2012 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Joakim

Phil admits it on TV, click http://www.golfchannel.com/media/live-from-2012-sunday-feature-4/ Check mate.

I tried but for some reason, the video wouldn't load, but ...

Originally Posted by k-troop

jimdandy, phan52, and Joakim are all the same person, right?  This is like a bad movie that just doesn't end.

... on that same page I found this link: http://www.golfchannel.com/news/jason-sobel/ryder-cup-blame-game-12-myths-you-need-to-know/ to Jason Sobel's article that covers all of the silly topics we've been discussing for the last 2 days.

The truth about the Mickelson "demands" is Myth #1.

“Keegan and I knew going in that we were not playing in the afternoon, and we said on the first tee, ‘We are going to put everything we have into this one match, because we are not playing the afternoon,’” Mickelson said Sunday night. “When we got to 10, I went to Davis and I said, ‘Listen, you're seeing our best. You cannot put us in the afternoon, because we emotionally and mentally are not prepared for it.”

How this gets translated into anything other than 'being a team player' is beyond me.  A lot of you are blasting Phil for this, and a lot of you are blasting DLIII for this too.  My question:  If DLIII ignores Phil's request and puts them back out there and they lose because they are mentally drained, and of course go on to lose Sunday (they lost anyway, neither of them is going to play better if they are more exhausted, right?), then how quickly are you throwing Love under the bus for NOT listening to his player?  (It's a rhetorical question - I already know the answer)

This whole thing is a big joke.  The US team played a great Ryder Cup.  The European team played a teensy tiny itty bitty bit better Ryder Cup.  Congrats Europe and to all of the players and coaches on both teams ... well fought, well done, the end.

[Chas]

He absolutely did. Go watch the press conference....its right there!! Mickelson told him...."do not play us" Watch the video, before you respond and you will see Davis's emotions....pissed that he didn't go along with his gut, and allow Phil to convince him otherwise.

Haven't been able to view the video on iPAD or iMac or PC - what's with that? It was DL3's decision, not PM's, and it was the plan prior (whether or not you agree). I'm assuming that DL3 had agreed to it. We will never know what would have happened if they had played again. Phil obviously was concerned about being asked to play every session, I.e. how the singles results might be affected. What should he do - conceal his opinion? If Phil had been asked to play again he might or might not have won. DL3 also had the option of playing Bradley with someone else. That's what it means to be Captain - you make the decisions and should be able to defend them. 'Dad: well said . The U.S. played well overall, Europe very slightly better. People should just suck it up. Just saw again Rose's long putt on the 17th ( Golf Channel replay) - truly a great piece of golf in the circumstances!

[jimdandy]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I tried but for some reason, the video wouldn't load, but ...

... on that same page I found this link: http://www.golfchannel.com/news/jason-sobel/ryder-cup-blame-game-12-myths-you-need-to-know/ to Jason Sobel's article that covers all of the silly topics we've been discussing for the last 2 days.

The truth about the Mickelson "demands" is Myth #1.

“Keegan and I knew going in that we were not playing in the afternoon, and we said on the first tee, ‘We are going to put everything we have into this one match, because we are not playing the afternoon,’” Mickelson said Sunday night. “When we got to 10, I went to Davis and I said, ‘Listen, you're seeing our best. You cannot put us in the afternoon, because we emotionally and mentally are not prepared for it.”

How this gets translated into anything other than 'being a team player' is beyond me.  A lot of you are blasting Phil for this, and a lot of you are blasting DLIII for this too.  My question:  If DLIII ignores Phil's request and puts them back out there and they lose because they are mentally drained, and of course go on to lose Sunday (they lost anyway, neither of them is going to play better if they are more exhausted, right?), then how quickly are you throwing Love under the bus for NOT listening to his player?  (It's a rhetorical question - I already know the answer)

This whole thing is a big joke.  The US team played a great Ryder Cup.  The European team played a teensy tiny itty bitty bit better Ryder Cup.  Congrats Europe and to all of the players and coaches on both teams ... well fought, well done, the end.

Oh please. Thats your job when selected Captain, leader of team USA. You make tough decisions. Phil made that decision, and in the press conference Davis kinda threw Phil under the bus about it...."yes, i could have done things differently etc." Thats when Phil, rudely, interrupted Davis. Watch the video.......

You don't let a player tell you what to do when you're Captain. They played ELEVEN HOLES Saturday AM!! They had time to eat lunch, sleep, play ping-pong, sleep some more, have a snack, Xbox, then one last power nap - before teeing off.

DL3, doesn't have the personality to lead a Ryder Cup team. I would lay odds that he isn't even a thought for Scotland.

[jimdandy]

Oh please. Thats your job when selected Captain, leader of team USA. You make tough decisions. Phil made that decision, and in the press conference Davis kinda threw Phil under the bus about it...."yes, i could have done things differently etc." Thats when Phil, rudely, interrupted Davis. Watch the video.......

