Slow Play on the PGA Tour, Tiger Shares His Opinion

[Mr3Wiggle]

Seems like the rule of thumb on the tour regarding slow play is, if it involves compelling play (meaning Tiger is involved) it's okay.  Otherwise it's a huge issue.

[Chas]

hmmm, you mean it's similar to the situation regarding balls supposedly snatched by spectators .....? :-)

[x129]

I don't know Tigers complete  slow play history but you can complain about being on the clock and  complain about slow play without being a hypocrite.  If your on the 16th hole and your the last group, being told to speed up might be a time where the rules guy should lay off.   Maybe it isn't worth messing up the competition in order to get done by the end of the TV show. Maybe they were on pace for a 4:15 round instead of the desired 4:00 (made up numbers) and Tiger thinks 4:15 is reasonable but 4:50 is not. Maybe he felt they were playing at a decent pace (i.e. waiting a bit on each hole) up until recently when they had a long hole (couple tricky shots, needed a ruling before taking relief,....). Read the slow play discussions on this board. They can be summed up as "The pace I play is OK (doesn't matter if it is 2:30 or 5hours). The guys that play slower are snails and the ones that play faster are rushing and not enjoying their round". I am sure most pros feel the same way.

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

Don't think anyone is saying the slow play isn't the problem.  Just seems hypocritical that someone (Tiger) who is part of the problem is complaining about the problem.  Get it?

[brocks]

Don't think anyone is saying the slow play isn't the problem.  Just seems hypocritical that someone (Tiger) who is part of the problem is complaining about the problem.  Get it?

You asked if Tiger is a slow player, somebody with seven posts here said yes, and that's all the evidence you need? In case anybody ragging on Tiger about the Bridgestone missed it, Tiger won that event. He wasn't saying being put on the clock hurt him, he was saying it hurt Harrington, and since Harrington really is one of the slower players, he was right. Harrington had to rush his shots, and that may have affected his results. Tiger was sticking up for his opponent, which IMO was a classy thing to do, because it needed to be said, and it would have sounded a lot worse (to normal people) coming from the loser, rather than the winner. He wasn't saying there shouldn't be rules, he was saying that they should be applied with some intelligence. It was the final group, on the final day, and they were the only two players with a chance to win. They had a huge, huge, gallery, and they often had to wait for people to stop moving, or even to get across the fairway, before they could hit their shots. Demanding that they take no more than 40-60 seconds under those circumstances is dumb, especially when there is nobody behind them, and the shots they are hitting will determine the winner.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

Didn't Tiger used to be one of the slowest players on tour?

No. He'd play a little bit and "slow play" his partners but he wasn't widely known for being out of position frequently, nor did fellow players mutter things (on the record or off) about Tiger being slow.

Originally Posted by Chas

Obviously TW is contradicting himself when suggests, "if you get a warning you get a penalty". In that case it wouldn't be a warning, it would be a penalty. The two are mutually exclusive concepts. It seems that Tiger needs a lesson in the language ....

I share the sentiment tho'. A warning should be give first but the penalty on subsequent violation could be increased - to +1 stroke? That might have the desired effect.

So: you feel the need to pick at Tiger for his "language," then you admit you understand exactly what he's saying because you "share the sentiment." Cripes.

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339

It's hypocritical because he was on national TV 2 years ago complaining about being put on the clock and how badly it affected the outcome of the tournament because him and his playing partner were rushed.

You can't have it both ways.

His group was put on the clock because of Padraig.

Originally Posted by brocks

You asked if Tiger is a slow player, somebody with seven posts here said yes, and that's all the evidence you need?

In case anybody ragging on Tiger about the Bridgestone missed it, Tiger won that event. He wasn't saying being put on the clock hurt him, he was saying it hurt Harrington, and since Harrington really is one of the slower players, he was right. Harrington had to rush his shots, and that may have affected his results. Tiger was sticking up for his opponent, which IMO was a classy thing to do, because it needed to be said, and it would have sounded a lot worse (to normal people) coming from the loser, rather than the winner.

