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sofingaw

Titleist Commercials - Pro V1/Pro V1x - Does Compression Matter?

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Originally Posted by tefunk

This new marketing is definitely inconsistent with why they came out with the NXT-Tour S.  The "S" version of the NXT-Tour was supposed to be for players who preferred or needed a softer compression.  It is very interesting how they are claiming something to the contrary now, but I have a guess as to their angle.

Per SAGolfLuvr's comment on getting better results, it's likely does not have anything to do with compression (but it still could).  It's likely due to the spin.  If Golfer #1 has a driver swing speed of 105mph and has a slight fade or draw on the ball, he's probably looking at roughly 260 yard carry.  Take Golfer #2, with a driver swing speed of 105mph but has a major slice going on, there's no way he's going to carry the ball 260 (no matter where he aims) as the ball would have to travel much further to reach the same landing point.  So it makes perfect sense why people would get better results based on the spin (or dimple design) of the ball... (e.g. NXT-Tour flying straighter and farther then the Pro-V1).

However, compression can still matter for some people.  Anyone remember kickball from elementary school (or actually adult leagues now)?  Ever kick a kickball without enough air in it?  It actually goes a little farther if you apply a little less force to it.  Ever kick a kickball with too much air in it?  It doesn't go very far unless you're able to apply enough force to it.  In order for a ball (golf, kickball, soccer, football, tennis ball) to move, it needs a force applied to it.  There is an optimum force depending on compression of the ball.  If you have a swing speed of 95mph, you may not really notice too much difference, other than the feel.  But take someone who has a swing speed of 70mph, and I would bet a bit of money they will hit a lower compression ball farther than a tour ball (all other things constant).

So maybe what Titleist is getting at is if you're in the category that you don't notice a huge difference in the distance and spin is not an issue, then yes, you're probably better off with a scoring ball to save strokes around the green.  But, there is a reason they make balls for people with lower swing speeds and it is because compression can matter.  It's similar to a child's tennis racquet not being strung as tight and using lower compression balls... because they can't apply the necessary force to the ball.

I imagine I could be totally wrong on all of this, but it certainly makes logical sense when I reminisce about what I learned in physics way back in high school.

It would be interesting to see the actual results of their test to know which group they are basing their new marketing on.

That all makes alot of sense to me. maybe titleist is saying compression doesn't REALLY matter.

I personally dont worry about the 5 yards or whatever I lose with any ball. I want the ball that performs best around the green.

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Yeah, I can buy the angle that it doesn't REALLY matter, as well. But I do like the kickball analogy. Seems that it must matter somewhat.

I think a fair question is: Just how much faster or slower than average (say, 95 MPH?)  does your swing speed have to be to take significant advantage (say 10 or 15+ yards of distance)  from a harder or softer than normal ball? Interesting stuff.

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I volunteer for our local LPGA tourney every year, and have accumulated a lot of their balls (signed of course). By far and away, they all play the same high-end tour balls the men do, and we know their swign speeds are much lower. The ladies are not shy of taking advantadge of any technological advantage available, so even if there might be a slight gain in driver distance with these 'non-tour' balls, that must be overcome by the control and spin issues. I find the same to be true in my experience. I would much rather know that a 100yd wedge is going to feel sweet and do what I expect than lose 10yds off my drive - so what.

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Originally Posted by sofingaw

"I am a very high handicapper, (as in, not a member anywhere, and I have kept score exactly twice, and had a 151 and, more recently, a 128)

and I totally agree with the idea of consistency with equipment, so I am looking for the right ball for me. Once I find it, I intend to stay with it."

Hey Sofingaw,

without making any presumptions on the various aspects of your game - I would say no. You don't need to playing a high end ball. If you properly strike a mid range ball like an nxt tour or bridgestone E series ball.... it will spin some for you. By this I mean - hit down on the ball and take a divot AFTER the ball. The end balls do help a lot with partial wedges and also if you WANT to have some spin to work your driver etc etc...but the reality is that until your getting below the 90 or so range...it's probably not the best way to spend your money. If money is no option then go for it.

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Dak4n6 - I'm an LPGA fan myself and always went to the major (Wegmans LPGA Championship) when it came to Rochester, NY when I lived there.

I think when talking about distance, most of the LPGA players hit the ball farther than the average golfer (which is who Titleist is saying compression doesn't matter for).  So most of the LPGA (if not all) would be in the category of golfers where the compression really doesn't have much effect on their distance.  So, like you said they play the ball which provides the highest value to their score (short game).

I'm not disagreeing with you, just an addition to your comment.

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Originally Posted by dak4n6

I volunteer for our local LPGA tourney every year, and have accumulated a lot of their balls (signed of course). By far and away, they all play the same high-end tour balls the men do, and we know their swign speeds are much lower. The ladies are not shy of taking advantadge of any technological advantage available, so even if there might be a slight gain in driver distance with these 'non-tour' balls, that must be overcome by the control and spin issues. I find the same to be true in my experience. I would much rather know that a 100yd wedge is going to feel sweet and do what I expect than lose 10yds off my drive - so what.

exactly...

and the change in distance between "distance" balls and "tour" balls is about 4 yards or so...not enough to give up the short game control and feel, IMO.

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Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer

Its called, "marketing".

Oh brother. More of the Titleist Fanboy turned Mizuno Shill and Titleist Hatemonger.

