Should you actively hold the wrist angle?

[bunkerputt]

No.  Instead of trying to force it, how about fixing the mechanics that cause it.  For starters, don't over-rotate the hips on the downswing.

[nevets88]

I used to think getting lots of lag was a key to building a good swing for me. I threw that out and concentrate on getting the low point of the swing under the lead shoulder consistently. IMHO, that is way more important.

In retrospect, that should have been the thing I should have worked on from day one. I don't think about holding on or wrist angles or anything like that anymore. Still love to see players like Sergio Garcia play - his is one of my favorite swings, but that's not how I swing, I'll just stick with what I've got.

[Shaggie13]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

No.  Instead of trying to force it, how about fixing the mechanics that cause it.  For starters, don't over-rotate the hips on the downswing.

+1

I just stated this just a minute ago in the stack n' tilt thread, lol, but yes need to fix what is preventing you from achieving the proper positions with your hands and wrists at impact, i.e. wrong body movements.

[Mr. Desmond]

I don't buy into this "active" holding language.

I think you put your body into positions where it naturally holds and releases the right wrist angle with your swing.

[iacas]

Lag Happens

I should make bumper stickers.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by iacas

Lag Happens

I should make bumper stickers.

Has a nice ring to it. :P

[RPMPIRE]

I'm sure computer nerds would like this as well.

Originally Posted by iacas

Lag Happens

I should make bumper stickers.

[burner]

Glasgow,

You might find this from Ernie helpful. Classic in its simplicity, not hard to replicate and a motion favoured by the Pros themselves.

[Pablo68]

In my opinion, you probably should try to fix the underlying cause. There is something causing you to get 'flippy' at the bottom. However, you might start making improvement in one area that's causing it (better weight shift, proper sequencing) but grabbing or flipping at the bottom is ingrained to have become a habit. So ACTIVELY holding the angle during a drill might help break that habit. I vote yes but only in practice during drills.

[logman]

That's a good observation of "the box" on the vid , thanks burner

[GlasgowsGreen]

Thanks to everyone for their input. The prevalence of 'pump drill' videos on YouTube etc indicates that many people do believe that the wrist angle has to be 'held'. I remain convinced that chronic casters should try actively holding onto the wrist angle until late in the downswing. When I did this the penny just dropped - I stopped throwing the club away at the start of the downswing and instead really got a sense of holding back and whipping down and through the ball. I got to hear what proper impact sounds like. This is has now graduated onto a sense of letting the club lag back naturally before whipping it through the ball late in the swing. So, my conclusion is YES the wrist angle should be actively held if you are a chronic caster, but only as a drill to give you the feel of a late release. Once you understand what this feels like you need to try and achieve the same effect without trying to force it. Seriously, the past week or two has been a revelation for me.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by GlasgowsGreen

The prevalence of 'pump drill' videos on YouTube etc indicates that many people do believe that the wrist angle has to be 'held'.

The pump drill exists more to teach people to get their hands down in front of them without spinning open to drag their hands to impact. It has almost nothing to do with "holding the lag."

I don't want that message to be lost by typing a lot more, so I'll end this now.

[GlasgowsGreen]

My golf pro and the YouTube videos would disagree :)

[iacas]

Originally Posted by GlasgowsGreen

My golf pro and the YouTube videos would disagree :)

With what?

Players should not try to "hold the wrist angle." If your golf pro says you do or should, find a better one.

[GlasgowsGreen]

This PGA golf pro states that you have to maintain the wrist cock when doing the pump drill.

Really, every pump drill video I have watched states that it's purpose is to prevent casting and increase lag. And it's impossible to do the pump drill without actively holding the wrist cock, isn't it?

I have a bit of a 'bee in my bonnet' about this issue (as you can tell!). I really wished I had listened to the 'hold the wrist cock' people rather than the 'lag happens' folk when I first noticed my casting problem a year ago.

