2012 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[phan52]

Originally Posted by MSchott

Once again, focusing on what happened (especially when no one other than Phil and Davis know what they talked about) on Saturday when the day ended 10-6 in favor of the US is foolish. The story is what happened on Sunday when Europe made huge putts and the US did not. It's as simple as that, internet tough guy.

Phil Mickelson was very emphatic about what he did when Davis Love III came out to talk to him about playing in the afternoon, and Davis Love III was very upfront about how weird he thought it was. He said it was the most strange Ryder Cup experience of his life.

I would like to know what Bradley thinks about what went down because I am sure he wanted to play.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by jimdandy

I think Mickelson is arrogant, pompous, pretentious, and a sham! Never liked this phony baloney.

The fact that he spoke for Keegan, is disgusting. Keegan is 26, you KNOW he wanted to play Saturday afternoon.

In that conference, Phil kept saying "we" have exhausted all our energies, "we" can't play this afternoon. Keegan could have played 3 rounds that day!

I believe Mickelson strong-armed Davis in his decisions. And not just ones involving him.

Davis even alluded to it in the press conference, saying that he wanted to do certain things, but guys did or didn't want to play - referring to Phil.

That goofy wry smile... it's all BS. I don't buy it.

Just like the "thumbs up", and clapping. Its all phony BS!

And if you don't have a problem with the clapping, you don't get competition.

Its considered wrong for a 1st baseman, for example, to clap or high five a batter's monumental achievement (500th HR).

You won't see it done, and the few times someone has, they were called out by teammates.

You NEVER cheer a competitor at the Ryder Cup, especially 18th hole in an even match.

A lot of what you're saying sounds made up (like the baseball stuff for example - ie the player is respected he gets props from both teams).. Extremelty biased at the very least.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

A lot of what you're saying sounds made up (like the baseball stuff for example - ie the player is respected he gets props from both teams).. Extremelty biased at the very least.

The stuff about Mickelson is not made up. Watch the post-Cup press conference.

[jamo]

The fact that he spoke for Keegan , is disgusting. Keegan is 26, you KNOW he wanted to play Saturday afternoon.

Because that's not, y'know, exactly what you're doing here.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by phan52

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

A lot of what you're saying sounds made up (like the baseball stuff for example - ie the player is respected he gets props from both teams).. Extremelty biased at the very least.

The stuff about Mickelson is not made up. Watch the post-Cup press conference.

Right from the first sentence the Mickelson bit is biased. The baseball stuff is not consistent with the baseball I've watched over the years, but maybe those got a dressing down after the game . . . off camera.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by jimdandy

And if you don't have a problem with the clapping, you don't get competition.

Its considered wrong for a 1st baseman, for example, to clap or high five a batter's monumental achievement (500th HR).

You won't see it done, and the few times someone has, they were called out by teammates.

I get it perfectly, and I have no problem whatsoever with the clapping.  That was a highlight of the day for me.

And it's not considered wrong for players to acknowledge other's monumental acheivements, it happens all the time.  The only person I can ever remember getting "called out" in that type of situation was Eric Show ... the pitcher who gave up Pete Roses record breaking hit, then proceeded to sit on the mound like a pouty 4 year old throughout the whole ceremony.

Secondly, baseball is not exactly the best example of sportsmanship because they don't even shake hands after games or series'.  I know of no other sport that is like that.

[jimdandy]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

A lot of what you're saying sounds made up (like the baseball stuff for example - ie the player is respected he gets props from both teams).. Extremelty biased at the very least.

Here's Arod's home run. i guess i make this stuff up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4ATf45uedc

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by jimdandy

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

A lot of what you're saying sounds made up (like the baseball stuff for example - ie the player is respected he gets props from both teams).. Extremelty biased at the very least.

Here's Arod's home run. i guess i make this stuff up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4ATf45uedc

No, you're just doing selective reading. Since when is A-Rod respected?

[jimdandy]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

No, you're just doing selective reading. Since when is A-Rod respected?

lol, i wont even respond to that. ill debate with others.

you're unzipped!

