Skins - do you always play off the low handicap in your foursome?

[chriskzoo]

I am only talking about when you play a round and keep skins within your foursome.  I contend (and rightly so) that you must always play off the low man because it ensures that the holes where higher handicappers get their strokes are the hardest on the course.  I have two guys I regularly golf with, one a low handicapper (3 index) and one a higher handicapper (17 index) who always battle me on this.

The low handicapper contends he wants his 4 strokes because it gives him those 4 holes where he can make par, net birdie and not have to make a natural birdie to win a skin.  On the other hand, I have the high handicapper who usually comes in around a 19 course handicap who wants all his strokes because it gives him a stroke on every hole and, as higher handicappers typically do, he's a high handicapper, not because he bogey's every hole, but because he'll par 6 holes (6 net birdies) and mix in some doubles and a triple in any given round.

How do you play with your friends?  I know that playing off the low handicap is the right thing to do, but these guys always want to argue it.

[Jeremie Boop]

Whenever I've played skins handicap was never even considered.

*edit*

I rarely play skins anyway but never played with such a large discrepancy in abilities of people.

[David in FL]

Anytime handicap strokes are given we play off the low hcp, for just that reason.

FWIW, we tend not to play net skins......that's one game that we play gross among people of similar abilities.

[MEfree]

Skins isn't a great handicap game, so you will have issues either way.  If you are playing carry-overs, then I doubt it is fair to play full handicap...as JB implied, skins is a better game when the handicaps are close and ignored.

[ghalfaire]

I have played it both ways and don't think that over time it makes much difference.  You can certainly come up with scenarios where it one way or the other would benefit the low or high handicap player, but over time I just think it doesn't matter which way you do it.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

If I am reading you post right than it is handicapped to the low handicapper. Skins game is a game against each other and not the course so his handicap versus the course doesn't matter except in relation to others handicap against the course.

Also, he does get his handicap by, in your scenario, the 17 handicap only getting a stroke on 14 holes and the 19 only getting one on 16 holes.

[boil3rmak3r]

This is a question often debated with my Thursday night league. We play 2-man teams and each hole is worth 2 points - 1 point for individual low net and 1 point for low net team score. Last year, the league had each match play off of the lowest handicap of the 4 players. This year, they decided to use full handicap. I think it's advantageous for the lower handicapper when you play full handicaps, but I've also heard from some low handicappers who think the opposite. So, I'm guessing you'll get a mixture of opinions here...

[meenman]

Originally Posted by chriskzoo

I am only talking about when you play a round and keep skins within your foursome.  I contend (and rightly so) that you must always play off the low man because it ensures that the holes where higher handicappers get their strokes are the hardest on the course.  I have two guys I regularly golf with, one a low handicapper (3 index) and one a higher handicapper (17 index) who always battle me on this.

The low handicapper contends he wants his 4 strokes because it gives him those 4 holes where he can make par, net birdie and not have to make a natural birdie to win a skin.  On the other hand, I have the high handicapper who usually comes in around a 19 course handicap who wants all his strokes because it gives him a stroke on every hole and, as higher handicappers typically do, he's a high handicapper, not because he bogey's every hole, but because he'll par 6 holes (6 net birdies) and mix in some doubles and a triple in any given round.

How do you play with your friends?  I know that playing off the low handicap is the right thing to do, but these guys always want to argue it.

This is a weekly argument in our foursome. Since I keep score, we do it my way.

All of us are within a few strokes of each other (course HC from 24-29)

I do not believe it is fair for the 2 of us that have to give strokes to give them a stroke on the #1 handicap hole when we would get 2 there as they would.

We start on the #7 (where the low man stops getting 2) hole with the strokes and go up from there.

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by meenman

This is a weekly argument in our foursome. Since I keep score, we do it my way.

All of us are within a few strokes of each other (course HC from 24-29)

I do not believe it is fair for the 2 of us that have to give strokes to give them a stroke on the #1 handicap hole when we would get 2 there as they would.

We start on the #7 (where the low man stops getting 2) hole with the strokes and go up from there.

If there is only a max of 5 hc difference why not play straight up? I mean, if it works how you are doing it now that's great but if you are generally pretty close I don't see the point.

[meenman]

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

If there is only a max of 5 hc difference why not play straight up? I mean, if it works how you are doing it now that's great but if you are generally pretty close I don't see the point.

Because everyone wants their strokes - funny this is, for the first time ever, all skins were won on strokes last week.

We dont play for serious money, it is more for ball busting purposes - basically so there is always someone rooting for and against the last guy putting.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by meenman

This is a weekly argument in our foursome. Since I keep score, we do it my way.

All of us are within a few strokes of each other (course HC from 24-29)

I do not believe it is fair for the 2 of us that have to give strokes to give them a stroke on the #1 handicap hole when we would get 2 there as they would.

We start on the #7 (where the low man stops getting 2) hole with the strokes and go up from there.

