Anchored Putter Method Poll of TST Membership

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Quote:

Originally Posted by meenman

I wouldnt exactly call this forum representative of the general golfing public.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Why do you say that?

The people who participate here are a much more passionate group of golfers than the playing population as a whole.

[Golfingdad]

I watched a show on TGC last night with Michael Breed and Thomas Pagen (I hope I got that right) from the USGA discussing the proposed rule change.  Mostly it was just somebody writing in an email " I putt such and such way, is it going to be legal?" but they touched on a couple of things that interested me in regards to how people will move forward.

1.  They mentioned Matt Kuchar, and I said in one of these threads several months back that I think a lot of people will gravitate that direction.

2.  Breed seems to think that a lot of people will try and start putting side saddle with a broom handle putter.  (With the left arm parallel to the ground at shoulder level and at a right angle across the body)  Not sure about that one.

3.  Lastly, I wonder if people will try and "bend" the rules this way:  It is going to be illegal to hold your forearm against your body with the end of the club in your hand allowing you to create an anchor point at the end of the club. But they explained that it is NOT going to be illegal if you were to slide that left arm in front of your body such that the elbow is stuck against you, but not the forearm, still creating that fulcrum point in your left hand.

Anyway, I will be intrigued to see what different styles former anchorers try and ultimately end up gravitating towards in the coming years.  (My money is still on Kuchar style becoming the most popular!)

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I watched a show on TGC last night with Michael Breed and Thomas Pagen (I hope I got that right) from the USGA discussing the proposed rule change.  Mostly it was just somebody writing in an email "I putt such and such way, is it going to be legal?" but they touched on a couple of things that interested me in regards to how people will move forward.

1.  They mentioned Matt Kuchar, and I said in one of these threads several months back that I think a lot of people will gravitate that direction.

2.  Breed seems to think that a lot of people will try and start putting side saddle with a broom handle putter.  (With the left arm parallel to the ground at shoulder level and at a right angle across the body)  Not sure about that one.

3.  Lastly, I wonder if people will try and "bend" the rules this way:  It is going to be illegal to hold your forearm against your body with the end of the club in your hand allowing you to create an anchor point at the end of the club. But they explained that it is NOT going to be illegal if you were to slide that left arm in front of your body such that the elbow is stuck against you, but not the forearm, still creating that fulcrum point in your left hand.

Anyway, I will be intrigued to see what different styles former anchorers try and ultimately end up gravitating towards in the coming years.  (My money is still on Kuchar style becoming the most popular!)

I think that many of those weird methods are just being brought up out of sheer cussedness.  It has as much to do with defying authority as it does with making a reasonable attempt at devising a useful putting stroke.  If they spent as much time just working on the fundamentals of a normal stroke as they do trying to come up with ways to circumvent the rule, they wouldn't need to worry about it.

I'm an unathletic, taller than average, overweight senior golfer with a bad back, yet somehow I can make a normal putting stroke and do fairly well with it.  I find these frantic attempts at reinventing the putting stroke such as you describe as actually rather comical.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I think that many of those weird methods are just being brought up out of sheer cussedness.  It has as much to do with defying authority as it does with making a reasonable attempt at devising a useful putting stroke.  If they spent as much time just working on the fundamentals of a normal stroke as they do trying to come up with ways to circumvent the rule, they wouldn't need to worry about it.

I'm an unathletic, taller than average, overweight senior golfer with a bad back, yet somehow I can make a normal putting stroke and do fairly well with it.  I find these frantic attempts at reinventing the putting stroke such as you describe as actually rather comical.

Yeah, you are probably right.  Oh, and thanks for helping me learn a new word today!  (I had to look up "cussedness" in the dictionary)

I am with you on your second point.  I wouldn't refer to myself as unathletic or senior (yet) but I'm getting there in both respects.  But I have a bad back, am tall, and overweight, and have never had any problems with a normal putting stroke.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

3.  Lastly, I wonder if people will try and "bend" the rules this way:  It is going to be illegal to hold your forearm against your body with the end of the club in your hand allowing you to create an anchor point at the end of the club. But they explained that it is NOT going to be illegal if you were to slide that left arm in front of your body such that the elbow is stuck against you, but not the forearm, still creating that fulcrum point in your left hand.

