Best Sandbagger Story!

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by xmanhockey7

Assuming they really didn't shoot that score, and from the sound of it they did not, this is what happens when you make such high stakes for a tournament.

Yes, I agree.  This kind of prize belongs in the silent auction or raffle after the tournament.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by crusher

The other twosome were members as well, so they did attest the score...highly suspicious! Same twosome won last years event and won a trip to Whistling Straits. First place prize this year...all expenses paid to Pebble Beach for 2 days/3nights. There is a PGA tour event called the Franklin Templeton Shootout, which plays the same format. No Pro twosome recored a double digit under par score. They bogied 18, had they pared the 18th hole they would have shot 60! One away from the magical 59! Does this change anyone's opinion?

I wouldn`t expect two scratch players to shoot that score, let alone a 6 and a 14.  Even if it was best ball and not modified alternate shot, a good score for two scratches would probably be mid 60s or a tad lower if they were really hot and the course played easy.  What was the second lowest gross and net?  Was the winner of the Pebble prize gross or net?  Were they paired with the same twosome last year?

[xmanhockey7]

Yeah like what has been said 60 is just way low. I'm a student at Ferris State for our PGM program. Two students and the head pro at the school course and the director of our program played a four ball match play. Now to give you some background this was a four ball tournament and this was the finals. So the two PGM students are pretty good players, as they typically shoot low 70s and high 60s consistently in our PGM tournaments. The director of our program I have not seen play but I hear he's a good player. The head pro has qualified for the Buick Open four times and made the cut twice. In the match the director had 7 birdies, the head pro made 1, one of the PGM students made 6, and the other 5. That's 19 birdies in 18 holes. If they were playing four man best ball they'd have shot 60 on a course that typically has 15-25 MPH winds and is a 6,900 yard par 71. I don't know how hard that course those people shot 60 at is but it must be incredibly easy if they shot the 60.

Just saying.

[CraiginKSA]

Was the tournament winner determined by low gross or low net?  If it was low gross, then there would be no reason for that group to put in false handicaps.  The only reason would be if the tournament was flighted and they were trying to move into a B or C flight to claim that prize.  But if the overall winner was low gross, then they could have just put in their correct HC's.

If it was low net, then thier score borders on video game stupid.  When there is a team event at our club, we usually use 80% of total handicaps.  So for these crooks, 80% of a 14 and a 6 is 16.  Then you take half of that since they only turned in one score and you end up with a 61 - 8 = 53!!

Jack, Tiger, Rory and Sam Snead in a four man scramble would have a hard time shooting that score.

[Putridgasbag]

Originally Posted by CraiginKSA

Jack, Tiger, Rory and Sam Snead in a four man scramble would have a hard time shooting that score.

Then they wouldn't win much at the year end Scramble event at my club.

While that score is quite remarkable I have seen similar things happen where I am fairly certain no cheating occurred though none were for more than a couple of bucks, picture in the local rag and a trophy.

[eich41]

It looks a little fishy but I would make these points:

1. As others have said, if it was low gross then the handicap is a moot point, especially with another twosome attesting.

2.  If their game was complimentary, a 6 and a 14 could certainly get pretty low.  For example if one guy is a master on and around the greens, but really short while the other guy is a bomber with no short game, they could put  up some pretty low numbers, even though independently they don't have a complete game to be a low handicapper.

3.  Depending  on where they typically play (course and tees) and where the tournament was set up, could make a difference.  I know that the course rating comes into play in the calculation of the handicap, but if they  were playing more difficult courses and from the tips on the calculation of their handicap, then moved up a box or two for the tournament, they could be long enough to be chipping and pitching into every green.

That being said, if they won it last year with a similar score, they're definitely sandbaggers.  The prize being so good certainly doesn't help, unless of course it was low gross.

EDIT: Didnt' see it was Modified Alt Shot.  Nevermind #2

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by CraiginKSA

Jack, Tiger, Rory and Sam Snead in a four man scramble would have a hard time shooting that score.

Particularly if they had to count a min number of shots from each player.  Snead might be playing golf somewhere, but hasn`t done it on this planet in 10 years or so.

4 Pros in their prime could easily shoot 61 or better in a four man scramble.  On a 6500 yard course, I`d expect them to be in the mid 50s as long as the greens were somewhat reasonable and there were no mini-golf type features.

[eich41]

Originally Posted by Putridgasbag

Then they wouldn't win much at the year end Scramble event at my club.

While that score is quite remarkable I have seen similar things happen where I am fairly certain no cheating occurred though none were for more than a couple of bucks, picture in the local rag and a trophy.

Agreed,

Some guys are so skeptical of low scramble scores.  I've personally put up some numbers that some here would claim are crazy and it was a foursome made up of  6, 5, 10, and 9 handicappers.