You don't let a player tell you what to do when you're Captain. They played ELEVEN HOLES Saturday AM!! They had time to eat lunch, sleep, play ping-pong, sleep some more, have a snack, Xbox, then one last power nap - before teeing off.

DL3, doesn't have the personality to lead a Ryder Cup team. I would lay odds that he isn't even a thought for Scotland.

[newtogolf]

They played 12 holes of Foursomes golf, they took 43 shots total which is about 22 each.  Are we really supposed to believe that both of them were too drained to play another match after 22 swings?  Even if Phil couldn't handle it, why speak for Keegan who could have been teamed with Snedeker.  They could have sat Woods and Stricker.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I tried but for some reason, the video wouldn't load, but ...

... on that same page I found this link: http://www.golfchannel.com/news/jason-sobel/ryder-cup-blame-game-12-myths-you-need-to-know/ to Jason Sobel's article that covers all of the silly topics we've been discussing for the last 2 days.

The truth about the Mickelson "demands" is Myth #1.

“Keegan and I knew going in that we were not playing in the afternoon, and we said on the first tee, ‘We are going to put everything we have into this one match, because we are not playing the afternoon,’” Mickelson said Sunday night. “When we got to 10, I went to Davis and I said, ‘Listen, you're seeing our best. You cannot put us in the afternoon, because we emotionally and mentally are not prepared for it.”

How this gets translated into anything other than 'being a team player' is beyond me.  A lot of you are blasting Phil for this, and a lot of you are blasting DLIII for this too.  My question:  If DLIII ignores Phil's request and puts them back out there and they lose because they are mentally drained, and of course go on to lose Sunday (they lost anyway, neither of them is going to play better if they are more exhausted, right?), then how quickly are you throwing Love under the bus for NOT listening to his player?  (It's a rhetorical question - I already know the answer)

This whole thing is a big joke.  The US team played a great Ryder Cup.  The European team played a teensy tiny itty bitty bit better Ryder Cup.  Congrats Europe and to all of the players and coaches on both teams ... well fought, well done, the end.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Are we really supposed to believe that both of them were too drained to play another match after 22 swings?

You don't have to, but the alternative is what?  That they weren't drained and they were lying ... which means that they didn't want to play, why?  Because they wanted to lose the Ryder Cup?

Doesn't that seem a little bit ridiculous to you?

And, again, who cares?  It's been said numerous times on here that they led 10-6 after Saturday.  10-6!  No decisions that were or weren't made prior to Sunday hurt them.  Winning 3.5 points out of 12 on Sunday is what cost them.

[jimdandy]

Every point counts.

By the way, that confrontation where Phil told Davis...."do not play us, this is the best we have"

Could that have led to some sort of friction that night??

Something to think about.

Not surprised that pompous phil was in the middle.

[WWBDD]

http://xkcd.com/386/

[Chas]

Give up on the hysteria over DL3's decision on Sat. Your guys were 4 up on Sun morning and blew the lead in the most massive singles failure in the history of the RC. What happened on the 17th and 18th holes on Sunday (that I'm watching again now on the GC) was an unmitigated DISASTER. Someone should make a DVD of selected holes as an example HOW NOT TO FINISH the Ryder Cup and sell it to aspiring youth. I can understand that this can be hard to accept. Time to move on.

[newtogolf]

I haven't heard Keegan state he was too tired, Phil made the call for both of them based on what he said at the press conference.  If they played and won, it would be 11-5 and maybe that changes the dynamics going into Sunday.  We can't rewind and see how it plays out so in that sense the whole discussion is moot.

The point I and most people that are critical of DL3 (including most golf analysts) is that DL3 should have sat Tiger / Stricker and if Phil couldn't go at least team Keegan up with someone.  The analysts believe it's because DL3 is still on the PGA Tour and that he didn't want to ruffle Phil's feathers but that a guy not on Tour might have told Phil to go out there or at least thrown Keegan out there in the afternoon.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

You don't have to, but the alternative is what?  That they weren't drained and they were lying ... which means that they didn't want to play, why?  Because they wanted to lose the Ryder Cup?

Doesn't that seem a little bit ridiculous to you?

And, again, who cares?  It's been said numerous times on here that they led 10-6 after Saturday.  10-6!  No decisions that were or weren't made prior to Sunday hurt them.  Winning 3.5 points out of 12 on Sunday is what cost them.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I tried but for some reason, the video wouldn't load, but ...

... on that same page I found this link: http://www.golfchannel.com/news/jason-sobel/ryder-cup-blame-game-12-myths-you-need-to-know/ to Jason Sobel's article that covers all of the silly topics we've been discussing for the last 2 days.

The truth about the Mickelson "demands" is Myth #1.

