Masters Bush League Bullying - Everything I hate about Augusta

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Rick Martin

what part of my post are you having difficulty with? The greatest golfer? Or that he has a lot of weight to what he says?

Nice attitude.

Just because he won 18 majors does not mean he can't ever be wrong… as he is in this case.

You didn't answer my question, because you know the answer is "no."

[chico713]

I only mention Nicklaus because 18 majors and a close full of green jackets carries more weight than anyone named Chico in a golf forum, and for that manner anyone who disagrees with him in that golf forum.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by chico713

I only mention Nicklaus because 18 majors and a close full of green jackets carries more weight than anyone named Chico in a golf forum, and for that manner anyone who disagrees with him in that golf forum.

Yes, his opinion does carry more weight in the golf world ... people will definitely listen to him, whereas they couldn't really care less what you and I think.  However, just because people will listen to him doesn't make him right 100% of the time.  And he's wrong about this one.

Further, I don't know if his opinion on slow play should matter that much.  Wouldn't that be sort of like taking chipping advice from Hunter Mahan?  Putting advice from Boo Weekley?  Marriage advice from Tiger Woods?

[iacas]

Jack Nicklaus is not bigger than the rules by which we play the game, and Guan violated - repeatedly - the pace of play rules.

Jack is wrong on this. That's fine - he still has 18 majors. We don't take one away every time he's wrong.

[saevel25]

Jack hasn't played competitive golf in nearly 8 years. He gets to sit on the sideline and spectate. Really in 2005, he was playing the majors only. I am not sure how bad pace of play was when Jack was actually playing a full schedule of golf, but i bet it wasn't close to slow play there is now on the PGA. Jack probably has little experience with slow play. Believe me, i am sure Jack might have gotten hit with a few warnings in his day, he wasn't a fast play by any means.

18 major's doesn't make him the definitive source for the rules on golf. I believe Arnold Palmer said he didn't want to see two sets of rules for Pro's and Amateurs. I think Gary Player said he did want to see two sets of rules. Who's opinion do we believe, both are accomplished players, both live for golf, both have won multiple majors. Everyone has there opinion, just because they have clout doesn't mean there right.

[MS256]

Even Jack can take a joke about how slow he was.

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/john-feinstein/why-not-to-emulate-nicklaus/

Of course since then the art of slow play has been perfected even more. The worst I've ever noticed was the group ahead of Tiger's group at Torrey Pines. A snail could have gotten around the course faster than they did.

Since they were 30 minutes behind the group in front of them I have no idea why something wasn't done. I joked that Tiger's group should have played through or skipped a hole and gone back to it later.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

Being the winner of18 major championships does come with its benefits.

But he is still a golfer, not the Pope.  So infallibility is off the table.

[NM Golf]

Originally Posted by turtleback

But he is still a golfer, not the Pope.  So infallibility is off the table.

Hence my comment that he was allowed to be wrong... umm...because he won 18 majors.

At the risk of starting a Holy war I'll let that Pope comment go

[chico713]

Not sure if it was mentioned on this 2 week old thread but I've learned the "clock" doesn't start until a player pulls a club. Tour players routinely get around the clock by debating the shot with their caddy before pulling the club. Apparently Guan didn't know how to delay the game "legally"

[chico713]

"Day’s par-par finish might also have spared tournament officials from a vitriolic insurrection by those who felt that the teenager had been unfairly targeted. After all, Day’s group needed 5 hours, 45 minutes to complete 18 holes, yet Guan was deemed to be the only player in violation of the slow-play policy."....That was from the Boston Globe. Tell me how Gaun was penalized and no one else was. Two reasons, he wasn't savvy enough to know how to work the clock, and he was a 14 yr old kid from China. Paramour felt no hesitation fining a kid who wouldn't fight back and question him in the press. Also, the chances that Paramour crosses Gaun's path again are slim because he's not a tour member.

[Wisguy]

Chico, what's it going to take for you to quit kicking this long dead horse?

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by chico713

... the "clock" doesn't start until a player pulls a club.

There's no way this is right ... is there?  Can somebody confirm this?

[Odogesq]

Originally Posted by chico713

A penalty shot on a 14 year old Chinese amateur?  Are you frigging kidding me??!!!  And then none of these sycophantic announcers have the balls to say how wrong it was because they don't want to get banned by the racist and fascist Augusta National administrators.  C'mon the kid is 14!!!  What id that 8th grade.  Pick on these other guys that are taking FOREVER to get a yardage, read the wind, chat with the caddie, ask the PATRONS to be quiet..If this kid missed the cut over this it would be a travesty.  I love the course and the back 9 on Sunday but these guys should take their bully act and stick it up their ass.

Trevino changed his shoes in the parking lot for a reason

Nobilo, Chamblee, and the rest of them are a bunch of pussies

I disagree as well.  He was warned several times throughout his round.  He should have picked it up.  Your comments throughout this thread seem to be a direct attack on Augusta itself.  While Augusta is well deserving of criticism, there is no way you are going to convince anyone that Guan did not deserve that penalty, that he was not repeatedly warned throughout his round, or that his group was not out of position.

[NM Golf]

Originally Posted by chico713

Not sure if it was mentioned on this 2 week old thread but I've learned the "clock" doesn't start until a player pulls a club. Tour players routinely get around the clock by debating the shot with their caddy before pulling the club. Apparently Guan didn't know how to delay the game "legally"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

There's no way this is right ... is there?  Can somebody confirm this?

I would love to have him cite where he found this little tidbit of information. I cannot find that anywhere. All I find is this:

Once that timing of a group begins, each player has 40 seconds to play each stroke, except in the following cases when he has 60 seconds:

• He is the first of his group to play from the teeing ground of a par-3 hole;
• He is the first to play a second shot on a par-4 or par-5;
• He is the first to play a third shot on a par-5;
• He is the first player to play around the putting green;
• He is the first to play on the putting green.

That certainly seems wrong to me someone could take all day and the officials couldn't do anything. I am pretty sure that chico713 is full of .

[iacas]

Originally Posted by chico713

Not sure if it was mentioned on this 2 week old thread but I've learned the "clock" doesn't start until a player pulls a club. Tour players routinely get around the clock by debating the shot with their caddy before pulling the club. Apparently Guan didn't know how to delay the game "legally"

The clock starts when it's your turn to play, whether you've pulled a club or not.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

That certainly seems wrong to me someone could take all day and the officials couldn't do anything. I am pretty sure that chico713 is full of .

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing .. however, I didn't know for sure so I didn't want to argue with the same quantity of backing information as him. :)

Originally Posted by iacas

The clock starts when it's your turn to play, whether you've pulled a club or not.

And that is pretty much what I thought because that is, well, logical.

[Dave2512]

I think what he is referring to is some of the commentary during the Masters the day after it happened. I can't remember who was calling it that day. But a few that opposed it suggested because Guan was unaware of how to get around it that he'd been unfairly targeted because it's common practice. One scenario they suggested was tour pros send the caddies ahead while purposely lingering behind to allow time for their caddies to get a read on yardage and lie, the entire situation etc. Therefore avoiding the 40 second thing. Could be a little off but it's close enough. They basically insinuated because Guan is green he got to his ball earlier than the known slow players and got hung up on what to do and was put on the clock. Their gripe being no actual additional time was spent because its common practice for others known to be extremely slow to loaf as their caddies go through the above routine. I heard it, more than once, and IMO it seemed like a stretch. I don't recall anyone citing actual rules.