What's up with everyone's fascination with working the ball?

[boogielicious]

NM Golf,

I think you pointed out earlier that folks may be confusing the natural shot shape tendency with intentionally "bending it like Bubba".  Maybe high HC should not focus on it, but practicing it occasionally will help them understand ball flight and may actually improve their ball striking.  Controlling the club face at impact is a key and understanding the path/face angle relationship will help players become better.  It has certainly helped me.

Plus, the new golfer or recreational golfer may interpret and slight curve or ball that lands on target as a straight shot, when it really has curve to it.

[MS256]

When I first started playing golf I was damn good at working the ball either way and getting out of trouble. It was a good thing because I wasn't worth a crap at hitting my driver in the fairway, and I got plenty of practice at working it.

Funny thing was that there were many times when I was playing with a MUCH better golfer than I was who seemed clueless to me when they were forced into having to hit hooks or slices to get out of trouble, on shots that I would have considered a piece of cake.

There were even times playing in scramble matches where those better players would choose to play my ball over in the trees but closer to the green than their balls in the fairway just because they knew I could hit a hook or slice from there on the green and from where they were in the fairway the green was unreachable for any of us.

One of them told me one time after I messed up an unobstructed shot from the fairway that he was "going to plant trees in the middle of the fairway" so I would hit more good shots.

Now I am much better at staying out of trouble and hitting fairways and I also have noticed that I am nowhere close to as good at working the ball as I used to be, especially with fades and slices. Way too many times now my planned slices don't move at all and turn out to be a straight ball that misses left.

I guess it's a good tradeoff though because at least I'm not in situations where I have no choice but to work the ball very often.

OMG...I'm becoming just like those better players I used to play with that weren't very good at working the ball, and seemed clueless when they had to!!!

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

This tends to be true when it shouldn't be: amateurs try to work the ball 10x to 20x as frequently as PGA Tour pros.

Yup.  Just based on NM's little poll ... currently, at least ... 40% (22 of 55) of "us" work the ball more often than we should. (Meaning they answered one of the first 3 choices)

And of course, the poll is a little off because people clearly don't understand what is meant by "working the ball" but regardless, those numbers, like the rent, and the deficit, are "too damn high!"

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by iacas

This tends to be true when it shouldn't be: amateurs try to work the ball 10x to 20x as frequently as PGA Tour pros.

that might make sense... we seem to be in trouble and around corners more often.  (cause or effect, you decide)

I'm out of the thread here, I think.  I like to do some portion of drills to 'work' it mostly in 'practice', because I believe it'll make me a better hitter in general more consistent with my regular swing.  So that's been said, and now I think it's a tangent to the rest of the comment.

good discussion though

[Zeph]

Yup.  Just based on NM's little poll ... currently, at least ... 40% (22 of 55) of "us" work the ball more often than we should. (Meaning they answered one of the first 3 choices) And of course, the poll is a little off because people clearly don't understand what is meant by "working the ball" but regardless, those numbers, like the rent, and the deficit, are "too damn high!"

And the options are not the best. Anyone trying to hit a fade or draw without a tree or something in the way will have to check the "Less than 50%" alternative, which can be anything from 1% to 49%. I do hit the occasional fade or shot that strays from my stock shot, without it being because of an obstruction, but it's still far away from 50%. The results of a poll are no better than it's question and alternatives.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Yup.  Just based on NM's little poll ... currently, at least ... 40% (22 of 55) of "us" work the ball more often than we should. (Meaning they answered one of the first 3 choices)

And of course, the poll is a little off because people clearly don't understand what is meant by "working the ball" but regardless, those numbers, like the rent, and the deficit, are "too damn high!"

Like Zeph said, even granting that "working the ball" is defined as anything other than your stock shot shape and trajectory, I don't think the 3rd option should be categorically included in "too often".  If your exact answer is something like 30%, then yes, you should take a lesson from the pros, most of whom who hit the stock shot a very high percentage of the time.

But an excellent scratch amateur or one playing off a 2 or 3 HC can certainly choose to hit a non-stock shot sometimes when not stuck behind a tree or not playing with very strong wind and not have that be a mistake.  Case in point, the best twosome I was ever randomly paired with, two guys clearly playing off something like a 2-4 HC.  There's a hole at one of my frequent courses that's ~380, steep uphill to about 200 out, then pretty significant dog leg right, with a green that is skinny-ish but long and bends further right, with trees hanging out to further penalize approaches from even right-mid-right of the fairway, or middle of the fairway if you play too safe and are middle but behind most of the dog leg.  Good young players with distance off the tee must be VERY confident in a strong fade with the driver or you'll end up OB past the dog leg on any miss, and even a 3W is pretty risky for a long amateur who hits a natural draw.  One of these two had a stock draw but took 3W and hit a sweet high fade that left him mid-left in the fairway 120-130 out.  That's not a mistake for him!

Though I'd agree that for anyone not something like mid-single digits or better, the answer would have to be something like less that 5% when not forced for it to count as not a game management mistake.

[hendog]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

Okay here we go...

And your a 9 handicap? I would expect someone with that much clubhead control to be a +3 at least.

Then you don't work the ball most of the time. If hitting a fade is working the ball I need to change my answer in the poll because I hit a fade 95% of the time.

Probably so, but not for the same reason.

I am picking on you and I apologize, but you are exactly the person I was talking about when I when I started this thread. To each their own, but I just don't think there is a 9 handicap on this earth that has the clubhead control to work every shot. I certainly wish you the best in your endeavors. You are just an unlucky soul that you were the first mid handicap to answer "most of the time"

I'll tell you the same thing I tell my wife when she is being a brat. The next time you ask a question, please provide a list of acceptable answers so I don't walk into a trap.

My natural shot is a draw so when I say my "stock" shot is a fade I simply mean that with no other outside forces influencing my shot, I now choose to hit a fade which for me is working the ball. I do this because it helps me focus.

Have you ever walked out of a room and reached for the light switch and missed? You stop and take another swipe at it but miss again. Then you turn, step towards the switch, place your hand on it and flip it. Focus. The same thing happens in golf. You know that guy who hits after you hit a bad shot? The guy who hits it perfectly? I'm talking about yourself when you shank one from the fairway into the lake. You throw another ball down and hit a perfect shot.  Focus. Some people are blessed with it, others have to work at it. I am the latter.

Finally I guess this is your lucky day NM Golf because you just met a 9 handicap who has the clubhead control to work every shot. I guess the lesson here is that no matter how much control you may have over your club head, if you can't control your distances from 100 an in and chip and putt any better than average then you will lose 9-10 strokes per round. If you have any advice for that I'd be happy to listen. Otherwise I will simply be sure to avoid you on the range so I don't upset you with my sweet shot shaping

[AmazingWhacker]

My stock shot is a draw and I never try to hit a fade.  The only time I'll "work" the ball is I might try to draw it *more* if there's something in the way.  But if I have a shot where a fade could go around a tree or something .. I'll punch under the tree with my 3 iron vs try to hit a fade.

[MPtheKid]

Stock shot is fairly straight, not a lot of movement to it, maybe a tiny hint of draw. I don't try to intentionally fade or draw shots unless it is absolutely necessary.

I will flight the ball lower in windy conditions, but I don't necessarily think of that as "working" the ball.