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by jimdandy

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

No, you're just doing selective reading. Since when is A-Rod respected?

lol, i wont even respond to that. ill debate with others.

you're unzipped!

Not sure what that means, but you "debating" with others works out well for both of us.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by jimdandy

Here's Arod's home run. i guess i make this stuff up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4ATf45uedc

Originally Posted by sean_miller

No, you're just doing selective reading. Since when is A-Rod respected?

Exactly.  You chose one example, and as a person with the stance of "this never happens" you don't have that luxury.  And A-Rod is widely considered a tool (heck, his teammates, save for the guys who were on base, didn't even meet him at home plate - that should tell you something) so why would anybody show sportsmanship and class towards somebody who lacks it?

Remember this?

And let's not also forget yelling at the third baseman in a game while running past him so he would drop the ball, and that whole running across the pitchers mound last season (personally think that one is silly, but it showed the other players' disdain for him)

Instead, I give you this clip:

Check out the 0:16 mark.  Yes, that would be the first baseman of the Montreal Expos shaking his hand (And for good measure, the umpire at 0:20, and not to mention the standing ovation he received for the entire time in the opposing teams ballpark)

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by MSchott

Enough of your idiocy. The US team regardless of whether Mickelson played 2X on Saturday were up by 4 points going into Singles. What happened Saturday is inconsequential and anyone ripping on Phil for whatever may have transpired is just here to hate on him. You have proven that you don't like him and are incapable of rational thought in this matter.

When Tiger does something he gets crucified. Phil has gotten a pass on many very bad Ryder playing. Why can people rip Tiger and nothing is said and you cry like a baby when it's Phil?

The fact is..... no matter what.... you dont go running to your Captain and tell them to sit Keegan.

BTW, I don't put this on Mickelson as much as DL3.

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Exactly.  You chose one example, and as a person with the stance of "this never happens" you don't have that luxury.  And A-Rod is widely considered a tool (heck, his teammates, save for the guys who were on base, didn't even meet him at home plate - that should tell you something) so why would anybody show sportsmanship and class towards somebody who lacks it?

Check out the 0:16 mark.  Yes, that would be the first baseman of the Montreal Expos shaking his hand (And for good measure, the umpire at 0:20, and not to mention the standing ovation he received for the entire time in the opposing teams ballpark)

Absolutely right. Another example is when Mickey Mantle hit his last career HR, not only did the 1st baseman shake his han, but the pitch on which he hit it was grooved to him by Tiger's pitcher Denny McClain!

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by Joakim

When Tiger does something he gets crucified. Phil has gotten a pass on many very bad Ryder playing. Why can people rip Tiger and nothing is said and you cry like a baby when it's Phil?

The fact is..... no matter what.... you dont go running to your Captain and tell them to sit Keegan.

BTW, I don't put this on Mickelson as much as DL3.

I'm not excusing Phil's overall RC play. I was at Oakland Hills in 2004 when he sliced his drive on 18 into the woods (bonehead shot and bonehead matchup with Tiger by Sutton) and tried a totally bizarre run up shot on 16 that went in the pond.

That's not the point. Ripping on Phil and placing some blame for the US loss on what happened on Saturday is misplaced. What happened with the entire team on Sunday is what's pertinent.

[jimdandy]

Congratulating someone is different in every situation.

When the "game" means nothing....like in your tony gwynn clip. That was in August, 1999 @ Montreal.

That year Expos finished 35 games out. Padres 26 games out. There were about 23 fans in the park.

But when something spectacular is done, and the game is meaningful? You will never ever ever see the other team showing support, applause. Heck, have you ever seen another golfer ever ever do it??

Mickelson is a moron. First you demand sitting out arguably the most dominating duo in this era. Then you applaud your adversary going to 18.

Simply wrong. And i know I'm in the majority. Just turn your radio on and listen. His thumbs up, clapping is the most talked about situation at the ryder cup... in a negative way.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Right from the first sentence the Mickelson bit is biased. The baseball stuff is not consistent with the baseball I've watched over the years, but maybe those got a dressing down after the game . . . off camera.