[CraiginKSA]

Particularly if they had to count a min number of shots from each player.  Snead might be playing golf somewhere, but hasn`t done it on this planet in 10 years or so. 4 Pros in their prime could easily shoot 61 or better in a four man scramble.  On a 6500 yard course, I`d expect them to be in the mid 50s as long as the greens were somewhat reasonable and there were no mini-golf type features.

Yes, one pro playing his own ball could shoot 61. It's the 53 that would be the hard part since all the pros are playing to + handicaps. And that 6 and 14 were net around 53. That's a really good score.

[Putridgasbag]

Originally Posted by eich41

It looks a little fishy but I would make these points:

1. As others have said, if it was low gross then the handicap is a moot point, especially with another twosome attesting.

2.  If their game was complimentary, a 6 and a 14 could certainly get pretty low.  For example if one guy is a master on and around the greens, but really short while the other guy is a bomber with no short game, they could put  up some pretty low numbers, even though independently they don't have a complete game to be a low handicapper.

3.  Depending  on where they typically play (course and tees) and where the tournament was set up, could make a difference.  I know that the course rating comes into play in the calculation of the handicap, but if they  were playing more difficult courses and from the tips on the calculation of their handicap, then moved up a box or two for the tournament, they could be long enough to be chipping and pitching into every green.

That being said, if they won it last year with a similar score, they're definitely sandbaggers.  The prize being so good certainly doesn't help, unless of course it was low gross.

EDIT: Didnt' see it was Modified Alt Shot.  Nevermind #2

#2 still works even in that format. Getting to play your second from the middle of the fairway and I am guessing here, the closest to the pin on par 3s, makes a huge difference. I also agree with your 3rd point, horses for courses.

Sandbagging does happen but not every good score is sandbagging. The lesson learned is don't enter tournaments based on prizes, specially ones that use modified rules, unless you consider your entry fee a donation to a good cause.

[Putridgasbag]

Originally Posted by eich41

Agreed,

Some guys are so skeptical of low scramble scores.  I've personally put up some numbers that some here would claim are crazy and it was a foursome made up of  6, 5, 10, and 9 handicappers.

Any scramble that I have played in it is birdie or bust. par is bogey and bogey equals done like diner.

[evilgolfboy]

One question:  Those all expense paid golf trips are usually for four people.  Did the winning team bring along the team that attested on their card?

[Mr3Wiggle]

Played a 2 man member guest one time.  A guy brought in an out of town friend with an 18 handicap.  The format was 9 hole matches.  His guest never shot over 39 in any of his 6 matches.  When we played him he shot 36 and had a hole in one on #8.  The member was a 2 or 3 handicap, his 18 handicap guest was the highest he could be and still have them fit into the A flight.

[turtleback]

Let's call a spade a spade.  They aren't sand baggers, they are cheaters.  Why anyone would play with cheaters or in an event that tolerates cheaters is beyond me.

[JerseyThursday]

Originally Posted by caniac6

I played in a tourney with a guy that was an officer in the club. He shot a 78 with a 19 handicap. After the round, he proudly announce" I'm turning that one in". I am not a member at that club anymore.

I’m not sure what your beef with the guy is. If he had said he wasn’t turning in the score then it probably raises sandbagger issues.
But if he is an a 19 handicap and turns in a 78 he might be someone who is improving and his handicap is going to go down accordingly.

[caniac6]

By not turning in good scores, especially tournament scores, he is able to keep his handicap high. This really helps him when he has the low round, and can apply his strokes to make it even lower. By doing this, he was cheating the entire field. You need to turn in ALL scores. I you only turn in your high scores, you cheat the field. If you have a vanity handicap by only turning in your low scores, you cheat yourself. Honesty and integrity are essential parts of golf. Not reporting scores are no different than moving balls on the course. Cheating is cheating, and shouldn't be tolerated in any form.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by caniac6

By not turning in good scores, especially tournament scores, he is able to keep his handicap high. This really helps him when he has the low round, and can apply his strokes to make it even lower. By doing this, he was cheating the entire field. You need to turn in ALL scores. I you only turn in your high scores, you cheat the field. If you have a vanity handicap by only turning in your low scores, you cheat yourself. Honesty and integrity are essential parts of golf. Not reporting scores are no different than moving balls on the course. Cheating is cheating, and shouldn't be tolerated in any form.

How is he cheating by turning in that score?  Or did you mean to say that he said he WASN'T turning in that score.  If that is the case you made a very unfortunate and misleading typo.

[ghalfaire]

It just isn't believable that two player of those handicaps scored a 61 gross in Alternate shot.  You really can't hide any weakness in players games in this format.  These guys would have to near scratch golfers to do this and even then it would be an unlikely score.  So either all four were complicit  in a false score card or this was a net score. or this club doesn't properly "oversee" the handicaps and they are supposed to.  Any club I have ever been associated with has handicap committees and pros that make sure all your rounds at the club are recorded.  I just don't see how anyone could "hide" 6-8 strokes of ability for any amount of time at a golf club.  But if this story is true I certainly would not play in this tournament ever again.