Shaping the Ball

[mvmac]

Hi all

Thanks for all great help I have progressed massively and hitting my irons so good compressing ball beautifully, can anyone give advice on a draw and fade shot? Iam currently setting up with my feet left of target and club face direct at target for a fade with some great results but draw slightly harder, am playing titleist 714mbs thanks:)

Moved your post here, in addition to what @saevel25 said, check out the OP.

[Gunther]

Getting off topic but I'll make this quick and simple. Ball starts where the face is pointed and curves away from the path. That's the ball flight laws.

Yes, ok, this aligns with how I play cuts and draws. Open clubface for a cut (starts right, going right) and opposite for a draw. Then align your body and target to get the ball to end up where you want it (difficult for me). When I've ventured into some of the threads on this previously, I haven't been able to grasp it. Thanks for dumbing it down for me.

[mvmac]

Yes, ok, this aligns with how I play cuts and draws. Open clubface for a cut (starts right, going right) and opposite for a draw. Then align your body and target to get the ball to end up where you want it (difficult for me).

When I've ventured into some of the threads on this previously, I haven't been able to grasp it. Thanks for dumbing it down for me.

Moved your post here @Gunther

It would be the opposite, face should be left of the target for a fade and right of the target for a draw. Ball starts where the face is aimed at impact so you want the ball to start right of the target for a draw and left of the target for a fade. You want your shot curving towards the target, not away from it.

[Gunther]

Moved your post here @Gunther It would be the opposite, face should be left of the target for a fade and right of the target for a draw. Ball starts where the face is aimed at impact so you want the ball to start right of the target for a draw and left of the target for a fade. You want your shot curving towards the target, not away from it.

Yes, I think I have it. This is where I was confused before. When I read face left for a fade, I was thinking clubface closed and that made no sense to me. So while the club is open, you have to aim left (I usually don't aim far enough left to allow for the cut so it appears to be an over cut). My irons naturally draw so I aim at a point right of my target but my clubface certainly is not open, which is how I interpreted it in earlier threads. I'm with you.

[mvmac]

Yes, I think I have it. This is where I was confused before. When I read face left for a fade, I was thinking clubface closed and that made no sense to me.

So while the club is open, you have to aim left (I usually don't aim far enough left to allow for the cut so it appears to be an over cut). My irons naturally draw so I aim at a point right of my target but my clubface certainly is not open, which is how I interpreted it in earlier threads. I'm with you.

Yes face is open to the path for a fade. An example of a fade would be

Face- 2 degrees left of the target

Path- 4 degrees left of the target.

Body alignment at address-  7-8 degrees left of the target (depends how far out to the right your stock path is). Aiming left helps if you normally hit a draw because you don't have to change your swing.

[Gunther]

Yes face is open to the path for a fade. An example of a fade would be  Face- 2 degrees left of the target Path- 4 degrees left of the target. Body alignment at address-  7-8 degrees left of the target (depends how far out to the right your stock path is). Aiming left helps if you normally hit a draw because you don't have to change your swing.

Got it and appreciate it. I'm out of the cave. Really, it was just my misinterpretation of things I've read here; I've essentially known this most of my golfing career but nice to know I no longer have to run and hide when ball flight laws are discussed. ;)

[Cody Book]

I'm getting a little confused with the whole club path and club face angle. I made this image would you be able to relate from the first post which shot shape goes with each image.

Red lines are club path and blue lines are club face angle.

I forgot to number them lets go

1    2   3

4    5   6

7    8   9

I assume, using your letters from the image on the first page, 3 = H a push, 5 = E straight, 7 = B a pull

[billchao]

Red lines are club path and blue lines are club face angle. I forgot to number them lets go  1    2   3  4    5   6  7    8   9 [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/128157/] [/URL]

1. Pull-draw 2. Straight-draw 3. Push-draw. The face appears to be slightly closed to the path, so I'm not going to call that a push. 4. Pull-draw 5. Straight 6. Push-fade 7. Pull 8. Straight-fade 9. Push-fade If you meant for the angles in #3 to be perpendicular, then it would be a push. You also didn't illustrate a pull-fade, which would have a closed face with a path to the left of it. Basically like #7 if the path was more left, forming an obtuse angle between the path and face.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

I asked this same question over in my (my swing) thread, but just saw this thread surface to the top of the new posts and thought it was relevant here. Does the ball know the difference between me setting up 30* right and swinging 25* left (effective club path 5* right of target) vs. setting up square and swinging 5* right of target?