If you are casting and throwing the clubhead away at the top of the downswing, something drastic is needed to stop. Sliding your hips to the left to initiate the downswing isn't going to solve the problem on its own. In my opinion a chronic caster needs to physically stop himself from throwing that clubhead away. Non casters may not appreciate this.

My 2 cents :-)

[iacas]

Originally Posted by GlasgowsGreen

This PGA golf pro states that you have to maintain the wrist cock when doing the pump drill.

Yes, during the pumping, you "hold" the lag, but the drill is done at such a speed that you basically do nothing. THROWING the lag out would be more of an "act" than just maintaining it.

Originally Posted by GlasgowsGreen

Really, every pump drill video I have watched states that it's purpose is to prevent casting and increase lag. And it's impossible to do the pump drill without actively holding the wrist cock, isn't it?

The point of the drill is to teach you to get your arms down faster. Do that and the lag is maintained more naturally.

Originally Posted by GlasgowsGreen

I have a bit of a 'bee in my bonnet' about this issue (as you can tell!). I really wished I had listened to the 'hold the wrist cock' people rather than the 'lag happens' folk when I first noticed my casting problem a year ago.

If you are casting and throwing the clubhead away at the top of the downswing, something drastic is needed to stop. Sliding your hips to the left to initiate the downswing isn't going to solve the problem on its own. In my opinion a chronic caster needs to physically stop himself from throwing that clubhead away. Non casters may not appreciate this.

Well, I disagree entirely. Holding the lag tends to produce people who throw the lag out more quickly.

There are lots of ways to help a flipper or a caster.

1. The hip slide helps. Some people flip because their weight is back and they have to get the clubhead to the ball.
2. The head tips back. This is similar to #1.
3. Feel pressure from the right heel pad or thumb pad on the top of the thumb of the left hand. Keep driving that pressure forward throughout the downswing. This is not "holding" the wrist angle.
4. Get the arms down faster. If the body rotates prematurely the hands have to flip again to get the clubhead to the ball.
5. Transition properly. This can be someone not cocking the wrists so much during the backswing that they immediately throw out to whatever else.
6. etc.

Lag happens... when you do the pieces that allow it to happen. Except on a chip or an otherwise really short stroke, you're not going to have good results by "holding" any wrist angles.

[Golfingdad]

I voted no.  Seems to me like if you "actively" held the angle you would do what Jetfan does in his first video ... swing over the top of the ball by 8 inches or so.

And even if you mean that you only "actively" hold it until the point when you don't anymore, then you are talking about a very precise moment in time halfway through a very fast, quick movement, that would require an amazing consistency in your timing to repeat.

Basically, you'd have to have 2 swing triggers.  One to start your swing, and one to start the wrists uncocking.  Seems a little complicated to me.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by iacas

The pump drill exists more to teach people to get their hands down in front of them without spinning open to drag their hands to impact. It has almost nothing to do with "holding the lag."

Yes correct.  Anyone that is actively trying to hold any lag or wrist angles per any pump drills IS DOING IT WRONG.

Lag comes from a few areas, some you can learn, some is "talent".  The pivot is way more important that holding angles, got to have correct sequencing of the pivot so that the hands and arms are supported into impact.

I can guarantee you I'm not holding any wrist angles here.  I'm trying to maintain my shoulders slants and the arm straighten down with a flexed left knee.  At impact I'm trying to uncock my left wrist and smash the club in the ground.  Like if you were to hammer a nail.

If anyone is really casting, there are 4 big pieces I look at

- Grip, long left thumb and location of the right hand index finger

- weight forward, is the left knee flexing forward and long enough.  Are the feet flared at address?

- Elbows separating, might need to feel like they're squeezing together on the downswing.  Gets that right elbow in a better position.  Don't want to see space between the right elbow and your side when the shaft is parallel to the ground on the down swing.

- Can they smash the ground?  Do they know what that feels like?

Grip is important, no short left thumbs

This what can happen if you hold your wrist angles too long