“Keegan and I knew going in that we were not playing in the afternoon, and we said on the first tee, ‘We are going to put everything we have into this one match, because we are not playing the afternoon,’” Mickelson said Sunday night. “When we got to 10, I went to Davis and I said, ‘Listen, you're seeing our best. You cannot put us in the afternoon, because we emotionally and mentally are not prepared for it.”

How this gets translated into anything other than 'being a team player' is beyond me.  A lot of you are blasting Phil for this, and a lot of you are blasting DLIII for this too.  My question:  If DLIII ignores Phil's request and puts them back out there and they lose because they are mentally drained, and of course go on to lose Sunday (they lost anyway, neither of them is going to play better if they are more exhausted, right?), then how quickly are you throwing Love under the bus for NOT listening to his player?  (It's a rhetorical question - I already know the answer)

This whole thing is a big joke.  The US team played a great Ryder Cup.  The European team played a teensy tiny itty bitty bit better Ryder Cup.  Congrats Europe and to all of the players and coaches on both teams ... well fought, well done, the end.

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/live-from-2012-sunday-feature-4/ Here's the link again.

Re: Sobel article, what a bunch of excrement. Blogs can get classless, but journalist writing articles like that is just insane.

I will be writing a somewhat different column and I'll be sure to bring up the GC coverage. Action... Reaction.

Cracking my knuckles, fresh pot of Coffee and getting excited to come back at you Sobel.

Boycotting Golf Channel.....

[Johnhw2]

This bashing and rehashing the event is good for venting but doesnt help with changes we need to make going forward. I believe our approach is to selecting a captain and making certain he is ready for the job is out dated and ight have made sense when this was an exhibition not the huge sporting event is has become. See my thoughts on post 729 for a few ideas....any one else?...Bueler? Bueler?

[Dave H]

I haven't heard Keegan state he was too tired, Phil made the call for both of them based on what he said at the press conference.  If they played and won, it would be 11-5 and maybe that changes the dynamics going into Sunday.  We can't rewind and see how it plays out so in that sense the whole discussion is moot.  The point I and most people that are critical of DL3 (including most golf analysts) is that DL3 should have sat Tiger / Stricker and if Phil couldn't go at least team Keegan up with someone.  The analysts believe it's because DL3 is still on the PGA Tour and that he didn't want to ruffle Phil's feathers but that a guy not on Tour might have told Phil to go out there or at least thrown Keegan out there in the afternoon.

There's no guarantee that it would have been 11 - 5. I found it questionable at the time that PM and KB sat but I also went to bed thinking we had the cup practically sewn up. The reality is that we got our butts kicked on Sunday. If we had shown up to play on Sunday, DL3 would have no detractors.

[WWBDD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joakim

I will be writing a somewhat different column and I'll be sure to bring up the GC coverage. Action... Reaction.

Cracking my knuckles, fresh pot of Coffee and getting excited to come back at you Sobel.

I think I smell a Pulitzer here.

Quote:

Boycotting Golf Channel.....

Good luck with that.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by Joakim

Phil admits it on TV, click http://www.golfchannel.com/media/live-from-2012-sunday-feature-4/ Check mate.

Originally Posted by Joakim

Phil admits it on TV, click http://www.golfchannel.com/media/live-from-2012-sunday-feature-4/ Check mate.

I had not seen that but for damn sure that doesn't make me think any less of Phil or Davis. As I've said 2X already none of this matters. It's worthless patter in the big picture. Sunday is what counts.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by jimdandy

Oh please. Thats your job when selected Captain, leader of team USA. You make tough decisions. Phil made that decision, and in the press conference Davis kinda threw Phil under the bus about it...."yes, i could have done things differently etc." Thats when Phil, rudely, interrupted Davis. Watch the video.......

You don't let a player tell you what to do when you're Captain. They played ELEVEN HOLES Saturday AM!! They had time to eat lunch, sleep, play ping-pong, sleep some more, have a snack, Xbox, then one last power nap - before teeing off.

DL3, doesn't have the personality to lead a Ryder Cup team. I would lay odds that he isn't even a thought for Scotland.

You are just full of it. It was already planned that Phil and Keegan were not going to play in the afternoon.

[clubchamp]

What's funny is a lot of people keep bashing Phil and now some claim there could be a rift between DL3 and Phil. I pose this question... Did it ever occur to any of you that DL3 said multiple times he intended to sit everyone once so when the question was asked Phil stepped in to take some of the heat off of DL3? There is no way Phil and Keegan wouldn't have played if DL3 told them to play and especially Keegan being rookie at the ryder cup wouldn't have turned it down. Plus the team is supposed to be made up of some of the best players in the world so why would DL3 think whoever he was putting out there couldn't win. On top of all the fake controversy that's started it still doesn't change the fact the europeans out played the U.S. in the singles matches.

[joekelly]

Jose Olazabal says he is finished with the Ryder Cup, will not again be Captain.  As yet no such word from Davis Love 3.  So who will take DL3's place in 2 yrs?  I'd like to see Cap'n Tiger.