Do you try to hit it straight?

[Adam Young]

Originally Posted by blue72ss

His question was not "how do I learn about golf".

Even so, I dont see how listening to former major championship winners is "the worst way to learn about golf".

In my 2 week experience in the forum, listening to forum members may quite possible be "the worst way to learn about golf".  Suppossed pros advising a grip change to fix major swing flaws is significantly more "horrible" than anything Johnny Miller has EVER said on TV.

Whilst Millers advice is inaccurate in reality, we know that feel and real are not the same, so i would go with you on this one blue72ss. The feeling of opening up the face through impact can certainly produce fade, even if the reality is that the clubface is closing down but it hits the ball in a more open state. Whatever gets the ball to do what you want it to, I'd rather have a feeling that works than a full understanding but an inability to do it.

However, define a swing flaw for me.   Sure there are certain things that are not optimum in golf, but sometimes two wrongs CAN make a right if they compliment each other. every pro has compensations and things that are not textbook........but sometimes they are the things that actually make it work

[Lost-Ball]

when im fresh out the gate i hit a baby draw with most my clubs but as i get tired or lazy it straightens out or i start pushing right. only time ill see a fade is off the tee when im really tired. i can hit fades on command but after two years of playing a fade i like seeing draws much better.

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by blue72ss

His question was not "how do I learn about golf".

Even so, I dont see how listening to former major championship winners is "the worst way to learn about golf".

In my 2 week experience in the forum, listening to forum members may quite possible be "the worst way to learn about golf".  Suppossed pros advising a grip change to fix major swing flaws is significantly more "horrible" than anything Johnny Miller has EVER said on TV.

It's one of the worst ways because they often (I'd say the majority of the time) don't give good advice. At best, what they say is inconsistent and unclear and usually they are just flat out wrong. The fact that they are major champions really has nothing to do with it. The fact is that these guys tell you to do what they feel like they were doing and the thing is, FEEL ISN'T REAL. Look at the advice that Nick Faldo gave on how to hit a draw when you are stuck behind a tree, it's wrong. Period. The best thing somebody can do if they want to learn to swing consistently and learn to shape the ball is (1) find a good instructor who understands the ball flight laws (the actual ones, not the "old" ones that some people still go by) and (2) Learn said ball flight laws for themselves.

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws - Link to the ball flight laws

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/the_instructor_quiz_nine_questions_youve_gotta_ask - Link to the Instructor Quiz (you should probably ask these questions before you sign up)

[vo-man]

I have played a graceful fade for many years and usually calculate my shots on that happening.  It's when I do something right and hit it straight that I usually

get into trouble on a hole.

[Jimdangles]

I have been working on learning how to shape shots and I have gotten pretty decent at it but the other day I was just laying up with a 5 iron to a wide open fairway. No need to shape just make solid contact and get it only to the 190 ish range. Somehow my ball went OB. Because I wasnt concentrating on what exactly I wanted to do I messed up. Concentrating on what I want to do helps keep me focused instead of just putting the ball out there.

[Precis1on]

In lieu of what Adam said, 2 wrongs certainly can make a right (if they complement), and this reminded of Jim Hardy's book: http://www.amazon.com/Solid-Contact-Instructors-Learning-Instantly/dp/1592406580

Hardy talks about swings in pluses (steep, fade) and minuses (shallow, draw). If you are slicing and have many aspects of your swing that are pluses, then you need to add some minuses to straighten out your ball flight. It's an interesting read, but you need a good understand of what exactly your swing is doing (VIDEO TIME!) in order to get the most out of that book.

[poser]

I hit a push draw with all my irons and usually hit a pretty straight to slight fade with the driver.  I don't like to see the driver draw.

[Mikeod5785]

Rubbish....if you have a tendency to hit a slight fade or draw, you do not know how to consistently square the clubface correctly, simple as that, the easiest way to get from point A to point B is a straight line

[Adam Young]

Originally Posted by Mikeod5785

Rubbish....if you have a tendency to hit a slight fade or draw, you do not know how to consistently square the clubface correctly, simple as that, the easiest way to get from point A to point B is a straight line

you are looking at it too one dimensionally. A player can build a whole game and strategy based on a draw shot. Their entire subconscious mind can find it easier to visualise and hence access this neural circuit in the brain. Also, it can give the player more confidence to know that their ball is curving back towards something, rather than not knowing which way it is going to go.

Physcially, yes a straight line is theoretically more consistent, and we can work towards achieving closer to that without giving up the above things I talked about. But theory takes a backseat to practice, and when a player has memorised a certain movement and can be done automatically, this can be more consistent than to attempt better mechanics with conscious thought.

And even if a straight line were the best way, D-Plane date show we need a whole multitude of subtle variations to hit a straight shot. With a driver, the swing direction needs to be more to the right, and with an iron, the swing direction needs to be more left in order to zero out the resultant path.

[Mikeod5785]

Originally Posted by Adam Young

you are looking at it too one dimensionally. A player can build a whole game and strategy based on a draw shot. Their entire subconscious mind can find it easier to visualise and hence access this neural circuit in the brain. Also, it can give the player more confidence to know that their ball is curving back towards something, rather than not knowing which way it is going to go.

