Ban Belly Putters?

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by Kieran123

WTF, Westwood uses a belly putter now? I had never seen this....apparently he used it at Augusta too....

Louis Oosthuizen has been practicing with a long putter too. It is rumored that when Ernie found out, he called Louis up to say that if it ever showed up in the bag while they were playing together, he'd stick it up his .

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Louis Oosthuizen has been practicing with a long putter too. It is rumored that when Ernie found out, he called Louis up to say that if it ever showed up in the bag while they were playing together, he'd stick it up his .

Ernie's using a BP now as well.

Can we at least pretend to say on topic?

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by iacas

Ernie's using a BP now as well.

Yeah, but he's over 40 -- which is the official threshold of acceptability.

Originally Posted by iacas

Can we at least pretend to say on topic?

No sir.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Yeah, but he's over 40 -- which is the official threshold of acceptability.

No sir.

There could be some exemptions for the belly putter (users of belly putters probably don't want to be associated with "BP" unless it's Boston Pizza):

1.) age related vision problems which prevent proper reading of greens when hunched over

2.) loss of "control" unless standing up straight during putting practice

3.) vertigo

[Gerald]

It will be my winter project, as with winter rules putterlength putts are considered to be made under normal circumstances in one stroke......... I am 6'9" and I think my best option is to go for one that you held up to your chin

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Gerald

It will be my winter project, as with winter rules putterlength putts are considered to be made under normal circumstances in one stroke......... I am 6'9" and I think my best option is to go for one that you held up to your chin

I hope you don't have to use those rounds for your index - at your height you might be giving Graeme McDowell strokes!!

[Kieran123]

Quote:

Unsatisfied with his putting all season, Garrett Willis was ready to dump the Scotty Cameron model putter that refers to as "Old Faithful" and exchange it for a belly putter. He used the belly putter in a practice round at a nearby course on Wednesday and arrived at Harbour Town about 30 minutes earlier than usual to dial it in.

After breakfast Willis was walking to the rane, preparing for his 8:50 a.m. starting time, and had a change of heart. He sent his caddie to the car to get "Old Faithful" and used it to hit a handful of putts to get ready for the round.

"I said, you know what, go back to the car and get Old Faithful. I can’t pull the trigger," Willis said.

That turned out to be a great decision.

"I haven’t missed a tournament in five years with it," Willis said. "I’ve been having 31, 32, 33 putts a round, which is leading to a lot of missed cuts. And this is the week I’m going to break away, I’m going to do it, I’m going to switch. I say that almost every week, but I don’t have the guts enough to do it. Luckily it paid off."

Willis had one of the best putting days of his career. It led to a run of six straight birdies on the front nine and a round of 64, which gave him the early first round lead at The Heritage.

"Obviously I’m very excited about putting this well and having a chance to make the cut for a change," Willis said.

Willis has made the cut only twice in eight starts. His best finish was a tie for 15th at the Transitions Championship, one of a handful of courses Willis said he’s capable of competing on. That short list includes Harbour Town, where he hasn’t played since 2003. His best finish at The Heritage was a tie for 38th in 2003.

It was an all-around good day for players who opted out of the belly putter. Tim Herron changed his mind at the last minute and stuck with his old putter and wound up shooting a 65, the best round of his career at Harbour Town.

From pgatour.com

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Phil McGlenno

None of those things are not "swinging." You don't pendulum those things. If you want to swing one-handed you're still "swinging" the club and it's not anchored into you. Swinging isn't the same as anchoring.

Whether or not you've got one end of the putter touching your upper body, you're still swinging the club and you're still striking the ball with the head of the club.  I don't buy this at all: maybe there's a reason the anchor or croquet style strike isn't allowed, but claiming that it's not "swinging" is bogus.

[Texian]

Here's my prediction, and you can quote me.

Using a long putter is a simpler way to putt. Instead of having to coordinate two hands, you an putt with long putters using only one, with the other anchoring the club. In mathematical terms, this is a 50 percent improvement in your successfully coordinating a putting stroke. Or would it be a 100 percent improvement. You math majors figure it out, but in this case two hands are not better than one. One is better than two.

Also, if you stand on a putting green with a ball in your dominant hand, and want to toss it as accurately as possible toward a hole in the ground, you would make essentially the same movement that a golfer using a long putter anchored with one hand would use. (This means the guys who use "belly" putters anchored to their midsections are missing the benefit of long putters).

Long putters are the wave of the future. In a few years short putters will be as rare as long putters were five years ago.

[kilbyman]

Here's my prediction, and you can quote me.

Using a long putter is a simpler way to putt. Instead of having to coordinate two hands, you an putt with long putters using only one, with the other anchoring the club. In mathematical terms, this is a 50 percent improvement in your successfully coordinating a putting stroke. Or would it be a 100 percent improvement. You math majors figure it out, but in this case two hands are not better than one. One is better than two.

Also, if you stand on a putting green with a ball in your dominant hand, and want to toss it as accurately as possible toward a hole in the ground, you would make essentially the same movement that a golfer using a long putter anchored with one hand would use. (This means the guys who use "belly" putters anchored to their midsections are missing the benefit of long putters).

Long putters are the wave of the future. In a few years short putters will be as rare as long putters were five years ago.

That's great and all... but the long putter doesn't help read a green and I would submit that IMO the longer putter takes out feel, which I use to help judge speed. Also, I would toss that ball you are talking about underhanded, not push it sideways across my body. The point is, the long/belly putters make it so you don't swing the club... which is kind of the point of our beloved sport?

