2013 Masters Discussion Thread, Update with Tiger's Illegal Drop (Post #343)

[Wallstreet]

You guys are nuts.  He didn't admit to breaking a rule.  He admitted to moving the ball back 2 yards like it was no big deal.  If he intentionally broke a rule to gain an advantage, do you really think he would talk about it so nonchalantly?  Absolutely not.  He was obviously playing under 26-1, keeping the line from the hole to the water...he obviously confused the rule.  He didn't lie and say he was trying to play the ball as close as possible to the original spot.  He signed the correct card according to the rules officials...it wasn't until after the round was over and he had his interview that they "changed their minds" and got the call right.  At the time of card signing he signed the correct card....there is no way he should be DQ'ed with the new rule and no way should he DQ himself.

Scenario:  It's the NCAA championship basketball game.  A player is fouled during a shot attempt with 1 second left and his team is down by one.  NO call is made, game over......should they review it after the game is over and call a foul.......then have him come back on the court, make both free throws and change the winner?

He made a mistake....it wasn't done maliciously and he has been punished greatly for it....More than I feel, personally, given how it all played out.

Please get off your high horses and stop asking for him to "DQ" himself.

And I think a lot of the commentators like Nick Faldo are showing very low class when asking for Tiger's head over this.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by Wallstreet

And I think a lot of the commentators like Nick Faldo are showing very low class when asking for Tiger's head over this.

Many (I guess Faldo included) changed their mind on this after it was announced that Committee had made already a ruling stating there was no ill play. That changed everything regarding the final ruling.

[Wallstreet]

Originally Posted by luu5

Many (I guess Faldo included) changed their mind on this after it was announced that Committee had made already a ruling stating there was no ill play. That changed everything regarding the final ruling.

Yea I just heard Faldo change his mind...that statement was made based on what he said earlier...so I retract that statement.

[tbax6]

Not saying Tiger was trying to gain advantage. He apparently did not remember a fairly basic rule about proper drops. When he realized he signed an incorrect card, he should WD as Feinstein said. As a prominent player said about the Chinese kids penalty, " rules are rules". Oh yeh, that was Tiger

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Vermeer

This article by John Feinstein sums it up.

No article from Feinstein on Tiger is worth reading.

[SauceFresh87]

Sorry if this has already been covered. But this is tigers first sub-par weekend round at a major since 2011 correct? All things aside thats probably a good sign for him for the next couple Majors. Also, whats the largest deficit to win a major in a final round?

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by iacas

Nothing you said addresses the fact that anyone calling in or a spectator or a caddie on another hole or anyone can see something that is FACT, or REALITY, and that we should always strive to attain the most accurate we can, not just letting things slide because of who happened to see it - that's not likely to produce the results closest to reality.

It's a game, but violating the rules is still "theft" or a "crime" against the integrity of the competition.

You're trying to absolutist here in a discussion of opinions, I won't bite on it.  Go ahead and declare a 'win' if that makes you feel all soft and musty.  You can have your opinion.  My main point is it's silly to not have official scorers along.  then you can avoid all of this kind of thing in the first place.

But as for spectators being refs - IMHO - it's idiotic.  Go ahead and try it in the NBA or NFL.  YMMV

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by Wallstreet

Scenario:  It's the NCAA championship basketball game.  A player is fouled during a shot attempt with 1 second left and his team is down by one.  NO call is made, game over......should they review it after the game is over and call a foul.....

ABSOLUTELY - I've changed my mind.  They need to redo the NCAA championships and let Iowa State into round 3.

Nice call.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by 3putter

Nope. That's not cheating, folks. The drop zone was into the grain, and the rule affords him the opportunity to drop it at 2 other spots. He chose one of those spots.

If he chose one of 'those correct' spots, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

He chose a spot that adjust the shot he just hit to gain an advantage............period.