He wasn't saying there shouldn't be rules, he was saying that they should be applied with some intelligence. It was the final group, on the final day, and they were the only two players with a chance to win. They had a huge, huge, gallery, and they often had to wait for people to stop moving, or even to get across the fairway, before they could hit their shots. Demanding that they take no more than 40-60 seconds under those circumstances is dumb, especially when there is nobody behind them, and the shots they are hitting will determine the winner.

Bingo. +1.

[brocks]

No. He'd play a little bit and "slow play" his partners but he wasn't widely known for being out of position frequently, nor did fellow players mutter things (on the record or off) about Tiger being slow.

It's actually kind of remarkable how seldom Tiger has been on the clock, because the "Tiger circus" almost always makes his group play slower than normal. Unless he's playing with someone like Mickelson or Fowler, almost the whole crowd on whatever hole he's playing is there to see him. And even against those guys, half the crowd is there to see him. So if Tiger hits a 2-iron stinger off the tee, he's hitting first into the green. The crowd watches Tiger hit his approach, and then starts hustling up to the green so they can watch him putt. The marshals try to stop it, but they're just a couple of volunteers, and they can only do so much. His poor opponent has to either wait a minute or two for the fans to stop moving, or try to ignore them while he's hitting his shot. I think the only thing that prevents him from being on the clock almost every week is that the group ahead of him is also slowed down by the clueless fans running up to get into position to watch Tiger's next shot.

[Chas]

Brock's: in #40, do you really mean "intelligence", or do you rather mean "discretion"? I consider the latter more appropriate here but I can't speak for you of course. I agree with those who consider this somewhat hypocritical of Tiger but nobody's perfect .....

[Mr3Wiggle]

http://topnews.ae/content/26120-tiger-woods-warned-slow-play

Just saying...

And I'm actually surprised there are articles from a couple years ago criticizing Tiger Woods in any way.  Until recently he it's been rare to see negative Tiger press.  Maybe I'm misremembering, but I can recall a number of ocassions when Tiger has been in the last pairing and there has been an entire hole open ahead of him.  The tour was obviously hesitant to say anything to him since he wasn't holding anything up and was probably winning.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

http://topnews.ae/content/26120-tiger-woods-warned-slow-play

Just saying...

And I'm actually surprised there are articles from a couple years ago criticizing Tiger Woods in any way.  Until recently he it's been rare to see negative Tiger press.  Maybe I'm misremembering, but I can recall a number of ocassions when Tiger has been in the last pairing and there has been an entire hole open ahead of him.  The tour was obviously hesitant to say anything to him since he wasn't holding anything up and was probably winning.

This is starting to look like a mission or something.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

http://topnews.ae/content/26120-tiger-woods-warned-slow-play

Just saying...

Did you read the rest of the article? The group was warned. But that wouldn't sell, so they sneak in that "Westwood and Kaymer were also warned" after they say the word "Tiger" enough to help them get traffic. :)

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by iacas

Did you read the rest of the article? The group was warned. But that wouldn't sell, so they sneak in that "Westwood and Kaymer were also warned" after they say the word "Tiger" enough to help them get traffic. :)

I know...I just like to argue.

[zipazoid]

Why do people get all sideways when it's Tiger opining on something? Pros have been complaining about slow play on tour for years...but as soon as Tiger says something about it, it becomes a freekin' feeding frenzy.

Slow play is a problem on the tour. There is nothing new about that. Therefore Tiger said nothing shocking or controversial...except that it was Tiger saying it.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Why do people get all sideways when it's Tiger opining on something? Pros have been complaining about slow play on tour for years...but as soon as Tiger says something about it, it becomes a freekin' feeding frenzy.

Slow play is a problem on the tour. There is nothing new about that. Therefore Tiger said nothing shocking or controversial...except that it was Tiger saying it.

Slow news day/week.  Kuchar not exactly the glamorous winner that the golf media wants to win big tournaments.

