Getting my weight forward.......WHY

[stoverny]

When an issue goes 7 pages regarding an aspect of the swing, it's a problem with golfers. Some say your weight responds to the arms, Others says it is a move you actively make. It seems that whatever way you think about it, it's a move that must be made (either "passively" (as a response to another action) or actively).

I would agree with that, I think the issue is with the overemphasis on "weight forward", and how that instruction leads to problems for many golfers. When I start my swing the weight is over the back foot. When I finish it is over the front foot. However at impact my feel is that I am still over the back foot. In reality it may be more like 50/50 but the contact and distance are good. I don't need to be forward at impact, and not thinking about being forward simplifies the swing. For me at least. Perhaps it might not be the "best" way but my point was that it works. Many here are stating that it ia virtually impossible to hit a solid shot without weight forward, or even if you do the ball won't go anywhere. Neither of those things are true. I am still new to the swing and pretty new to golf overall. I am not claiming to be a great golfer. However there are people using this same method who are low-single digit handicaps or even scratch. The lack of weight forward is not an obstacle to good scoring. Again you heard a lot of the same reactions to SnT, people said you couldn't possibly get any power, it's a reverse pivot, etc. Clearly those doubters were wrong and had never actually tried the swing.

[boogielicious]

Logman,

Your swing is very similar to a lot of hockey players I have seen use with some success.  I use hockey more than baseball because the puck is on the ground.  If it works for you, great.  But for the rest of us, it may not work. I played ice hockey and although it can generate power, there is more power in the swings that professional golfers use (apart from Tommy Gainey).

Stoverny,

You continually challenge weight forward as an important key to a good golf swing regardless of all the evidence that virtually every professional golfer, past and present, displays this key in there swing.  If it works for you fine.  But again, we've seen the 1000s of videos of current and past professional golfers.  It is obvious.

I don't want to be just a 10 handicap.  I want to be better.  And the only way to get better is to work on the keys to better and more consistent ball striking and short game that the best player display.  When I didn't know about these keys, I was an 18 handicap.  Working on them the last two years I have come down to a 10.  Weight forward at impact was the big key to that improvement.

[rehmwa]

Happy Gilmore had significant weight forward.

He hit it something like 450 yds and straight

I'm just sayin'

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

Did you have a look at the wrist brace /non wrist brace video? There's no lead wrist break, is there. I don't know what else to do or say here.

This thread is not about your wrists. Final notice.

Originally Posted by stoverny

In terms of shifting weight forward, I think its role in power production is overestimated.

It's not a large percentage but it's there. For it to be "overestimated" you'd have to know what our estimates are AND what reality is.

The far, FAR bigger reason for getting your weight forward deals with the geometry of the golf club, controlling low point, etc. I've never said any differently.

Originally Posted by stoverny

Using another baseball analogy... imagine a 3rd baseman running in to field a bunt down the 3rd-base line.  He picks it up barehanded and throws underhanded across his body to first while he is falling towards the 3rd-base line.  Obviously he cannot get quite as much power behind his throw as when stepping into it, however he can still get a surprising amount of power on it even if he is falling away from 1st base as he throws.  He uses his arm and wrist levers to "snap" the throw and generate power.  Contrast that with the image of a baseball player who is standing upright and steps into the throw normally, but imagine he does not use any levers in his arm while throwing... his elbow and wrist never break and the throw is done with a straight arm.  He would get almost no force behind the throw even though he is stepping into it with his weight.  The bullwhip-type force of the arm levers provides much more of the power than the weight shift does.

Bad example. The baseball player throws the ball half as fast when he's falling away as when he can really step into it, and their "weight forward" is vastly different than the weight forward in golf - both in purpose (theirs is a lot more about power and speed) and how it's accomplished (hips forward in golf, upper body forward in baseball).

Multi-sport comparisons typically fail. Bad example. In many ways worse than using a machine (Iron Byron) as you did before.

Originally Posted by logman

To be clear, I'm not arguing against weight shift, I'm arguing against it as a non negociable in the swing. I'm just not convinced that it's the important element that most guys on here seem to.

It is, and I've told you why now several times, and per your typical approach, you simply ignore it and continue to believe steadfastly in what you think without actually being able to articulate any valid or logical reasons why.

Originally Posted by logman

I don't want to" fall out of the shot", But I know that if I can be anywhere from 50/50 to 70/30 then "weight forward" doesn't get in the way of my swing. I also know that if I go way forward in my transfer then that introduces a whole new can of worms and there all bad.

Then keep moving the ball back like you do. Keep hitting low shots that aren't at all like what good players hit. Have fun.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Point 1:  Erik said you can't hit it out of your own shadow if you don't use your wrists at all.  (Not really Erik, but moreso physics that says that, but whatever)

Point 2: You can hit the ball 250 meters.

Your conclusion:  Erik (and physics) is wrong.

Reasonable persons conclusion:  You USE your flippin' wrists in your swing!*

* Or a substitute lever, but again, no further posts about anyone's wrists are allowed in this thread. They're...

Originally Posted by stoverny

When I start my swing the weight is over the back foot. When I finish it is over the front foot. However at impact my feel is that I am still over the back foot. In reality it may be more like 50/50 but the contact and distance are good. I don't need to be forward at impact, and not thinking about being forward simplifies the swing. For me at least.

Oh for ****'s sake we're arguing about your ****ing FEEL now? You lose your place in this discussion when you bring THAT to the table. And "in reality" it's likely NOWHERE NEAR 50/50. I think you'd be surprised, but at this point, I'm no longer interested in what you have to say based on your "feels" during YOUR swing. We have data. You have "feels."

