Lara disqualified after caddie tried to hide club

[TN94z]

I just read this on Yahoo sports .  Wow!! What would you guys do if you were the caddie in this situation?

Quote:

PULHEIM, Germany (AP) Jose Manuel Lara has been disqualified from the BMW International Open after the Spaniard's caddie attempted to hide having an extra club in his bag for the first round.

Realizing on the second hole that Lara was using 15 clubs for Thursday's round at the Gut Larcenhof course in Pulheim, the caddie tried to hide the extra club in some bushes.

Lara thought the caddie had taken a diversion for a ''call of nature,'' but his playing partners, Damien McGrane and Peter Hedblom , became suspicious. The caddie then admitted to Lara that there had been 15 clubs in the bag.

John Paramor, chief referee of the European Tour, told Lara he was disqualified from the $2.5 million tournament because a player is responsible for his caddie's actions.

Better yet...what would be going through your head if you were the golfer?

[gwlee7]

I'd be getting me a new caddie.  What's the maximun penalty for having an extra club?  2 shots per hole with a 4 stroke max I believe.  It'd be like making a couple of double bogies.  Certainly not worth getting dq'd over.  Caddie should have said "Hey boss, I screwed up and we have an extra club.  Better let them know now"

[iacas]

I like the rules, but shouldn't it have just been four strokes? The guy didn't sign his card, did he?

I know you can be DQed for a serious breach of etiquette, but this wasn't that. So under what provisions was he DQed?

But yes, I'd have a new caddie pretty quickly. I'd pull someone from the gallery, in fact, which makes the DQ that much more confusing to me.

[gwlee7]

I "guess" trying to hide the club in the bushes is what caused the DQ.  I can see how actively trying to conceal a mistake might be taken as a serious breach of etiquette.   It's the bushes part that would have me looking for a new caddie... not the extra club mistake.

[David in FL]

I like the rules, but shouldn't it have just been four strokes? The guy didn't sign his card, did he? I know you can be DQed for a serious breach of etiquette, but this wasn't that. So under what provisions was he DQed? But yes, I'd have a new caddie pretty quickly. I'd pull someone from the gallery, in fact, which makes the DQ that much more confusing to me.

Caddie is an integral part of the team and he was caught attempting to cheat. I completely understand the DQ. Compare that to Woosnam's situation in the Open Championship a few years back. No attempt to cheat, just an honest mistake and acceptance of the consequences.

[Wansteadimp]

Memories of Woosie at the last Lytham Open, without the hiding of the club.

That caddy got sacked eventually, I think after missing a tee time a couple of weeks later.

[Wally Fairway]

[RollTide]

Originally Posted by iacas

I like the rules, but shouldn't it have just been four strokes? The guy didn't sign his card, did he?

I know you can be DQed for a serious breach of etiquette, but this wasn't that. So under what provisions was he DQed?

But yes, I'd have a new caddie pretty quickly. I'd pull someone from the gallery, in fact, which makes the DQ that much more confusing to me.

Rule 33-7 - If a Committee considers that a player is guilty of a serious breach of etiquette, it may impose a penalty of disqualification under this Rule. They caddie tried to dump the club in the bushes after Lara had played two holes with it. I'd call that a serious breach of etiquette. And he better find a new caddie soon considering this guy was banned indefinitely from the tour.

[Mr3Wiggle]

I imagine that caddie will be cleaning clubs in a bag room somewhere after that one.  Who would hire him after something like that?

[zeg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

I like the rules, but shouldn't it have just been four strokes? The guy didn't sign his card, did he?

I know you can be DQed for a serious breach of etiquette, but this wasn't that. So under what provisions was he DQed?

But yes, I'd have a new caddie pretty quickly. I'd pull someone from the gallery, in fact, which makes the DQ that much more confusing to me.

This is a good question---under what rule is the DQ warranted?

It is, in fact, rule 33-7---serious breach of etiquette.  From the second paragraph of Section I: Etiquette; Behavior on the Course, titled "The Spirit of the Game," we have the following.

Quote:

Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

Thus, while it's not intuitively obvious from the term, etiquette, by definition, includes respect for and adherence to the Rules.

This is interpretation is bolstered by a couple of decisions on 33-7. First, Decision 33-7/8 clarifies the meaning of a serious breach of etiquette.

