get a feel for if what I was doing to improve my game was uncommon or fairly common - it's always good to get different viewpoints ...

You should continue to use your controlled easy swing to get it in the fairway and stop over thinking it.  Why?  Because you said that with this swing you were hitting the ball better- namely staighter and solider WITH VERY LITTLE LOSS OF DISTANCE.  If you lost a lot of distance with your easy swing, then you might have something to think about.  Based on what you have said, just go with it and have fun!.

To answer your question, there are quite a few players who swing too hard at the wrong time in their golf swings- swinging easier during the back swing and transition can help a lot of these players out.

Originally Posted by inthehole

From all we read about longest clubs, longest balls, most efficient swing to get 99.9% of potential swing speed to give maximum distance ... I may be the only golfer left who isn't concerned with distance.     My game has improved DRAMATICALLY when I changed the whole way I approached it - I have a bad back, so I have recently worked on a swing that suits me & I can actually play rounds in consecutive days - never could do that before without practically overdosing on Advil.    I'm all about a slow backswing, controlled downswing and solid ball contact.     Never hit better & my distance hasn't dropped off much at all.    It's amazing what happens when you make clean ball first contact & don't try to overpower it.      Yesterday, I hit 14 out of 15 fairways with my ho-hum 220-240 yard drive.  Game is monumentally more enjoyable playing from the fairways.    Hit a 3w on a 220 yd par 3 to 15 ft.     Granted, I don't have the body left to give me the distance required to ever be a scratch player, but this new approach is paying huge dividends for me on the scorecard.

Curious if anybody else has given up their quest for the long ball & went for more of a controlled game ?

[Ben]

I'll speak from a point of view most here won't get to, professional golf.

No, its not all about the long ball. Golf is about getting the ball in the hole, not necessarily how you get it there. I've played with all types of players, long and a little wild, long and accurate, short and wild, short and accurate. There is an aspect that no one has even mentioned yet, Putting. We can all get the ball to green, but the guys that are winning these tournaments are the guys who's putter is on fire. Scoring comes from having enough control of your ball, and making putts.

Two examples. Jeff Hart, and Eric Meichtry. Both play and have great records on the Golden State Tour, Jeff has had some success on the PGA Tour and is now a member of the Champions Tour. Eric is on the verge of breaking through. I've played with both. Jeff is the short and accurate. I've played at least six rounds with him, and have seen him miss two shots. TWO! The guy is short, I'm sure he'll admit it, but the guy is so consistent, so great at getting the ball in the hole. Eric is Jeff but with distance. I remember I played a round with him where he shot -5. It was bogey-free, and he honestly missed four great looks at birdie. Both guys blow my mind when I get the chance to play with them.

Bomber, Short-Knocker, doesn't matter. Its really all about rolling the rock.

[Deryck Griffith]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

WHY?

average par 5 - 510yards

Drive 200 yards

3 wood 170-180 yards

thats 130 yards left to go, with 3 shots in hand its like playing a par 4?

9i/8i to green and hopefully leave a birdie chance if not a good par opportunity

and if you happen to have a really good short game then birdie is quite realistic

EAGLES - on the other hand will be left down to fluke/lap of the gods if a short hitter is never on the green in two

If only it was that easy....