I don't know about anybody else, but I've been a fan of Phil's for most of his career. If anything, I might be biased in his favor. But what he pulled on Saturday at the Ryder Cup was out of line and arrogant. And I believe, from Love's statements on the issue, that Love thinks so as well. Like I said, watch the presser.

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by jimdandy

Mickelson is a moron. First you demand sitting out arguably the most dominating duo in this era. Then you applaud your adversary going to 18.

Simply wrong. And i know I'm in the majority. Just turn your radio on and listen. His thumbs up, clapping is the most talked about situation at the ryder cup... in a negative way.

Yeah, cause hosts of sports talk radio shows and the crazed fanatics who callthem are the best judges of this sort of thing, right? Most experts who actually played the game at a high level aren't condemning Phil for his Sunday actions. Like I posted earlier I played match play at a pretty high level (division I college), and things like this went on all the time.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by Golf Man

1. Fair enough but doesn't change the fact that it had no affect whatsoever on Rose's birdie at the 18th - he holed big putts at 16,17 & 18 (possibly only guy to birdie 18 all day?). People react differently to things on the course - Mickleson could have not acknowledged the putt from Rose on 17 and stormed off - would have had no affect at all on the outcome

2. First off all players didn't play 3 matches - all played on all 3 days and everyone played at least 3, with most playing 4 (Bradley, Mickleson, Simpson, Watson, Dufner & Johnson, Woods & Stricker). Kuchar & D Johnson played 2 4 balls, Furyk & Snedeker played 2 4somes. Again I find it hard to criticise Loves performance over the first 2 days given the 10-6 lead that the US had, even if he didn't show great flexibility. What he arguably should have done was have Stricker and Woods sit out the Friday foursomes (given that they were always going to be better in the fourballs), let them play on the Friday afternoon and if it went well then consider them playing 2 rounds on the Saturday. People should also realise that Woods & Stricker lost 2&1, 1up and 1up - they weren't exactly battered. Love probably didn't see the need to change things as they were going well over the first two days - again this is not where teh Cup was lost

3. There are obviously questions about DL3 on the Sunday - was his approach right? His first 5 players out were Watson, Simpson, Bradley (all major winners), Mickleson (multiple major winner) and Snedeker (Fed Ex Champ) - all had winning records going into the singles and seemed to be thriving on the Ryder Cyup experience. I think DL3 was very aware that he didn't want Europe to get momentum early on so he put his form players out early. He was right to have confidence in them beating their opposition - Poulter was obviously playing well, Rose, Donald & McIlroy had played ok, Lawrie isn't exactly a big gun for Europe. Look at what happened to Europe in 1999 - they had 3 players in the top 5 who hadn't played at all that week - they were always going to lose their games. He got a couple of things wrong with regards to the order - i think Olazabal got one over on him by having Donald out first. Watson was a predicatble choice and I think Love assumed that Europe would go with Poulter first - Poulter-Watson would have developed into a bit of a circus. I think he should have put Tiger out first, Stricker last and possibly Furyk out earlier

4. Simple fact is that US needed 4.5 points out of 12 on Sunday and got 3.5 - while you can argue the small points of Loves order the simple fact is that those US players (all of whom had played on both days) in the form that they were in should have got teh points that they needed, no matter what order europe went out in. Whether that was down to maybe taking the eye off the ball, choking, the Europeans playing really well (and lets be honest its a combination of all of these). To try to blame the defeat on Woods & Stricker playing in the 4 balls on Saturday is ignoring the obvious

1) It just felt weird at the time as a fan to see him applauding, the crowd even started clapping more. And it wasn't that great a play. Rose was about 6-8 feet in front of Phil's ball (which he almost holed) and Phil made a good chip that gave him the line. Playing Ryder in Europe the Brits boo, shout and are extremely partisan to their team. They make it very uncomfortable to play and we applaud them.

2) Fact. Not one of our players played all 4 matches on Fousomes. This has never been done in Ryder History.

.

3) Nick Faldo said match play is nothing like foursomes. Your alone you don't have your teamate to calm you. My thinking at the time is lead out with Ryder experience TW,PM and JF. Beside SS our other matchups would have a big advantage.

4) Regarding Woods and Stricker. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.