Try that. It feels really freaking awkward. With your elbow anchored it's very odd on the follow-through.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Yeah, you are probably right.  Oh, and thanks for helping me learn a new word today!  (I had to look up "cussedness" in the dictionary)

Glad I could help further your education.

[MJK3122]

I just recently went to a belly putter. I usually read greens pretty well but with my other putters (conventional) I had a problem blocking shorter putts (under 5 feet). I practiced a lot to fix it but decided to try the belly option. It has helped but I practice quite a bit with it. Only down fall to the belly for me is judging pace on longer putts.

[onesome]

Originally Posted by MJK3122

I just recently went to a belly putter. I usually read greens pretty well but with my other putters (conventional) I had a problem blocking shorter putts (under 5 feet). I practiced a lot to fix it but decided to try the belly option. It has helped but I practice quite a bit with it. Only down fall to the belly for me is judging pace on longer putts.

Longer putts seem to be one of the downsides to these tall/anchored and belly putters.I recently purchased a belly putter also but I don't anchor it, I have been experimenting with a left elbow pointing towards the target type of technique that seems to get putts on line better than my standard 35" putter. Anyways I'll see how it goes this next season and add up the stats and see wich way I may wind up going.

[Truegolf]

I use a long putter in competition I admit I have the yips and this had help it a lot I really don't like this ruling and will likely quit playing tournament after 2016

[WUTiger]

First, I appreciate turtleback's note on Vardon overcoming TB. Vardon must have been a hearty man to survive it.

Now, back to question at hand...

Originally Posted by turtleback

... How far do you think golf should go to accommodate physical deterioration?  Should players who have gotten a restricted shoulder turn due to aging be allowed to use golf balls that exceed to regular limits?  Or longer drivers?

Action has already been taken. It's called senior, or gold, tees. These tees are between the standard member's tees and the women's tees. One thing the senior tees do is give a break on holes that require forced carries over wilderness or water hazards.

Originally Posted by Fourputt

This is the question I always ask.  Why is it the job of the Guardians of the Rules to accommodate physical disability? ...

... However, if a player wants to keep an official handicap and compete in an organized association, then he has to commit to playing by the actual Rules of Golf as maintained by the USGA and the R&A.;

In modern society, we work to include the disabled in activities which they can handle. It's the job of the Guardians of the Rules to make provisions for unusual situations. That's what guardians do.

Now, not everyone will agree with the first pass at rules for golfers or other athletes with disabilities. Look at the Casey Martin situation on the PGA Tour about him being allowed to ride a cart due to an ailment. In marathon running, some question whether amputees get an extra boost with curved blade leg prosthetics that runners fortunate enough to have their original legs don't get.

It's the question of how to balance access to sports without creating unfair advantages for the disabled.

With the talk of anchored putting, the yips, and keeping people in the game, I think we need to expand the reach of Conditions of Competition.

We already have Black, Blue, White, Gold and Red (and sometimes Orange) tee boxes for golfers of different abilities. Why not allow anchored putters for everyday golfers and second-tier amateur tournaments. Or, why not just allow anchored putters for everyone?

My fear is that the Guardians will come up with more bone-headed rules, and we will end up with a break-away North American Golf Network or something similar which competes with the USGA and R&A; for members.

[WWBDD]

Originally Posted by WUTiger

We already have Black, Blue, White, Gold and Red (and sometimes Orange) tee boxes for golfers of different abilities. Why not allow anchored putters for everyday golfers and second-tier amateur tournaments. Or, why not just allow anchored putters for everyone?

When I play with my FiL at his club, it's gold all the way ... the old timers and me within spitting distance of the lady's tees. It provides me the illusion of bombing my drives.

