Use of the right arm

[tshapiro]

I am a firm believer that the average golfer with average flexibility will do best by concentrating solely on the left arm and right hip action (in addition to proper head alignment). Over the years I have been able to utilize a relaxed left arm swing lead by my right hip (core). My right arm is totally relaxed throughout the entire golf swing. I have been doing this so long and for so many repetitions that I have complete awareness of my body parts during the swing - or so I thought... In a non-golf activity I injured the inside portion of my right forearm muscle near the inner elbow. It is very painful during impact and this is telling me that despite the fact that I use only my core and left arm to swing that my right arm is still playing a role. If I attempt to actively engaged my right arm at all I experience a drain of power where my core-left arm machinery is short circuited by the small lever of my right arm. For me, this proves that your intentions and deliberate actions are supplemented by your unconsciousness and one must master the inputs to a good swing. Arguments as to what actually happens have less significance. So, by saying to base your dynamic motion on the left arm and right hip - you end up with a perfect balance of your full body - including your right arm.

[iacas]

And Hogan said he wishes he had three right hands/arms.

Feels vary from player to player. Your left arm is not "relaxed" like you believe it to be.

[carpediem4300]

why do all your posts read like patrick's?

like everything you feel is FACT and therefore EVERYONE should follow

[poser]

My feel is for sure more in my right arm.  When I'm hitting it good I feel my right forearm paddle wheel through the ball and it's a feel that I love to have and usually means I'm playing solid.

[inthecup]

I attended a PGA school and they teach that the right arm (for a righty) should be pushed out and down.  I currently do not do that.  My release (I hate that term) is passive caused by the rotation of my body.  If I were able to engage my right arm as they suggest I believe it would add significant power but the timing of it has eluded me.

I am not long so I would like to add some distance.  I hit Driver 230-240 and 8 iron 140-145, measured with GPS.

[inthecup]

Originally Posted by poser

My feel is for sure more in my right arm.  When I'm hitting it good I feel my right forearm paddle wheel through the ball and it's a feel that I love to have and usually means I'm playing solid.

Can you explain paddle wheel through?  Does that equate to the down and out move I describe above?

[poser]

For me the closest thing I can say it feels like is skipping a stone and zero crossover or roll and in the finish the arm feels more across my chest.  Thats for me though might not be what everyone else is striving for.

[Th3R00st3r]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

why do all your posts read like patrick's?

like everything you feel is FACT and therefore EVERYONE should follow

I had this same notion from another thread. Pop in-- leave 2 sentence comment without anything to back it up -- then no more posts. I know you're a busy guy, but you used to tell others to no do that and to provide substance/evidence of the post. No offense, but I get more out of your posts than most others here, so step it up Erik!

Having said that.. on to the OP. I recently began feeling, at the takaway, like my arms were not even there using the shoulders and hips to start the turn. About 9 oclock, I am making sure my left arm is straight and the feeling that my right arm is straight (even though it's not) and keeping it close the the shirt seam.. This has been producing a natural wrist cock. I have been striking the ball a lot better due to the fact that I keep my left arm straighter than I have before.

I guess you would call it a conscious effort to feel like the right arm is straight (even though it's bending anywhere from 80-90°) and close to the body..

I am a higher handicapper, so my thoughts on this may be a bit premature.

[zanemulraney]

Feel Verses Reel is always difficult to assertain especially on your own.

The right arm has two main roles within a golf swing,

1) it maintains and supports the golf club and left arm structure throughout the golf swing. (Maintaining The Radius Of The Swing i.e left arm stretched)

2) it also traces the base line of the swing. (Maintaining the clubshaft on plane)

Golfers who work on staying on plane and maintaining structure will undoubtedly be more consistent players.

[tshapiro]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

why do all your posts read like patrick's?

like everything you feel is FACT and therefore EVERYONE should follow

To antagonize people like you.

[tshapiro]

Originally Posted by Th3R00st3r

I had this same notion from another thread. Pop in-- leave 2 sentence comment without anything to back it up -- then no more posts. I know you're a busy guy, but you used to tell others to no do that and to provide substance/evidence of the post. No offense, but I get more out of your posts than most others here, so step it up Erik!

Having said that.. on to the OP. I recently began feeling, at the takaway, like my arms were not even there using the shoulders and hips to start the turn. About 9 oclock, I am making sure my left arm is straight and the feeling that my right arm is straight (even though it's not) and keeping it close the the shirt seam.. This has been producing a natural wrist cock. I have been striking the ball a lot better due to the fact that I keep my left arm straighter than I have before.