Originally Posted by HOT IRISH

He said he was wrong by saying he dropped the ball 2 yards away to get a better lie, that's 100% wrong no matter who he spoke to afterwards. It's clear cut & he shouldn't be out there. If he wins how is the runner up gonna feel about it?

Agreed.

Regardless of where Tiger finishes this year, people for and against the decision will take issue with it. Those ardent Tiger supporters will say (if Tiger loses) that Tiger was robbed. Those 'haters' (and count those people who think rules are rules so he shouldn't be playing) will put an * beside whatever position he finishes at.

The best possible solution to the situation would be for him to take the high road and Withdraw.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by jshots

Can someone explain to me why rule 20-7 doesn't apply?

And then goes on to say.

I guess the issue is just whether or not the committee brought it up before he signed the score.

I'm not sure if I'm seeing your question out of context, but R20-7 does apply.

He incurs the two stroke penalty under the applicable rule which is R26.  The general penalty under R26 is 2 strokes in stroke play, loss of hole in match play.  The general penalty is breached under R26 when you play from a wrong place or place the ball when you should have dropped.  R20-7c still governs which includes the possibility of a serious breach.

Edit:  He recieved a total of 3 PS, he still got the 1 for hitting his ball in the water.

If a competitor makes a stroke from a wrong place, he incurs a penalty of two strokes under the applicable Rule

[iacas]

Originally Posted by rehmwa

You're trying to absolutist here in a discussion of opinions, I won't bite on it.

No I'm not. I'm sharing my opinion, and the basis for it.

Originally Posted by rehmwa

My main point is it's silly to not have official scorers along.  then you can avoid all of this kind of thing in the first place.

No you can't. What if they miss something? They can't be everywhere. I agree that it would be an improvement (and should happen in all majors), but it wouldn't "avoid" it absolutely.

Originally Posted by rehmwa

But as for spectators being refs - IMHO - it's idiotic.  Go ahead and try it in the NBA or NFL.

Golf ain't the NBA or the NFL. In those sports players TRY to cheat, to get away with things.

[Mulligan Jeff]

Here Here Wallstreet you've got common sense! You have the vision to see CLEAR through all of this. Tournament officials reviewed tape of the drop taken by Tiger (from the call-in) and determined no infraction and in addition chose not to speak with Tiger. Per Tiger's post round interview the rules committee deemed there was concern. Tiger met with rules committee early Saturday morning and was assessed a 2 stroke penalty for violating rule 26-1. The "HD Rule" which is rule 33-7 protects players from the "armchair quarterback" - no signing of an incorrect score card. Let's move on...

[3putter]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

If he chose one of 'those correct' spots, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

He chose a spot that adjust the shot he just hit to gain an advantage............period

As the officials saw it during life play, it was the correct spot. But you have your blinders on, so enjoy yourself.

[BallStriker]

Can't believe the discussion about Tiger's drop continues......a LOT of great stories on the leaderboard right now.....

Can Tiger find a way to shoot a low number to get in the mix?

Can Scott shake off the debacle at the Open Championship and play a great Sunday round?  Can Stevie do the same and tote the bag like a champion butler should?

Cabrerra......are you f'in kidding me.......alligator blood

Snedeker.....has some meltdown history in his past.....tears and all

Day.......would be very cool to see him get the Jacket....very likeable guy

Can BallStriker win the SandTrap Masters Contest with Adam Scott -8??????

[atb5079]

Please tell me you are all watching Fred Ridley right now

[iacas]

Please tell me you are all watching Fred Ridley right now

Huh? Why? Tiger needs 66 tomorrow. I think -9 plays off or wins outright.

[atb5079]

Originally Posted by iacas

Huh? Why?

Tiger needs 66 tomorrow. I think -9 plays off or wins outright.

Because he just walked everyone through the entire process of this debacle. That way everyone is on the same page. We can all have different opinions on the topic, but too many people on here were ignorant towards the entire story.

[David in FL]

Huh? Why? Tiger needs 66 tomorrow. I think -9 plays off or wins outright.

I need Sneds to get to -11!