However, I've never seen an amateur play with a long putter, anchored or not. There simply aren't that many out there.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by WUTiger

First, I appreciate turtleback's note on Vardon overcoming TB. Vardon must have been a hearty man to survive it.

Now, back to question at hand...

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

... How far do you think golf should go to accommodate physical deterioration?  Should players who have gotten a restricted shoulder turn due to aging be allowed to use golf balls that exceed to regular limits?  Or longer drivers?

Action has already been taken. It's called senior, or gold, tees. These tees are between the standard member's tees and the women's tees. One thing the senior tees do is give a break on holes that require forced carries over wilderness or water hazards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

This is the question I always ask.  Why is it the job of the Guardians of the Rules to accommodate physical disability? ...

... However, if a player wants to keep an official handicap and compete in an organized association, then he has to commit to playing by the actual Rules of Golf as maintained by the USGA and the R&A.;

In modern society, we work to include the disabled in activities which they can handle. It's the job of the Guardians of the Rules to make provisions for unusual situations. That's what guardians do.

Now, not everyone will agree with the first pass at rules for golfers or other athletes with disabilities. Look at the Casey Martin situation on the PGA Tour about him being allowed to ride a cart due to an ailment. In marathon running, some question whether amputees get an extra boost with curved blade leg prosthetics that runners fortunate enough to have their original legs don't get.

It's the question of how to balance access to sports without creating unfair advantages for the disabled.

With the talk of anchored putting, the yips, and keeping people in the game, I think we need to expand the reach of Conditions of Competition.

We already have Black, Blue, White, Gold and Red (and sometimes Orange) tee boxes for golfers of different abilities. Why not allow anchored putters for everyday golfers and second-tier amateur tournaments. Or, why not just allow anchored putters for everyone?

My fear is that the Guardians will come up with more bone-headed rules, and we will end up with a break-away North American Golf Network or something similar which competes with the USGA and R&A; for members.

Tee boxes are not rules issues, club design is.  There has always been a variable factor in what constitutes a "stipulated round".  That can vary a great deal from course to course as well as from tee to tee.  There is no inconsistency in having graduated sets of teeing grounds.  There IS a rules inconsistency in changing the club design rule for different levels of play.  There has been every bit as much controversy in the past for other rules changes and it didn't spawn any bastards, I don't see it happening now.

This isn't an issue for disabled as it's considered in the American's with Disabilities Act.  The yips is not a disability.  Anyone who can make a full swing can make a normal putting stroke.  Casey Martin's issue was the physical ability to walk the course.  While I disagree with the court ruling (an entity which is in the business of an activity or sport requiring a certain amount of physical endurance should be allowed to set its own rules for participation), there was at least a modicum of logic behind it.

[CanuckAaron]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Tee boxes are not rules issues, club design is.  There has always been a variable factor in what constitutes a "stipulated round".  That can vary a great deal from course to course as well as from tee to tee.  There is no inconsistency in having graduated sets of teeing grounds.  There IS a rules inconsistency in changing the club design rule for different levels of play.  There has been every bit as much controversy in the past for other rules changes and it didn't spawn any bastards, I don't see it happening now.

This isn't an issue for disabled as it's considered in the American's with Disabilities Act.  The yips is not a disability.  Anyone who can make a full swing can make a normal putting stroke.  Casey Martin's issue was the physical ability to walk the course.  While I disagree with the court ruling (an entity which is in the business of an activity or sport requiring a certain amount of physical endurance should be allowed to set its own rules for participation), there was at least a modicum of logic behind it.

Well said. It should also be noted that while some people with disabilities use long putters, the banning of anchoring is not a ban of long putters, just how they are used when anchored to the body.

