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David in FL

Forum Profile Handicap Indices....

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Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

I haven't even golfed 10 full 18 rounds outside of league yet. And even adding that I'm probably only at about 15 rounds. I could just put the league hc on my profile but it's for 9 holes so it's not indicative of what a full 18 would be.

Originally Posted by David in FL

In your league, do you play by the rules and keep an accurate individual score, or is it some other game?  If so, you can enter 9 hole scores (played and scored properly) into the GHIN system and they will combine for 18 hole rounds.  Nothing at all wrong with that.....

You only need 10 rounds to establish a handicap.  It will simply be less accurate compared to folks that have posted 20 rounds (kinda).

And as long as you've been doing hardly any cheating , you can post those 9 hole rounds and they will combine.

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Originally Posted by trackster

Hallelujah!  Great post.  I as well would take no joy in beating someone because they gave me tons of strokes.  If Tiger gave me 15 strokes and we went and played and he shot 67 and I shot 81, I'm not going to think I just "beat" Tiger.  I would rather loose straight up.  Some people rely on the handicap a little too much if you ask me.

But Tiger will have absolutely no interest in playing with you, without something to make it competitive......

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Originally Posted by David in FL

But Tiger will have absolutely no interest in playing with you......

And the match will be entirely uninteresting.  The only way for a spectator to find it interesting would be for them to start asking themselves, "I wonder if he can manage to lose by only 12 strokes?"  Guess what they've effectively done?

Make no mistake, I don't like the fact that I need strokes to compete with single digit guys for money.  However, the only way I would compete for money with guys I have no chance of beating in gross stroke play is with net stroke play.

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I keep a handicap, as far as the handicap rules around here works, but it's not accurate, which is why I put a range. Officially I'm 11.5, but I probably got four registered scores the last two years. I don't really find a need to measure myself against anyone else. I'm primarily focused on having fun and improving my own swing. Don't play a lot of competitions either. I may get to a point where I'm satisfied with my swing and start playing more seriously.

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Originally Posted by David in FL

We seem to have a lot of posters who don't maintain a real handicap.  I'm curious as to why.....  I'm not talking about the guy that just started golf this year, or someone like Fourputt who's on something of a forced sabbatical, but rather the guys who play when they can and are serious/interested enough in the game to actually spend time on this forum.

While the purpose of a handicap is to allow for golfers of differing abilities to compete against each other on a relatively level playing field, for those of us interested in improving our game (everyone on this forum presumably) it also provides a method by which we can track our progress.  Additionally, advice provided on the forum is often customized for the specific individual and an accurate handicap can provide some useful insight as to the perspective of someone seeking advice.....

Having said that, a couple of questions.

-  Is the handicap as shown in your profile current.....say at least within the last 2 15-day revisions?

-  Is it correct and "official", or some form of guess/estimate/self-calculation?

-  If it's not current, correct, and official, why not?

-  If it's not correct and official, do you know how a handicap is actually calculated?  How are you calculating yours?

Just to start....  Probably no surprise since I started the thread, but mine is correct, official, and current.  I try to remember to update with each revision if there's a change.  Unfortunately, it went up .2 on the 15th.

1)  It is current to the point where I had to cease carrying an official handicap - current to my last round in April of 2012.

2)  My index was 12.6 as of my last official GHIN revision

3)  I haven't had any way to play, so no reason to continue paying a fee to keep a handicap which was never going to change

4)  n/a

Needless to say, when I play my first round of the year on August 23, after a 16 month layoff, my handicap and how I actually score will probably be separated by a gap as wide as the Pacific Ocean.  It's still the only thing I have to post, so there it is.

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Originally Posted by Zeph

I don't really find a need to measure myself against anyone else. I'm primarily focused on having fun and improving my own swing. Don't play a lot of competitions either. I may get to a point where I'm satisfied with my swing and start playing more seriously.

Really?  I've heard people say this before, but I don't get it.  Golf is a game - and games are competitions.  I can't imagine playing golf - or anything else - where I wouldn't want to win or measure myself against anyone else.  I wouldn't go shoot hoops or play tennis without trying to win.  I wouldn't play a board game without trying to win.  If I didn't want to measure myself against others - what would get me out to practice? I want my chance to look good out there once in a while.  And maybe even talk a little friendly smack.