I guess you would call it a conscious effort to feel like the right arm is straight (even though it's bending anywhere from 80-90°) and close to the body..

I am a higher handicapper, so my thoughts on this may be a bit premature.

I don't have a lot of facts to spill.  I just know that I:

- Consistantly drive 250-270

- Can comfortably draw or fade my shots

- Usually shoot in the low 80's as a weekend worrior

- Am considered to be a very consistant player

- Can setup to my shots quickly

- And have my swing boiled down to 3 basic components which means I am not on and endless struggle to figure out my swing like most of the golf world

I'm justing putting out there the golf swing as it works for me.  I purposely don't follow up my posts because I already know what I think.  I like to see what other people think about what I write and let their ideas evolve in the thread.  I could less if anyone agrees with me.

Couple of facts/observations- The average golfer slices, cannot use there body, uses their arms for a desparation attempt at power, is out of balance, hit's behind the ball, and duff's it when faced with water, Like Hogan said, it all boils down to our natural instincts being the direct oppositie of what is needed for the golf swing.  Unfortunately, Hogan, describes his beautiful swing from the perspective of someone who has the direct opposite body type that most golfers - he could coil like a cork screw and most golfers struggle to coil.  So, there in lies the fun... all the great swingers describe the swing from their perspective and seldom is it the exact recipe for another player.  Based on my swing and the success that I have teaching others to swing consistantly, I think I do a pretty good job of boiling down some of the basic aspects that help the average player.

Hope this helps.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

why do all your posts read like patrick's?

like everything you feel is FACT and therefore EVERYONE should follow

lol.

Resemblance is uncanny. But the post is not long enough, or someone has assimilated.

[carpediem4300]

Originally Posted by tshapiro

To antagonize people like you.

Originally Posted by tshapiro

I don't have a lot of facts to spill.  I just know that I:

- Consistantly drive 250-270

- Can comfortably draw or fade my shots

- Usually shoot in the low 80's as a weekend worrior

- Am considered to be a very consistant player

- Can setup to my shots quickly

- And have my swing boiled down to 3 basic components which means I am not on and endless struggle to figure out my swing like most of the golf world

I'm justing putting out there the golf swing as it works for me.  I purposely don't follow up my posts because I already know what I think.  I like to see what other people think about what I write and let their ideas evolve in the thread.  I could less if anyone agrees with me.

Couple of facts/observations- The average golfer slices, cannot use there body, uses their arms for a desparation attempt at power, is out of balance, hit's behind the ball, and duff's it when faced with water, Like Hogan said, it all boils down to our natural instincts being the direct oppositie of what is needed for the golf swing.  Unfortunately, Hogan, describes his beautiful swing from the perspective of someone who has the direct opposite body type that most golfers - he could coil like a cork screw and most golfers struggle to coil.  So, there in lies the fun... all the great swingers describe the swing from their perspective and seldom is it the exact recipe for another player.  Based on my swing and the success that I have teaching others to swing consistantly, I think I do a pretty good job of boiling down some of the basic aspects that help the average player.

Hope this helps.

me? antogonized? naahh,, dumbfounded yes

your original post states how you feel your golf swing,....thats great,....but you dont tell us why you need to feel it like that,...are you combating a hook, a slice, tops, fats?,....it all becomes irrelevant when you start stating things as "fact" and "firm beleiver" when you dont actually bother to state the reasons why, it was a nothing post from which few people would of taken anything

and your above post is nither her nor there also,....you state facts about average golfers that slice the ball and do this that or the other,....but dont offer any reason other than the lack of flexibility, completely negating the fact you dont need to be flexible to play golf and deliver a square clubhead on a good swing path,....you need a little of everything, its not like i train ahrd to be flexible and bam my slice is gone,...

I just lack the idea of your thread in its entirety, you havent actually offered any advice, and all your facts/observations are what we know already

[Limpinswinger]

Originally Posted by tshapiro

I am a firm believer that the average golfer with average flexibility will do best by concentrating solely on the left arm and right hip action (in addition to proper head alignment).

Over the years I have been able to utilize a relaxed left arm swing lead by my right hip (core). My right arm is totally relaxed throughout the entire golf swing. I have been doing this so long and for so many repetitions that I have complete awareness of my body parts during the swing - or so I thought...