Physcially, yes a straight line is theoretically more consistent, and we can work towards achieving closer to that without giving up the above things I talked about. But theory takes a backseat to practice, and when a player has memorised a certain movement and can be done automatically, this can be more consistent than to attempt better mechanics with conscious thought.

And even if a straight line were the best way, D-Plane date show we need a whole multitude of subtle variations to hit a straight shot. With a driver, the swing direction needs to be more to the right, and with an iron, the swing direction needs to be more left in order to zero out the resultant path.

Stop making excuses for why you cannot hit the ball straight at will. Swallow your ego and learn how to hit the ball straight.

[Precis1on]

I would love to meet the person who can consistently zero out the resultant path every time.

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by Mikeod5785

Rubbish....if you have a tendency to hit a slight fade or draw, you do not know how to consistently square the clubface correctly, simple as that, the easiest way to get from point A to point B is a straight line

I think the saying is that the shortest way to get from A to B is a straight line, not the easiest.  As long as you're consistent is probably doesn't matter.  Though curving it one way consistently is probably easier to manage since a straight shooter is more likely to have a 2 way miss.

[Adam Young]

Originally Posted by Mikeod5785

Stop making excuses for why you cannot hit the ball straight at will. Swallow your ego and learn how to hit the ball straight.

Ha ha, good try. I can hit the ball as straight as any guy on tour. I can draw the ball, fade it on command and calibrate those feelings into a straight ball. down down for a demo if you like. I will even do it cack handed, with a claw grip and with a hammer throw swing.

But i'm more intelligent than that. I hit 100 balls with a draw, 100 balls with a fade and 100 balls trying no shape. I look for the patterns and see where the common miss is. For me, a draw shot produces a tighter dispersion between furthest right and furthest left - so i use this shot more often. Also, 96 % of shots finish left of the target with this shape for me, so it is my stock shot and my anti-right shot.

However, when there is trouble on the left, my fade shot produces an anti-left pattern (95%), although at the cost of a wider dispersion.

My straight shot has a middle dispersion with a 70% left and 30% right miss.

Why on earth would I use my straight shot when my dispersion with a draw is tighter - even though I can hit a straight shot?

[EverythingGolf]

Originally Posted by Adam Young

Ha ha, good try. I can hit the ball as straight as any guy on tour. I can draw the ball, fade it on command and calibrate those feelings into a straight ball. down down for a demo if you like. I will even do it cack handed, with a claw grip and with a hammer throw swing.

But i'm more intelligent than that. I hit 100 balls with a draw, 100 balls with a fade and 100 balls trying no shape. I look for the patterns and see where the common miss is. For me, a draw shot produces a tighter dispersion between furthest right and furthest left - so i use this shot more often. Also, 96 % of shots finish left of the target with this shape for me, so it is my stock shot and my anti-right shot.

However, when there is trouble on the left, my fade shot produces an anti-left pattern (95%), although at the cost of a wider dispersion.

My straight shot has a middle dispersion with a 70% left and 30% right miss.

Why on earth would I use my straight shot when my dispersion with a draw is tighter - even though I can hit a straight shot?

Are you talking about these types of shots with your driver or all of your clubs. I find it hard to believe you have a hard time hitting your wedge straight.

[Adam Young]

Originally Posted by EverythingGolf

Are you talking about these types of shots with your driver or all of your clubs. I find it hard to believe you have a hard time hitting your wedge straight.

This is my 6 iron patterning. Slightly differnt with a driver. With a wedge I would visualise less curvature if any at all - although a full wedge i still draw 3-5 meters

[carrx]

Originally Posted by Adam Young

Ha ha, good try. I can hit the ball as straight as any guy on tour. I can draw the ball, fade it on command and calibrate those feelings into a straight ball. down down for a demo if you like. I will even do it cack handed, with a claw grip and with a hammer throw swing.

But i'm more intelligent than that. I hit 100 balls with a draw, 100 balls with a fade and 100 balls trying no shape. I look for the patterns and see where the common miss is. For me, a draw shot produces a tighter dispersion between furthest right and furthest left - so i use this shot more often. Also, 96 % of shots finish left of the target with this shape for me, so it is my stock shot and my anti-right shot.

However, when there is trouble on the left, my fade shot produces an anti-left pattern (95%), although at the cost of a wider dispersion.

My straight shot has a middle dispersion with a 70% left and 30% right miss.

Why on earth would I use my straight shot when my dispersion with a draw is tighter - even though I can hit a straight shot?

As Emeril might say, "BAM!"

Well said.

[Dave2512]

Less about hitting it straight than not hitting a bad shot that flies too far left or right. I try to keep it on the fairway, don't care which side. I understand why a tour pro wants to be in a certain area. Minimizing my mistakes makes a good round for me.

[Mikeod5785]

Originally Posted by Precis1on

I would love to meet the person who can consistently zero out the resultant path every time.

You could have if you were alive before 2004