Weight Forward - Using SwingCatalyst and SAM Balance Lab to Explain Pressure Throughout the Swing

[cipher]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

If my memory serves ... they teased the segment prior to a commercial break, and this was the first segment coming back from the break, and I don't think they had been playing with all of the gadgets prior to the commercial.

FWIW, I didn't pay any attention to them, and didn't really even see it as insulting or anything while watching it.  Not until Stretch pointed it out today. :)

(What it's "worth" is probably simply more proof that I'm a dufus. :))

I am with you.  I must be a stupid a$$ monkey then, because I just thought they were being silly about gadgets and gizmos.  I did not think anything of it.  I probably also did not care either so that could have something to do it.  Sometimes my apathetic side comes in handy.

All this being said it is nice that this research is getting some play on the GC.

[RBA21]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Well said James.  Yes we are making a centered pivot but adding pressure right, again because the knee is decreasing in flex.

Yep like many of you guys have probably heard us talk about feeling like you're adding pressure towards the toes of your left (lead) foot on the downswing.  I'll use the visual of squishing a bug under the front part of the left foot  These traces can be very insightful, just more good info to help golfers play better.

Guys this technology awesome! Just trying to understand here but these are my thoughts.

I'm having a hard time understanding how decreasing flex in the rear knee on the backswing leads to pressure under the rear foot. To me this pressure would be achieved by moving the pelvis (while opening the hips) towards the rear leg 2-3 inches. The rear knee decreasing in flex would just help to keep the upper axis centered and add a little rotation, not pressure.

On the downswing I could definitely see where an increase in knee flex of the lead leg (along with moving the pelvis 4-6 in back toward the target) could add pressure under the left foot.

To sum it up, if there was zero hip slide/weight shift/pelvis shift, etc. and the swing was pure rotation,  the only way I see to increase pressures is to increase knee flex, not decrease it.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by RBA21

Guys this technology awesome! Just trying to understand here but these are my thoughts.

I'm having a hard time understanding how decreasing flex in the rear knee on the backswing leads to pressure under the rear foot.

1. Get a tetanus shot. Wait a week or two.
2. Find a wall with nails sticking out of it.
3. Put the palm of your hand against one of the nails with a bent elbow.
4. Straighten the elbow rapidly.
5. Visit the ER for some stitches, and when they ask how you punctured your hand, tell them you were just confirming some basic physics to help your golf game.

If you crouch on a scale and remain still, it might say you weigh 150 pounds. Now jump as high as you can - by extending your knee and hip joints - and the scale might read 300 pounds. You've increased pressure/force by "pushing" against the ground the same way you "push" against the nail.

Originally Posted by RBA21

On the downswing I could definitely see where an increase in knee flex of the lead leg (along with moving the pelvis 4-6 in back toward the target) could add pressure under the left foot.

To sum it up, if there was zero hip slide/weight shift/pelvis shift, etc. and the swing was pure rotation,  the only way I see to increase pressures is to increase knee flex, not decrease it.

A) The front knee doesn't often increase in flex in the downswing. It often maintains the same flex to A5.5 or A6 as the hips slide forward, then it too decreases flex (extends) which spikes the pressure/force beneath the knee. The pressure/force/"weight" going forward in the downswing is a combination of both of these: the hips sliding forward, and the extension of the front knee which - just as with the trail knee on the backswing - increases the pressure/force/"weight" beneath that foot.

B) You've got the last paragraph backwards. Extension adds pressure/force, flexing removes pressure/force.

You may be confusing feels with reality. Pressure or forces are in your feet - you're likely feeling your quads or hamstrings.

[RBA21]

[LIST=1] [*] Get a tetanus shot. Wait a week or two. [*] Find a wall with nails sticking out of it. [*] Put the palm of your hand against one of the nails with a bent elbow. [*] Straighten the elbow rapidly. [*] Visit the ER for some stitches, and when they ask how you punctured your hand, tell them you were just confirming some basic physics to help your golf game. :-D [/LIST] If you crouch on a scale and remain still, it might say you weigh 150 pounds. Now jump as high as you can - by extending your knee and hip joints - and the scale might read 300 pounds. You've increased pressure/force by "pushing" against the ground the same way you "push" against the nail. A) The front knee doesn't often increase in flex in the downswing. It often maintains the same flex to A5.5 or A6 as the hips slide forward, then it too decreases flex (extends) which spikes the pressure/force beneath the knee. The pressure/force/"weight" going forward in the downswing is a combination of both of these: the hips sliding forward, and the extension of the front knee which - just as with the trail knee on the backswing - increases the pressure/force/"weight" beneath that foot. B) You've got the last paragraph backwards. Extension adds pressure/force, flexing removes pressure/force. You may be confusing feels with reality. Pressure or forces are in your feet - you're likely feeling your quads or hamstrings.

Well that pretty much sums it up. Skipping physics class was not such a good idea after all. Thanks for post iacas. I'm going to shut up now.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by RBA21

I'm going to shut up now.

• 1

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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[mvmac]

Originally Posted by iacas

Get a tetanus shot. Wait a week or two.

Find a wall with nails sticking out of it.

Put the palm of your hand against one of the nails with a bent elbow.

Straighten the elbow rapidly.

Visit the ER for some stitches, and when they ask how you punctured your hand, tell them you were just confirming some basic physics to help your golf game.

This is awesome.  Going to film this drill today

Originally Posted by iacas

Explaining things helps Mike, myself, and others, and if we can't explain something or we're wrong, we can all learn things.

Exactly, being able to explain things and come up with examples like Erik did above only makes us better.

[RBA21]

No need for that (though I'm glad you took that in the humorous way in which I typed it). Keep contributing. Ask questions. Explaining things helps Mike, myself, and others, and if we can't explain something or we're wrong, we can all learn things.