Originally Posted by stoverny

Perhaps it might not be the "best" way but my point was that it works. Many here are stating that it ia virtually impossible to hit a solid shot without weight forward, or even if you do the ball won't go anywhere. Neither of those things are true.

You don't get to say what's true or not when you're basing what you say on your FEEL.

Originally Posted by stoverny

Again you heard a lot of the same reactions to SnT, people said you couldn't possibly get any power, it's a reverse pivot, etc. Clearly those doubters were wrong and had never actually tried the swing.

And it turns out that S&T; was wrong that there isn't a weight transfer (pressure transfer) in the swing.

[jclark]

To benefit the most you really need an objective approach, listen to fact and look at what research shows. You might FEEL that we are being subjective towards your swing but we are actually being objective and knowing research and facts about the swing and understand your model is not the best model.

[stoverny]

Look i mentioned feel because i have never videotaped my swing and it is possible that I am not doing the Heard swing exactly the way he prescribes in his book and video. I think I am, but I allow that I might be doing it wrong. However in his book Heard states explicitly that the weight remains back until AFTER contact. And the photos in the book and the video footage backs it up. I am trying to copy his swing as best I can. Don't really understand your anger towards any of this. Pretty uncalled for actually, I've been polite throughout. There are effective swings that don't emphasize weight forward, that has been my one and only real point in chiming in on this thread in the first place.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by stoverny

However in his book Heard states explicitly that the weight remains back until AFTER contact. And the photos in the book and the video footage backs it up. I am trying to copy his swing as best I can.

I haven't seen any video of this swing, and if his weight is truly back it's not a swing used by anyone on the PGA Tour.

Originally Posted by stoverny

Don't really understand your anger towards any of this. Pretty uncalled for actually, I've been polite throughout. There are effective swings that don't emphasize weight forward, that has been my one and only real point in chiming in on this thread in the first place.

Who are you even talking to? Nobody's displaying any "anger" so far as I can tell.

I've yet to see an effective swing that doesn't feature "weight forward" at impact.

[stoverny]

Quote:

Who are you even talking to? Nobody's displaying any "anger" so far as I can tell.

Quote:

Oh for ****'s sake we're arguing about your ****ing FEEL now?

I don't know, maybe anger is the wrong word?  How about "needlessly profane and combative"?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by stoverny

I don't know, maybe anger is the wrong word?  How about "needlessly profane and combative"?

Well, then we'd disagree on both profane and needlessly combative.

1) Asterisks are not profane. :)

2) It's not needlessly combative because there's a BIG need to shut down the "my feel is valid data" line of thinking. It's not. It's pointless, and it was appropriate to shut down that line of thinking and discussion quickly. In discussions like this, come with data, not feels .

P.S. As you can imagine, quoting is a handy way of making it clear to whom you're talking.

[Shortylook]

Hi Erik,

I've have just had a lesson last week and my pro said my biggest problem is getting my hips to fire and my weight foward. When I do both of these things, I hit what very closely resembles a good golf shot. When I don't I slice and hook and do all shorts of shitty shots. I just wish I could be more consistent with this as it makes my game a heap better. I guessed practice  is the only way I'm going to make this happen

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Shortylook

Hi Erik,

I've have just had a lesson last week and my pro said my biggest problem is getting my hips to fire and my weight foward. When I do both of these things, I hit what very closely resembles a good golf shot. When I don't I slice and hook and do all shorts of shitty shots. I just wish I could be more consistent with this as it makes my game a heap better. I guessed practice  is the only way I'm going to make this happen

That's funny, the bold part.

Keep it up!

[boogielicious]

Originally Posted by Shortylook

Hi Erik,

I've have just had a lesson last week and my pro said my biggest problem is getting my hips to fire and my weight foward. When I do both of these things, I hit what very closely resembles a good golf shot. When I don't I slice and hook and do all shorts of shitty shots. I just wish I could be more consistent with this as it makes my game a heap better. I guessed practice  is the only way I'm going to make this happen

Keep working on it and it will get better and better.  Look at this thread for some practice tips.  You can work on it without a ball or club too.  Even the Pros rehearse this while they play.  You can sometimes see them do it without a club while someone else is preparing to take a shot.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54840/simple-specific-slow-short-and-success-the-five-s-s-of-great-practice

[Shortylook]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Keep working on it and it will get better and better.  Look at this thread for some practice tips.  You can work on it without a ball or club too.  Even the Pros rehearse this while they play.  You can sometimes see them do it without a club while someone else is preparing to take a shot.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54840/simple-specific-slow-short-and-success-the-five-s-s-of-great-practice

Thanks ill have a look right now. Night shift and nothing to do = golf site trawling and random golf buys. This might keep it down a bit

[soon_tourpro]

Originally Posted by stoverny

However in his book Heard states explicitly that the weight remains back until AFTER contact.

That it does for any tour swing.
Anyone saying things differently dont understand weight shift.

The weight shifts during the swing so before impact the weight is on the trailing side.

past impact the weight has shifted to the left side.

Moving the hips laterally isnt enough.
Tour pro´s also hit it short due to them dont utilize weight shift effectively as they loose accuracy if they do so.

[jclark]

That it does for any tour swing. Anyone saying things differently dont understand weight shift. The weight shifts during the swing so before impact the weight is on the trailing side. past impact the weight has shifted to the left side. Moving the hips laterally isnt enough. Tour pro´s also hit it short due to them dont utilize weight shift effectively as they loose accuracy if they do so.

What?

[Ernest Jones]

I second the "what?" What?

[jamo]

Thirded.

[Golfingdad]

Fourth-ed-ed