Maybe it is just my friend group or generation - but everything is a competition.  And I don't consider myself a competitive guy really.  I'm not going to get emotional about losing a game of Pictionary - but I'm damn sure gonna try to win while we're playing. And if my buddies or the guys at the course or whatever are shooting a certain score - I definitely don't want to be the worst.  And I'd like win sometimes.

I'm not trying to challenge your stance - and I read this I see that it seems that way.  But I'd imagine with all of the high tech equipment and swing thoughts and instruction that dominates this site / the golf channel / golf magazines, etc. - that most golfers want to be measured against others - and hope to measure up or even impress.

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Originally Posted by Fourputt

Needless to say, when I play my first round of the year on August 23, after a 16 month layoff, my handicap and how I actually score will probably be separated by a gap as wide as the Pacific Ocean.  It's still the only thing I have to post, so there it is.

Glad to hear you'll be back at it.  Mind if I ask why you've been out 16 months?

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Really?  I've heard people say this before, but I don't get it.  Golf is a game - and games are competitions.  I can't imagine playing golf - or anything else - where I wouldn't want to win or measure myself against anyone else.  I wouldn't go shoot hoops or play tennis without trying to win.  I wouldn't play a board game without trying to win.  If I didn't want to measure myself against others - what would get me out to practice? I want my chance to look good out there once in a while.  And maybe even talk a little friendly smack. Maybe it is just my friend group or generation - but everything is a competition.  And I don't consider myself a competitive guy really.  I'm not going to get emotional about losing a game of Pictionary - but I'm damn sure gonna try to win while we're playing. And if my buddies or the guys at the course or whatever are shooting a certain score - I definitely don't want to be the worst.  And I'd like win sometimes. I'm not trying to challenge your stance - and I read this I see that it seems that way.  But I'd imagine with all of the high tech equipment and swing thoughts and instruction that dominates this site / the golf channel / golf magazines, etc. - that most golfers want to be measured against others - and hope to measure up or even impress.

I've always said, I'd rather win $5 from one of my golf buddies than find a $100 bill on the ground! ;-)

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i think I'm the exception ... I keep a hcp to judge my game & progress, not to compete.     For me, my putting consistently destroys my scores, so competition in any form would be an exercise in frustration ...

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Mine is not current.  Do not really see the need since it doesn't change by more than +/- 1pt.  It gives a general idea which is fine by me.  And yes it's official.

THIS IS MY CURRENT

List | Graph Current Index: 9.0
Tee
Rating/Slope
20
83
H
7/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
68.7/118
13.7
1_0
19
*
80
H
7/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
71.4/135
7.2
2_0
18
86
H
7/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
68.7/118
16.6
3_0
17
*
76
I
7/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
68.7/118
7
4_0
16
*
82
CI
7/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
70.4/128
10.2
5_0
15
81
CI
7/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
68.2/115
12.6
6_0
14
83
CI
6/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
69.0/118
13.4
7_0
13
*
84
H
6/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
71.4/135
10.5
8_0
12
*
84
C
6/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
71.4/135
10.5
9_0
11
86
AI
6/13
Lafayette Elks Golf Club
White
69.4/118
15.9
10_0
10
87
AI
6/13
Battleground Golf Club
Tan
69.8/123
15.8
11_0
9
*
80
AI
6/13
Coyote Crossing Golf Course
Tan
69.3/128
9.4
12_0
8
86
CI
6/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
69.6/125
14.8
13_0
7
*
79
I
6/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
68.7/118
9.9
14_0
6
90
I
6/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
71.4/135
15.6
15_0
5
*
83
I
6/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
71.4/135
9.7
16_0
4
87
I
6/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
68.7/118
17.5
17_0
3
*
80
I
6/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
71.4/135
7.2
18_0
2
*
86
CI
6/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
71.4/135
12.2
19_0
1
87
I
6/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
71.4/135
13.1