I really did not understand Fred Couples and other Champions Tour members discussing their back issues and the effect of the ban since they could still use the long putters and thus not have to bend over, they just cannot anchor it to their body while making the stroke

[boil3rmak3r]

I've read this entire thread and am surprised that no one has asked why it has taken the "guardians" so long to make this change. I find it laughable to argue that they are trying to preserve the fundamentals of the game. If that were the case, we should have seen a rules change decades ago. To me, the USGA sent the following message, "Do whatever you want within the rules. If you are unsuccessful with it, we won't care a lick. If, however, it becomes something you and others can excel with, then, and only then, will we consider whether it's within the spirit of the game." I can see it now... Hoards of people will go to the Kuchar method and have great success. Eventually 3 out of 4 major winners will be using this style. The USGA will then modify this rule even further and say that the butt end of the club can only touch the hands. The guy on the last Big Break, who chipped like a hockey player hitting a slap shot comes to mind. If 1 person were to become a successful PGA tour player using that stroke, no problem. If, however, 10% of the PGA tour guys switched to it an tore it up, it would all of a sudden be considered a stroke that doesn't support the spirit of the game. The USGA would change the rules to say that both hands must be touching each other for every shot.

[boogielicious]

There has been a lot of criticism in the press from players and former players for how long it took the USGA to make this decision.  I agree that they dropped the ball on it.  They should have made it the first year that anchoring became a style of putting and no one would have had issue.

[Rulesman]

A right decision is always a right decision however long it takes to make.

[meenman]

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

I've read this entire thread and am surprised that no one has asked why it has taken the "guardians" so long to make this change. I find it laughable to argue that they are trying to preserve the fundamentals of the game. If that were the case, we should have seen a rules change decades ago.

To me, the USGA sent the following message, "Do whatever you want within the rules. If you are unsuccessful with it, we won't care a lick. If, however, it becomes something you and others can excel with, then, and only then, will we consider whether it's within the spirit of the game."

I can see it now... Hoards of people will go to the Kuchar method and have great success. Eventually 3 out of 4 major winners will be using this style. The USGA will then modify this rule even further and say that the butt end of the club can only touch the hands.

The guy on the last Big Break, who chipped like a hockey player hitting a slap shot comes to mind. If 1 person were to become a successful PGA tour player using that stroke, no problem. If, however, 10% of the PGA tour guys switched to it an tore it up, it would all of a sudden be considered a stroke that doesn't support the spirit of the game. The USGA would change the rules to say that both hands must be touching each other for every shot.

the debates were in another thread and those of us that dont agree with the decison wouldnt question why it took so long.

All we can do is withhold our USGA membership fees (and i am pretty sure the USGA isnt sweating losing my $35)

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

I've read this entire thread and am surprised that no one has asked why it has taken the "guardians" so long to make this change. I find it laughable to argue that they are trying to preserve the fundamentals of the game. If that were the case, we should have seen a rules change decades ago.

To me, the USGA sent the following message, "Do whatever you want within the rules. If you are unsuccessful with it, we won't care a lick. If, however, it becomes something you and others can excel with, then, and only then, will we consider whether it's within the spirit of the game."

I can see it now... Hoards of people will go to the Kuchar method and have great success. Eventually 3 out of 4 major winners will be using this style. The USGA will then modify this rule even further and say that the butt end of the club can only touch the hands.

The guy on the last Big Break, who chipped like a hockey player hitting a slap shot comes to mind. If 1 person were to become a successful PGA tour player using that stroke, no problem. If, however, 10% of the PGA tour guys switched to it an tore it up, it would all of a sudden be considered a stroke that doesn't support the spirit of the game. The USGA would change the rules to say that both hands must be touching each other for every shot.

That is because this thread is supposed to be a poll, not a discussion.  The discussion took place in another thread and that point was addressed.

Originally Posted by meenman

the debates were in another thread and those of us that dont agree with the decison wouldnt question why it took so long.

All we can do is withhold our USGA membership fees (and i am pretty sure the USGA isnt sweating losing my $35)

Don't worry about it.  I had dropped my USGA membership a few years ago, but to help them overcome those who are dropping their membership in protest of this ruling I am rejoining.  So they will have MY $35 to replace YOURS.  LOL