Quote:

Q. In Rule 33-7 , what is meant by a "serious breach of etiquette"?

A. A serious breach of etiquette is behavior by a player that shows a significant disregard for an aspect of the Etiquette Section, such as intentionally distracting another player or intentionally offending someone.

Although a Committee may disqualify a player under Rule 33-7 for a single act that it considers to be a serious breach of etiquette, in most cases it is recommended that such a penalty should be imposed only in the event of a further serious breach.

Ultimately, the application of a penalty for a serious breach of etiquette under Rule 33-7 is at the discretion of the Committee.

The last paragraph gives wide latitude the Committee, and the inclusion of abiding by the rules in the Etiquette section clearly grants them discretion to consider adherence to the rules as part of etiquette.  Decision 33-7/7 is an example of this:

Quote:

Q. A competitor's ball is lying through the green. He asks a fellow-competitor to remove a loose impediment lying near his ball because he believes that the removal of the loose impediment might cause his ball to move and knows that if the loose impediment is removed by an outside agency, the competitor incurs no penalty. The fellow-competitor removes the loose impediment. What is the ruling?

A. Irrespective of whether the ball moves as a result of removing the loose impediment, the action of the competitor is so contrary to the spirit of the game that the Committee should disqualify him under Rule 33-7 .

Decision 33-7/6 is also similar in this regard. Basically, while the act is not explicitly prohibited, the intent is so contrary to the spirit of the game that a DQ is warranted.

[RollTide]

One might argue that the following rule left them with no choice but disqualification.

Rule 4-4c - Any club or clubs carried or used in breach of Rule 4-3a(iii) or Rule 4-4 (this rule deals with exceeding 14 clubs) must be declared out of play by the player to his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play immediately upon discovery that a breach has occurred . The player must not use the club or clubs for the remainder of the stipulated round.

Penalty For Breach of Rule 4-4c - Disqualification

Vinson clearly did not declare the club to the opponent nor notify Lara (and here's the key word) immediately upon discovery of the 15th club; hence the disqualification. Had he have done so, the 4 stroke penalty could have been assessed and Lara could have continued play. At least that's how I interpret this rule.

[iacas]

I guess I assumed maybe the guy just walked over to the woods and chucked the club in. If he was being all secretive about it and all that, that's different, but I think I figured that would be so weird to do (sneaking off and trying to get away with it) that I didn't think that's what happened. Still, I'd like to know what the grounds are for his DQ. I agree that the player and caddie are effectively the same, but I haven't seen a rule cited which says "If the player or his caddie act like a sneaky bastard in an attempt to cover up a rules violation, the penalty is DQ."

[RollTide]

Originally Posted by iacas

I guess I assumed maybe the guy just walked over to the woods and chucked the club in. If he was being all secretive about it and all that, that's different, but I think I figured that would be so weird to do (sneaking off and trying to get away with it) that I didn't think that's what happened.

Still, I'd like to know what the grounds are for his DQ. I agree that the player and caddie are effectively the same, but I haven't seen a rule cited which says "If the player or his caddie act like a sneaky bastard in an attempt to cover up a rules violation, the penalty is DQ."

Rule 6-1 - The player and his caddie are responsible for knowing the Rules. During a stipulated round, for any breach of a Rule by his caddie, the player incurs the applicable penalty .

Rule 4-4c applies to the caddie as well.

[Gregoryhouse]

Quote:

Better yet...what would be going through your head if you were the golfer?

I don´t know what would be going through my head but I'm certain what would go to my caddie's head : my wedge!!!!

[rustyredcab]

On other threads there was some discussion about the difference between cheating and breaking the rules.

If the guy tried to hide the violation from others, the DQ makes sense. Just because he was caught before the hole finished, does not excuse trying to hide it. The "immediately" part of RoleTide's comment seems violated when you try and hide the violation. With or without the DQ'd, I can image the tour suspending player and caddie and fining them both.

And, the caddie should be out of golf by free market forces.

[RollTide]

Originally Posted by Gregoryhouse

I don´t know what would be going through my head but I'm certain what would go to my caddie's head: my wedge!!!!

Unless he had already hidden all you wedges in a nearby bush.

[Gregoryhouse]

Originally Posted by RollTide

Unless he had already hidden all you wedges in a nearby bush.

Yeah!!!!!!

[nicoy3k]

Why do the other two players even give a crap though? Incredibly douchey of them to become "suspicious" and blow the whole thing open. It was a silly mistake that gave Lara absolutley 0 advantage.