Simple fact: a firmer ball (higher compression) will, given the same impact conditions, always have a higher ballspeed . Period. You don't get a higher ball speed with a lower compression golf ball.

That's not marketing, that's basic common sense. The "marketing" side of it is that they're preaching that and ignoring the other fact a little, which is this:

The reason companies can claim higher distances with their lower compression balls is because the ball will spin more, and a lot of slower swingers don't generate enough backspin to keep the ball in the air long enough.

140 MPH ball speed and 1800 RPM isn't going to go as far as 137 MPH ball speed with 3000 RPM backspin at a fairly wide range of launch angles.

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Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer

For years Titleist has been trying to tell people that the Pro V1 is the right ball for everyone.  This, "compression doesnt matter" campaign is just their latest attempt at trying to get hacks to play a more expensive ball.

Yeah, the claims they make in these new ads are odd considering that they are also marketing their "Velocity" ball at the same time.

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Let's just agree that what matters far more is taking a proper swing.  Not meant to be an insult, but ball choice is, imo, one of the very last things a 20+ handicapper should worry about.  When you start hitting the ball consistently, getting it to land approximately where you want it to, and want a slightly different reaction on the green, that might be the time to worry about the ball you're playing.  Tour level balls will definitely spin more, but whether that's actually preferable for your game is an entirely separate question.  With my swing (nothing particularly special) a Wilson Staff Fifty Elite, Top Flite D2, or any other cheap ball will stop where it lands or back up slightly with most irons.  Tour level balls back up more.  Depending on the day, the course, the weather, etc, I choose to play one or another.  That being said, I've rarely, if ever, played with a beginner/20+ 'capper who was hurting their score because they weren't "spinning more" when they hit the green.  The ball usually misses the green completely, just gets on, or flies off the back with no chance of stopping.

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I just lost all of my E6/E6+ balls on my last round and have been researching balls. Reading this one, I may switch to something that gives me better greenside manor. I was considering getting a ball fitting from Golf Galaxy for 20 bucks. Has anyone done this before?

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You'd be better off with $20 towards lessons/practice and the cheapest balls you could find.

Originally Posted by robrey85

I just lost all of my E6/E6+ balls on my last round and have been researching balls. Reading this one, I may switch to something that gives me better greenside manor. I was considering getting a ball fitting from Golf Galaxy for 20 bucks. Has anyone done this before?

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You make the assumption that all 20+ handicaps are 20+ for the same reasons.  A 20+ handicap could have issues off the tee but not with their wedges so in that case the extra spin could help lower their scores.

Originally Posted by max power

Let's just agree that what matters far more is taking a proper swing.  Not meant to be an insult, but ball choice is, imo, one of the very last things a 20+ handicapper should worry about.  When you start hitting the ball consistently, getting it to land approximately where you want it to, and want a slightly different reaction on the green, that might be the time to worry about the ball you're playing.  Tour level balls will definitely spin more, but whether that's actually preferable for your game is an entirely separate question.  With my swing (nothing particularly special) a Wilson Staff Fifty Elite, Top Flite D2, or any other cheap ball will stop where it lands or back up slightly with most irons.  Tour level balls back up more.  Depending on the day, the course, the weather, etc, I choose to play one or another.  That being said, I've rarely, if ever, played with a beginner/20+ 'capper who was hurting their score because they weren't "spinning more" when they hit the green.  The ball usually misses the green completely, just gets on, or flies off the back with no chance of stopping.

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Originally Posted by max power

You'd be better off with $20 towards lessons/practice and the cheapest balls you could find.


I already take lessons. I'll pass on the cheapest balls I can find. I buy my balls on Ebay anyway to save the most money possible but with buying decent to mint condition balls. I'd rather find out what works best with how I play currently so I can continue to play my best and then if I need to switch later on when my HC gets lower, I can do that as well.

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the only reason that should discourage a high handicapper from playing a tour level ball is not wanting to lose 3-4 dollars at a time if you dunk one or send one squirrel hunting vs. 1-2 dollars for lower to mid-level balls.

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I already take lessons. I'll pass on the cheapest balls I can find. I buy my balls on Ebay anyway to save the most money possible but with buying decent to mint condition balls. I'd rather find out what works best with how I play currently so I can continue to play my best and then if I need to switch later on when my HC gets lower, I can do that as well.

Gamer V2s. $20 bucks.. three piece.ball.. Walmart.. Dicks.. or Sports Authority. Im sure youre losing ur balls off the tee. Or with poor iron hits. Not because of lack of spin on the greens.

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Originally Posted by x129

really? ladies and jr's loose distance? I would have put money on it that it was the opposite way. What would your guess be on lost yardage of a Pro V to a Womens ball? The only reason I ask this is that I hit a "comparison drive" this weekend. First ball was with my R7425 and a Pro V, my buddy just got an F12 so I hit another with it and for some unknown reason someone in the 4 some had a DDH lady that I teed up and put about 5 yards shorter than my first drive.

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Originally Posted by Goonsidious

Gamer V2s. $20 bucks.. three piece.ball.. Walmart.. Dicks.. or Sports Authority.

Im sure youre losing ur balls off the tee. Or with poor iron hits. Not because of lack of spin on the greens.

Thanks, I'll give them a shot.

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