No ego or pride here, I just want to learn! I do have a question about your nail analogy though. If I put the palm of my right hand on the nail, then turn my right shoulder back, is this not decreasing the flex of my right elbow without adding pressure towards the nail?

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Get a tetanus shot. Wait a week or two.

Find a wall with nails sticking out of it.

Put the palm of your hand against one of the nails with a bent elbow.

Straighten the elbow rapidly.

Visit the ER for some stitches, and when they ask how you punctured your hand, tell them you were just confirming some basic physics to help your golf game.

This is awesome.  Going to film this drill today

It can be like a 5SK video meets Jackass stunt.

"Uh yea, hi, I'm Erik Barzeski, and this is nail-puncture...golf swing... drill"

[iacas]

Originally Posted by RBA21

I do have a question about your nail analogy though. If I put the palm of my right hand on the nail, then turn my right shoulder back, is this not decreasing the flex of my right elbow without adding pressure towards the nail?

Yes, but add in some sort of horizontal "gravity" (like a burly dude standing behind you applying steady pressure to your entire body, or for this purpose, to your right shoulder) and it should make sense again. And if this still doesn't make sense to you, see the bits about jumping on a bathroom scale.

Additionally, the trail hip goes UP in the backswing BECAUSE the ground is rigid. It goes up because we apply force down, and the ground doesn't move, so our hip raises (that's why it's easier to jump high from concrete than sand). To raise the hip, we push against the ground - the same way you suddenly "weigh" more when you jump than you do when you're squatting on the scale.

[14ledo81]

Originally Posted by iacas

No need for that (though I'm glad you took that in the humorous way in which I typed it). Keep contributing. Ask questions.

Explaining things helps Mike, myself, and others, and if we can't explain something or we're wrong, we can all learn things.

I feel this has been the (main) focus of this site since I joined.  Definitely what attracted me to the site, and keeps me interested.

On a side note, for myself, the more I have learned about the golf swing, the more I realize I do not know.

[impactswing]

What part of front foot pressure are pros showing now in research to START downswing? Is it heel or outside front foot? Since pros usually dip head on backswing and dip again on downswing it seems the heel area is absorbing most of the pressure which then causes the 2nd dip in pros swings. Amateurs pressure goes to front ball which leads to the amateur head rise in downswing. Does your data yet show where pros hit on front on downswing?

[iacas]

Does your data yet show where pros hit on front on downswing?

Yes.

The downswing pressure in a professional tends to work from the mid-trail foot, towards the toes of the lead foot slightly during the downswing, and then slightly heel side of mid-foot at the finish.

There's been no real pattern in amateurs - we see some who go immediately to their heel, and others who go immediately and too far to their toes. If there is one commonality among poorer players it's that the weight never really gets forward enough, period.

Also, I don't think heel/toe relationships have much to do with the head rising or falling. We haven't seen a strong correlation at all (I won't say any correlation, but if it's there, it's incredibly weak) between the pressure going to the heel or toe of the front foot and what their heads are doing.

P.S. Get an avatar and add some details to your profile when you get a chance. Then put your name in your signature. Thanks.

[impactswing]

Yes. The downswing pressure in a professional tends to work from the mid-trail foot, towards the toes of the lead foot slightly during the downswing, and then slightly heel side of mid-foot at the finish. There's been no real pattern in amateurs - we see some who go immediately to their heel, and others who go immediately and too far to their toes. If there is one commonality among poorer players it's that the weight never really gets forward enough, period. Also, I don't think heel/toe relationships have much to do with the head rising or falling. We haven't seen a strong correlation at all (I won't say any correlation, but if it's there, it's incredibly weak) between the pressure going to the heel or toe of the front foot and what their heads are doing. P.S. Get an avatar and add some details to your profile when you get a chance. Then put your name in your signature. Thanks.

Snead would play barefoot if he got out of synch, his logic was that forced his toes into air or else they would break. So toe weight at impact on front foot has to be wrong IMO. The Snead squat and head dip was due to weight moving to back front heel. I know some pros are starting to use pressure plate technology and I heard it found downward force in pros is huge, not sure if thats the proper terminology, but its how the downward force of pros add weight to their mass as it was explained to me. Its like pros can use gravitational forces in their swing to create more energy. Thanks for reply tho.

[mvmac]

Snead would play barefoot if he got out of synch, his logic was that forced his toes into air or else they would break. So toe weight at impact on front foot has to be wrong IMO. The Snead squat and head dip was due to weight moving to back front heel. I know some pros are starting to use pressure plate technology and I heard it found downward force in pros is huge, not sure if thats the proper terminology, but its how the downward force of pros add weight to their mass as it was explained to me. Its like pros can use gravitational forces in their swing to create more energy.

Thanks for reply tho.

Did you watch the video posted in the first post of the thread? Would recommend doing so.

[freedrop]

Very interesting stuff,one thing that I don't see mentioned ,and I may have missed it,is where the weight/pressure is on the back foot when at the top of the swing.Is the weight on the inside or outside of the back foot.Getting the weight/pressure to the right side is one thing but I think it has to be centered  on the inside/instep of the back foot.

[billchao]

Very interesting stuff,one thing that I don't see mentioned ,and I may have missed it,is where the weight/pressure is on the back foot when at the top of the swing.Is the weight on the inside or outside of the back foot.Getting the weight/pressure to the right side is one thing but I think it has to be centered  on the inside/instep of the back foot.

Watch the video. The answer is there.

[freedrop]

Watch the video. The answer is there.

thanks billchao....at what min&sec; mark?

[billchao]

thanks billchao....at what min&sec; mark?

I don't know off the top of my head. I'm going to eat breakfast with my family now, so by the time I go back and find it, you could have found it already yourself. Teach a man to fish, and all ;-)