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Texian

Also, if you stand on a putting green with a ball in your dominant hand, and want to toss it as accurately as possible toward a hole in the ground, you would make essentially the same movement that a golfer using a long putter anchored with one hand would use. (This means the guys who use "belly" putters anchored to their midsections are missing the benefit of long putters).

I might toss the ball overhand, but likely underhand while facing the target. Similar to bocci (petanque for my friends in Quebec), horse shoes, lawn darts (those were safe!?!), ring toss, and any other activity that involves tossing something into or at something else..

[SouthernILGolfer]

The putter is the one club that has the least amount of regulation about it, isnt it.   Hell, Happy Gilmore used a hocky stick to putt with.  I didnt know there was a restriction on how long or short a putter can be.  Like that one player that uses the one that looks like its for a little kid, has to bend over and putt with it, after about 4 holes my back would be killing me.  I think thats why a lot of players go to the belly putter, back problems.  They simply cant bend over and make a normal putting stroke and survive a whole round with pain, especially popular on Champions Tour(Fred Couples, Bernard Langer, Tom Kite to name a few).  I thought the only restriction on a putter was the proportions of the head, it has to wider than it is deep, making the infamous dr feelgood putter being pushed by the pow hammer guy illegal.   I dont use a belly putter as it seems awkward to me, i use the same interlocking grip putting as I do with the rest of my shots, you need to separate your hands to use a belly putter.   I wouldnt feel comfortable using that technique and probably wouldnt be a very good putter.   But if someone else wants to use one go for it, its not like it magically guides the ball into the hole, still have to make the right read and get the speed right to make putts.    Even players that use them have trouble sometimes on shorter putts as taking a shorter stroke required for those putts is more difficult with a longer putter.   Im not even sure why there is a debate on this topic.

[jasatto]

I'm a purist at heart so I guess its no surprise that I voted yes to ban the long/belly-putters.  In every other competitive sport where equipment is part of the skill, there are uniform standards.  I prefer to see golfers compete using substantially similar equipment, it equalizes the field and lets skill be the differentiating factor.

I also have trouble understanding why the USGA would permit equipment that fundamentally changes the mechanics of putting in a number of ways.   Yes, its still a pendulum motion but the fulcrum is anywhere from 1-4 feet from a real putter.  The design of the belly putter allows a bracing against the body, never a part of the original putting motion.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by zeg

Whether or not you've got one end of the putter touching your upper body, you're still swinging the club and you're still striking the ball with the head of the club.  I don't buy this at all: maybe there's a reason the anchor or croquet style strike isn't allowed, but claiming that it's not "swinging" is bogus.

You aren't swinging it, you're pivoting it.  Big difference.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by jasatto

I'm a purist at heart so I guess its no surprise that I voted yes to ban the long/belly-putters.  In every other competitive sport where equipment is part of the skill, there are uniform standards.  I prefer to see golfers compete using substantially similar equipment, it equalizes the field and lets skill be the differentiating factor.

I also have trouble understanding why the USGA would permit equipment that fundamentally changes the mechanics of putting in a number of ways.   Yes, its still a pendulum motion but the fulcrum is anywhere from 1-4 feet from a real putter.  The design of the belly putter allows a bracing against the body, never a part of the original putting motion.

I'm a purist too, but I leaned toward, and voted, no.

I'm not sure comparisons to other sports are valid, since golf if special, but the best comparisons are to other stick and ball sports. They do have rules on the maximum lenth of the stick (hockey, baseball, . . .) but not how that stick is held or swung. In most reactionary sports, anchoring the stick the body would be counterproductive. In a sport like billiards, you can probably hold the cue in your teeth if you can still make the shot.

[zeg]

You aren't swinging it, you're pivoting it.  Big difference.

I still don't agree, certainly without a specific definition of the word "swing." From the OED, swinging means "move or cause to move back and forth or from side to side while or as if suspended." That's one of several definitions, but none would give a distinction between swinging and pivoting in the sense you're using. The requirement that you "swing" the club prevents playing billiards to putt. It probably would also prevent you from putting by holding two points on the club and translating them together, since you're now pushing instead of swinging. But whether or not you're holding the end of the club against your body, it's still swinging. I think everyone would agree that the pendulum in a grandfather clock is swinging back and forth, and its top is most certainly anchored to a pivot. As I said before, maybe there's a reason not to allow swinging with one end anchored, but to argue that it's not "swinging" is a circular argument. You're defining a "swing" to be what you're allowed to do when you hit a golf ball, then trying to use that to argue that you can't swing in a particular way. You need to break the circle by defining exactly what it is about that swing is "wrong." And, certainly you can do this, but I still don't really understand why that's desirable. To paraphrase the old saw quoted a few posts back, "I can't define a golf swing but I know one when I see one" isn't quite appropriate for the rule books, but that seems to be the crux of the justification that keeps coming up, in various terms and from various people.

[newtogolf]

Anyone can use a anchored belly putter, so it terms of an overall unfair advantage I agree it's not.  In terms of does it make putting easier, I'd have to say for some, yes.  Most of the pro's that have switched to the belly putter did so because they weren't successfully putting with a regular putter, whether it be due to poor form, yips, etc.  If not for the belly putter, these guys would most likely no longer be on the tour, or be scoring as well as they are.

Playing devils advocate here, but using the same logic anchored belly putter supporters use, shouldn't Jim Furyk get to use a longer or larger driver since he can't physically drive the ball as far as Bubba Watson?

[inthehole]

You can't even put your rain cover on your bag with a long putter in it ... that alone should disqualify them.