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Why do people get all sideways when it's Tiger opining on something? Pros have been complaining about slow play on tour for years...but as soon as Tiger says something about it, it becomes a freekin' feeding frenzy.

Slow play is a problem on the tour. There is nothing new about that. Therefore Tiger said nothing shocking or controversial...except that it was Tiger saying it.

This is so true

Originally Posted by brocks

You asked if Tiger is a slow player, somebody with seven posts here said yes, and that's all the evidence you need?

In case anybody ragging on Tiger about the Bridgestone missed it, Tiger won that event. He wasn't saying being put on the clock hurt him, he was saying it hurt Harrington, and since Harrington really is one of the slower players, he was right. Harrington had to rush his shots, and that may have affected his results. Tiger was sticking up for his opponent, which IMO was a classy thing to do, because it needed to be said, and it would have sounded a lot worse (to normal people) coming from the loser, rather than the winner.

He wasn't saying there shouldn't be rules, he was saying that they should be applied with some intelligence. It was the final group, on the final day, and they were the only two players with a chance to win. They had a huge, huge, gallery, and they often had to wait for people to stop moving, or even to get across the fairway, before they could hit their shots. Demanding that they take no more than 40-60 seconds under those circumstances is dumb, especially when there is nobody behind them, and the shots they are hitting will determine the winner.

But who will think of the networks????? They MUST have the round finished for their schedules, its sooooo unfair on them.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Why do people get all sideways when it's Tiger opining on something? Pros have been complaining about slow play on tour for years...but as soon as Tiger says something about it, it becomes a freekin' feeding frenzy.

Slow play is a problem on the tour. There is nothing new about that. Therefore Tiger said nothing shocking or controversial...except that it was Tiger saying it.

Well I'm agreeing with Tiger that there's an issue with slow play but I disagree with him on the solution (and I question his choice of words but enough about that ....).  I say the tour should keep the warning about slow play (as a true warning) and be more punitive than at present the second time it happens.

I also agree with Tiger about no point of body contact with the putter but that's for another thread and there are strong arguments for the other side imo.

The more pertinent issue is: why do some people on this forum jump down other people's throats when they disagree with something that Tiger says?  Well, I think we know the answer to that one ....

Erik: #46 .... nice.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by x129

If your on the 16th hole and your the last group, being told to speed up might be a time where the rules guy should lay off.   Maybe it isn't worth messing up the competition in order to get done by the end of the TV show.

The rules are the rules, and should be applied in the same manner to the first group off the tee who have no chance on Sunday as to the last pairing, even when they're both leading by a dozen strokes over 3rd place. Obviously application of the rules shouldn't depend on the television demands, nor should the rules themselves (I'm looking at YOU, NFL).

I agree with your overall point, though. You don't have to be the fastest golfer out there if you want to complain about extremely slow play.

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Why do people get all sideways when it's Tiger opining on something?

Seriously, but I really wonder what Tiger thinks of this phenomenon.

[Bullitt5339]

Originally Posted by zeg

The rules are the rules, and should be applied in the same manner to the first group off the tee who have no chance on Sunday as to the last pairing, even when they're both leading by a dozen strokes over 3rd place. Obviously application of the rules shouldn't depend on the television demands, nor should the rules themselves (I'm looking at YOU, NFL).

Bingo!!!!  I think this is the point that most people are missing.  You just can't decide when and where the rules should be applied, which is what happened in this case.  It doesn't matter who said it, it's the fact that apparently his view on the enforcement of the rules has changed dramatically in the last few years.

[BallStriker]

Slow play on the PGA Tour is not a problem for me......I watch on TV and it is usually DVRd....I don't care if it takes 4.5 hours or 6 hours for these guys to play a round,...there seems to be plenty of action all over the course at any given time, and the GC, CBS, NBC seem to do a nice job of jumping around to different players..... plus they can pretty much put every shot on a short time delay so they only show the guy over the ball when he is ready to pull the trigger.....and I'm not going to listen to any boo-hoo from guys who make boatloads of cash playing golf....I work a fukkin lot of 10 hour days....

My 2 cents.......