AND THIS MY TREND

List | Graph Trend Handicap: 8.9L
Tee
Rating/Slope
20
84
AI
7/13
Coyote Crossing Golf Course
Tan
69.3/128
13
1_0
19
*
79
I
7/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
68.7/118
9.9
2_0
18
85
AI
7/13
Champion Hills
70.4/140
11.8
3_0
17
*
82
AI
7/13
Carmel Country Club- North
Blue
71.2/135
9
4_0
16
83
H
7/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
68.7/118
13.7
5_0
15
*
80
H
7/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
71.4/135
7.2
6_0
14
86
H
7/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
68.7/118
16.6
7_0
13
*
76
I
7/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
68.7/118
7
8_0
12
*
82
CI
7/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
70.4/128
10.2
9_0
11
81
CI
7/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
68.2/115
12.6
10_0
10
83
CI
6/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
69.0/118
13.4
11_0
9
*
84
H
6/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
71.4/135
10.5
12_0
8
*
84
C
6/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
71.4/135
10.5
13_0
7
86
AI
6/13
Lafayette Elks Golf Club
White
69.4/118
15.9
14_0
6
87
AI
6/13
Battleground Golf Club
Tan
69.8/123
15.8
15_0
5
*
80
AI
6/13
Coyote Crossing Golf Course
Tan
69.3/128
9.4
16_0
4
86
CI
6/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
69.6/125
14.8
17_0
3
*
79
I
6/13
Purdue University - Ackerman Hills
White
68.7/118
9.9
18_0
2
90
I
6/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
71.4/135
15.6
19_0
1
*
83
I
6/13
Purdue University - Kampen Course
White
71.4/135
9.7

AND THIS MY HISTORY

List | Graph
9
07/15/2013
9.4
07/01/2013
8.7
06/15/2013
8.6
06/01/2013
8.6
05/15/2013
8.6
05/01/2013
8.8
04/15/2013
8.8
04/01/2013
8.8
03/15/2013
8.8
03/01/2013
8.8
02/15/2013
8.5
11/15/2012
8.5
11/01/2012
8.5
10/15/2012
8.5
10/01/2012
8.5
09/15/2012
8.4
09/01/2012
Lowest!
8.8
08/15/2012
9.5
08/01/2012
Highest!

Did I mention I tore my MCL in April.......LOL

EDIT:  Ugh!!!  Not sure what went crazy with margins....looked good before submitting....

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Originally Posted by trackster

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

No there is also the peer review of the scores, which should be taking place.

And how is this making it official?  They weren't there on my round, they didn't see any of my shots.

With the peer review that comes with an official handicap, there's at least *someone* looking at what you're posting and making sure it's reasonable.  If you end up always shooting much lower scores in tournaments they can adjust your handicap. If anything seems fishy at any time they can talk to you and get your story, or talk to people you've played with in social rounds or in tournaments and get theirs.  The point being that one can't just enter anything they want and get away with it long term, if there is an actual human paying attention.

In some handicap systems around the world you have to have someone actually play with you and sign your card for every score you turn in.  In systems that don't require that, there at least has to be someone, or a group of someones, doing the best they can to keep everything as legitimate as possible.

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I don't have one.

Current reasons I can think of:

1. I have no need for one. Everything I play in doesn't require a handicap.

2. The course where I now play almost exclusively (because it's free since I work there) has no course rating.

So, the number on my profile is a worst case scenario rough guess based on what I normally shoot when I go to a course that is rated.

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I am just happy to note that some other people also change their profile index from time to time. I sometime wondered if I was the only overly anal person here.  My index is relatively current and I maintain a handicap with our state golf association (a licensee of the USGA).

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Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

No desire to play/compete against people better than you or outside of your own happy little group?

You've been pretty active here for the last couple of months. That seems to indicate you're serious about the game. Why wouldn't you establish a handicap?

Not poking.....genuinely curious.

I'll play anyone...but I don't want strokes. I get no joy out of "beating" someone who shot 12 strokes better than me. Regardless of the outcome, to me...I lost.

I don't play in tournaments, I'm not in a league, so there's really no point in establishing a handicap. My listed one is just based on some of my rounds tossed into a calculator.

Eventually I'd like to enter tournaments, but tourneys where there's no handicap.

Originally Posted by trackster

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

No there is also the peer review of the scores, which should be taking place.

And how is this making it official?  They weren't there on my round, they didn't see any of my shots.  Like I said your handicap is official if you pay a course to use the computer.  It's your own merit that keeps it accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

I'll play anyone...but I don't want strokes. I get no joy out of "beating" someone who shot 12 strokes better than me. Regardless of the outcome, to me...I lost.

I don't play in tournaments, I'm not in a league, so there's really no point in establishing a handicap. My listed one is just based on some of my rounds tossed into a calculator.

Eventually I'd like to enter tournaments, but tourneys where there's no handicap.

Hallelujah!  Great post.  I as well would take no joy in beating someone because they gave me tons of strokes.  If Tiger gave me 15 strokes and we went and played and he shot 67 and I shot 81, I'm not going to think I just "beat" Tiger.  I would rather loose straight up.  Some people rely on the handicap a little too much if you ask me.