In a non-golf activity I injured the inside portion of my right forearm muscle near the inner elbow. It is very painful during impact and this is telling me that despite the fact that I use only my core and left arm to swing that my right arm is still playing a role. If I attempt to actively engaged my right arm at all I experience a drain of power where my core-left arm machinery is short circuited by the small lever of my right arm.

For me, this proves that your intentions and deliberate actions are supplemented by your unconsciousness and one must master the inputs to a good swing. Arguments as to what actually happens have less significance.

So, by saying to base your dynamic motion on the left arm and right hip - you end up with a perfect balance of your full body - including your right arm.

Hmmm!  IMO, if you're a righty, it seems to me that the right arm should be more dominant and the left arm more passive.  Your eye hand coordination and your proprioceptive awarness of the position of the club head is most acute in your right hand.  I would also suspect that iacas disagrees about your focus on the right hip.  He seems to advocate sliding the left hip forward moreso than "rotating your core."

[tshapiro]

Hmmm!  IMO, if you're a righty, it seems to me that the right arm should be more dominant and the left arm more passive.  Your eye hand coordination and your proprioceptive awarness of the position of the club head is most acute in your right hand.  I would also suspect that iacas disagrees about your focus on the right hip.  He seems to advocate sliding the left hip forward moreso than "rotating your core."

Plenty of right handed players swingwith the dominant hand being the left. It is a fact that you can squeeze out more flexibility if you use points that are further away from each other which is why I choose to focus on the right hip since I swing left arm dominant. However, my favorite golfer of all time, Bobby Jones a righty who swings left arm dominant, initiated the downswing with his left hip and he fought a hook. Hookers think left hip, slicers think right hip - its a fact.

[Limpinswinger]

Originally Posted by tshapiro

Plenty of right handed players swingwith the dominant hand being the left.

It is a fact that you can squeeze out more flexibility if you use points that are further away from each other which is why I choose to focus on the right hip since I swing left arm dominant. However, my favorite golfer of all time, Bobby Jones a righty who swings left arm dominant, initiated the downswing with his left hip and he fought a hook. Hookers think left hip, slicers think right hip - its a fact.

I'm not sure I understand your point about left hand dominance, right hip focus and flexibility.  In any event, it seems to me that if your focus is on your right hip, and you clear your right hip during the downswing, it could cause an outside-in swing path.  Perhaps that's why iacas advocates sliding the left hip to the target.  The right hip will clear during the finish of the swing anyway.  You just want to delay that until after ball contact.  I have heard over the years that a righty should swing with a dominant left hand.  But, like much "prevailing wisdom" I don't know how effective that is for most people who are naturally right hand dominant.  It seems to me that, unless you are ambidextrous, a player should use his dominant hand to dominate his swing.  It also seems to me that a righty with a right hand dominant swing will create more club head speed, have a more predictable, repeatable, inside-out swing path, and will be less likely to have an open clubface at contact.

BTW, how do you know that Bobby Jones had a left hand dominant swing?  What about Snead, Hogan, Nicklaus, Woods?

[saevel25]

I am totally right sided, in my golf game, i can not feel my left arm period. the pro i went to tried to get me to concentrate on my left shoulder, he said to flex a certain muscle, i can't get that muscle to flex. I just don't have the neurological pathways built up to do it. So in my swing i try not to focus on my hands. I use a slightly stronger grip, this gets me away from thinking of turning my left wrist over or flattening it up. I just work on tempo, getting my hands infront of my body. When i do that, i strike the ball good. For me my best tempo is "one two". Really from there i don't think much of anything or try to feel much of anything. The swing just happens for me.

[Limpinswinger]

Originally Posted by saevel25

I am totally right sided, in my golf game, i can not feel my left arm period. the pro i went to tried to get me to concentrate on my left shoulder, he said to flex a certain muscle, i can't get that muscle to flex. I just don't have the neurological pathways built up to do it. So in my swing i try not to focus on my hands. I use a slightly stronger grip, this gets me away from thinking of turning my left wrist over or flattening it up. I just work on tempo, getting my hands infront of my body. When i do that, i strike the ball good. For me my best tempo is "one two". Really from there i don't think much of anything or try to feel much of anything. The swing just happens for me.

I haven't had a chance to try out my new "iacas" hip slide yet.  When I do, I think my rhythm will be "1" (takeback), "&" (hipslide), "2" (downswing).  Musicians will know where this comes from.