[mvmac]

I'm getting a little confused with the whole club path and club face angle. I made this image would you be able to relate from the first post which shot shape goes with each image.

Just remember, ball starts where the face is pointed and curves away from the path.

I asked this same question over in my (my swing) thread, but just saw this thread surface to the top of the new posts and thought it was relevant here.

Does the ball know the difference between me setting up 30* right and swinging 25* left (effective club path 5* right of target) vs. setting up square and swinging 5* right of target?

That would be a pull draw vs a push draw (assuming face was a little right of the target at set-up). A pull draw can be an ok pattern, going to run into some issues with the long irons and possibly distance control. While you can still draw it by "swinging left", the ball would know the difference because the impact alignments (delivered loft, angle of attack) just wouldn't be the same. Would also be tough to be consistent with the face angle/start line if you were swinging so much across your body. Push draws/fades tend to be a more reliable pattern.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

Just remember, ball starts where the face is pointed and curves away from the path.  That would be a pull draw vs a push draw (assuming face was a little right of the target at set-up). A pull draw can be an ok pattern, going to run into some issues with the long irons and possibly distance control. While you can still draw it by "swinging left", the ball would know the difference because the impact alignments (dynamic loft, angle of attack) just wouldn't be the same. Would also be tough to be consistent with the face angle/start line if you were swinging so much across your body. Push draws/fades tend to be a more reliable pattern.

Yes, I am currently hitting a pull draw. I'm setting up far enough right and getting my club face right of target (but left of path) that the ball is starting right of target and drawing back to target. I only need to set up like this to hit my driver well. My irons are all hit with a square setup. I know this pull draw setup isn't ideal, but until I can train myself to swing my driver out to the right more, I was just curious as to whether it's playable? Given my current swing, it seems like my best option. It's much better than hitting straight pulls into the trees left or a very weak glancing slice.

[Cody Book]

Yes i realize now that a messed my picture up. The first two pictures have the face closed to the path. And the 3rd is perpendicular to the path. I attempted to have the first with a closed face, the second square and the third open. Pictures 4, 5, 6 are how i intended. But i did the same with 7, 8, 9. I wanted one picture for the oitside inpath with an open, square, closed. So the ball starts in the direction of the face and not the path?

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

Yes i realize now that a messed my picture up. The first two pictures have the face closed to the path. And the 3rd is perpendicular to the path. I attempted to have the first with a closed face, the second square and the third open. Pictures 4, 5, 6 are how i intended. But i did the same with 7, 8, 9. I wanted one picture for the oitside inpath with an open, square, closed. So the ball starts in the direction of the face and not the path?

Yes, the ball starts in the direction of the face and curves away from the path.

[mvmac]

So the ball starts in the direction of the face and not the path?

Yes the ball primarily starts where the face is pointed at impact.

[iacas]

Note that the graphic there is relative to your body alignment. A push-fade is a perfectly playable shot that can finish at the target if you aim left enough, ain't that right Mr. Trevino? And a pull-draw can work too, right Mr. Snead?

Does the ball know the difference between me setting up 30* right and swinging 25* left (effective club path 5* right of target) vs. setting up square and swinging 5* right of target?

Delivered loft and other things are going to be VERY different with a massive pull-draw versus a push draw.

So the ball starts in the direction of the face and not the path?

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

[newtogolf]

Yes the ball primarily starts where the face is pointed at impact.

So rather than alter your swing is adjusting the club face in your grip at address sufficient enough to shape the ball ?

[iacas]

So rather than alter your swing is adjusting the club face in your grip at address sufficient enough to shape the ball ?

Along with moving your body (alignment), yes.

[newtogolf]

Along with moving your body (alignment), yes.

Okay, good because that's what I've been doing and getting pretty good results with it but I wanted to make sure I wasn't engraining another bad habit.