I've gone both ways on my opinion of this, but currently I'm with you.  Now that I (think I) understand the hole handicaps better, your way makes more logical sense.  The #1 handicap hole isn't the "hardest" hole on the course, per se, but rather the hole that the higher handicap needs LESS help on.  It's hard(er) for everybody.  The 18 handicap hole, OTOH, is a hole where the discrepancy between the better golfers and worse golfers is more magnified, therefore, the higher handicaps need more "help" there.  So, I think I would side with those who, like you, just go off full handicaps.

That said, I've never played skins.  The tournaments I play in do have a skins sidepot for those interested, however, like many others have stated, those are played straight up.  The top 2 flights are lumped together, the next 2, and then the last 2.  So, scratch through 8 handicaps are playing straight up, 8-16 together, and then 16 and up play together.  All straight up, gross scores.

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by meenman

Because everyone wants their strokes - funny this is, for the first time ever, all skins were won on strokes last week.

We dont play for serious money, it is more for ball busting purposes - basically so there is always someone rooting for and against the last guy putting.

Understandable, I'm just weird in that unless I win by my actual score I don't feel like I won. The few times I've won skins it was playing no handicap in some outings.

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by chriskzoo

I am only talking about when you play a round and keep skins within your foursome.  I contend (and rightly so) that you must always play off the low man because it ensures that the holes where higher handicappers get their strokes are the hardest on the course.  I have two guys I regularly golf with, one a low handicapper (3 index) and one a higher handicapper (17 index) who always battle me on this.

The low handicapper contends he wants his 4 strokes because it gives him those 4 holes where he can make par, net birdie and not have to make a natural birdie to win a skin.  On the other hand, I have the high handicapper who usually comes in around a 19 course handicap who wants all his strokes because it gives him a stroke on every hole and, as higher handicappers typically do, he's a high handicapper, not because he bogey's every hole, but because he'll par 6 holes (6 net birdies) and mix in some doubles and a triple in any given round.

How do you play with your friends?  I know that playing off the low handicap is the right thing to do, but these guys always want to argue it.

Skins in our league are always handicap based. I think we use 3/4 the handicap rounded down. So if you have a handicap of 4, you get a stroke on the three toughest holes.

Sucks when you get a birdie and a par beats you out because of handicap

[Big C]

I prefer to give strokes off the high handicapper. In other words, let's say you have an 18, a 12 and a 6. The 18 would get strokes on the easiest 6 holes. The 18 and 12 would both get strokes on the 6 "middle" holes. The toughest 6 holes would be played straight up. I think this is the most fair way to play and most indicative of how a stroke play event would actually transpire.

In other words, I agree with your low handicap buddy.

[meenman]

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

Understandable, I'm just weird in that unless I win by my actual score I don't feel like I won. The few times I've won skins it was playing no handicap in some outings.

There is a reason for handicaps in golf, my checkbook does not feel weird when I cash out in net tourneys. And neither does anyone else's at the club - I actually could argue that I am getting ripped off for the amount of money that goes into the gross pot and gross skins - since I have no chance of winning either.

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by meenman

There is a reason for handicaps in golf, my checkbook does not feel weird when I cash out in net tourneys. And neither does anyone else's at the club - I actually could argue that I am getting ripped off for the amount of money that goes into the gross pot and gross skins - since I have no chance of winning either.

Are skins not optional? Every time I've played for skins it's an option. If I don't think I have a chance I don't play. If it's forced/included in the outing/tournament then sure you could feel cheated by not getting handicap. At the same time, the guy who got a legit birdie could feel just as cheated when someone gets par but forces a carryover or that birdie by the other guy becomes eagle and you lose.

[meenman]

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

Are skins not optional? Every time I've played for skins it's an option. If I don't think I have a chance I don't play. If it's forced/included in the outing/tournament then sure you could feel cheated by not getting handicap. At the same time, the guy who got a legit birdie could feel just as cheated when someone gets par but forces a carryover or that birdie by the other guy becomes eagle and you lose.

You can opt in or out of skins in tourneys - but you cant only play gross or net - you get forced into both.

No one gets cheated in net skins - I almost understand the bitching when someone gets 2 strokes on a par 3 - but these people earned their handicaps.

If you feel using your strokes is cheating, dont carry a handicap, declare yourself a pro and play off scratch.

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by meenman

You can opt in or out of skins in tourneys - but you cant only play gross or net - you get forced into both.

No one gets cheated in net skins - I almost understand the bitching when someone gets 2 strokes on a par 3 - but these people earned their handicaps.

If you feel using your strokes is cheating, dont carry a handicap, declare yourself a pro and play off scratch.

You are taking this the wrong way. I don't feel like it's cheating, however it should be used to match people of similar skill more than anything, not matching a 5 hc against a 25 hc. I don't get into tournaments because I don't want to do that until/unless I get to a point where handicaps aren't really an issue. Even then most around here have you play "qualifying" rounds to establish the handicap that will place you in the correct field of players for your level. This is my personal choice and I've no problem with people doing what you do, just stating my opinion not what I expect everyone to think or do.