I can't fathom why you wouldn't want to be competitive.  Golf has been handicapped since just about forever.  It is such a difficult game to excel at that it's inevitable that there will always be a wide range of skill levels, and to make the game enjoyable and competitive, handicapping just makes good sense.

I would get zero enjoyment out of playing a 3 handicap straight up same as I'd get zero enjoyment from playing a 20 without giving him strokes.  It has nothing to do with bragging about who beat who - that's reserved for when I do play others who are close to me in ability.  It has to do with making a match or skins game competitive.  What's the point of playing a match when it's essentially over on the front 9 (in actual fact the result can probably be published before playing from the first tee)?  That just sounds stupid to me.  It certainly wouldn't be fun, regardless of which end of the whipping I'm on.

Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Needless to say, when I play my first round of the year on August 23, after a 16 month layoff, my handicap and how I actually score will probably be separated by a gap as wide as the Pacific Ocean.  It's still the only thing I have to post, so there it is.

Glad to hear you'll be back at it.  Mind if I ask why you've been out 16 months?

I live on a island where there is no golf.  To travel to the nearest course would cost a minimum of $400 round trip and the course charges $250 to play for non hotel guests.  That's a bit out of my price range.

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Originally Posted by Fourputt

I can't fathom why you wouldn't want to be competitive.  Golf has been handicapped since just about forever.  It is such a difficult game to excel at that it's inevitable that there will always be a wide range of skill levels, and to make the game enjoyable and competitive, handicapping just makes good sense.

I would get zero enjoyment out of playing a 3 handicap straight up same as I'd get zero enjoyment from playing a 20 without giving him strokes.  It has nothing to do with bragging about who beat who - that's reserved for when I do play others who are close to me in ability.  It has to do with making a match or skins game competitive.  What's the point of playing a match when it's essentially over on the front 9 (in actual fact the result can probably be published before playing from the first tee)?  That just sounds stupid to me.  It certainly wouldn't be fun, regardless of which end of the whipping I'm on.

I live on a island where there is no golf.  To travel to the nearest course would cost a minimum of $400 round trip and the course charges $250 to play for non hotel guests.  That's a bit out of my price range.

Did you never play sports in high school?  When we would go play a better team than ours we wouldn't not play because they were going to beat us by a lot.  You play hopefully because you enjoy the game.  We don't  have better runners run full marathons vs. bad runners running half marathons.  If you are in a division you run the same distance no matter your ability.  As bad as this sounds, if you are not as good at golf as someone then you have no reason "beating" them by them giving you strokes.

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Did you never play sports in high school?  When we would go play a better team than ours we wouldn't not play because they were going to beat us by a lot.  You play hopefully because you enjoy the game.  We don't  have better runners run full marathons vs. bad runners running half marathons.  If you are in a division you run the same distance no matter your ability.  As bad as this sounds, if you are not as good at golf as someone then you have no reason "beating" them by them giving you strokes.

You'd enjoy "competing" against and would find challenge and enjoyment in beating a 20 hcp golfer?

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Originally Posted by David in FL

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackster

Did you never play sports in high school?  When we would go play a better team than ours we wouldn't not play because they were going to beat us by a lot.  You play hopefully because you enjoy the game.  We don't  have better runners run full marathons vs. bad runners running half marathons.  If you are in a division you run the same distance no matter your ability.  As bad as this sounds, if you are not as good at golf as someone then you have no reason "beating" them by them giving you strokes.

You'd enjoy "competing" against and would find challenge and enjoyment in beating a 20 hcp golfer?

I know the question wasn't for me, but I know I don't enjoy playing against people that are significantly worse. In fact, I try to play with guys that are similar skill level, or ideally, better than I am. If I'm playing with someone with a higher handicap, I offer strokes or try to come up with a game (like wolf) that allows them to be competitive.

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I know the question wasn't for me, but I know I don't enjoy playing against people that are significantly worse. In fact, I try to play with guys that are similar skill level, or ideally, better than I am. If I'm playing with someone with a higher handicap, I offer strokes or try to come up with a game (like wolf) that allows them to be competitive.

Me too. I'm just trying to understand the thought process of someone that thinks it would be fun and challenging to compete against someone much less skilled than himself, without offering some kind of handicap to level the playing field.

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