Playing Irons Only

[Jeremie Boop]

Also, a pro will hit a 8i into a green that they could just as easily hit a 9i into if they want less spin. Most average players just want to use x club for y distance. Could we go out and work out what distance we hit every club for different % swings like the pros do? Sure, but our time is better spent on improving striking, chipping, putting, and course management.

[k-troop]

Whether it's his easy swing or not isn't relevant it's his average and they don't have to guess because the PGA tracks stats. But what I don't get is if the best players in the world aren't trying to nuke it every time why do amateurs do it?

Good question.  I think your observation (highlighted) applies to a typical PGA pro, but not all of them.  From my observations it's mechanics and repeatability.

I played last weekend with two really good college golfers; one plays for UW and the other for Pepperdine.  They're both small kids, 5'7" to 5'9" and maybe 150#.  Neither are particularly powerful, but they make good wide arcs with the long clubs and hit the ball in the middle of the face--every time.  I was roughly half a club longer than one and half a club shorter than the other.

It had been quite a while since I actually played a round of golf with some really good players so I could compare my shots to theirs and observe up close.

From the first swing I noticed that their plane and tempo were perfect.  They both got great extension and generated decent speed, but never swung "hard".  With the shorter clubs there was less extension, but still good solid contact every time.  Solid mechanics and pure contact.  This is similar to what I've observed about a lot of elite golfers (tour-level guys and top amateurs).

I think that explains it, in a nutshell.  Average Tour guys generating 114 MPH of driver clubhead speed are getting that speed from a wide arc on the long clubs and solid contact, but they don't really swing hard, which translates to about 275-280 carry with the driver.  They're hitting wedge about 130-135, basically the same as us when we make solid contact.

Your average weekend player doesn't have those perfect mechanics, so they can't generate that speed through extension and tempo--they have to swing hard.  And I think a golfer's tempo is typically consistent throughout the clubs, so if they swing hard with a 3-wood they're swinging hard with a wedge as well.

I think it's easier to make a 100% swing than it is to make an 85% swing.  And it's really difficult to change that swing from one shot to the next.  (For the sake of metrics, a 100% swing is a standard full swing--I think it's possible to make a 110% swing, if that makes any sense.)

Now, for the Bubbas and Woodlands of the world.  Bubba and GW (and a few others I can think of) really go after the ball, and they do it with all of their clubs.  They can take something off of a wedge because they practice that constantly, but I think those guys are pretty much ripping it every time.  And Bubba is one of those guys who typically hits wedge from like 155.

[Slice of Life]

Whether it's his easy swing or not isn't relevant it's his average and they don't have to guess because the PGA tracks stats. But what I don't get is if the best players in the world aren't trying to nuke it every time why do amateurs do it?

Because amateurs are stupid.

[Meltdwhiskey]

Originally Posted by saevel25

I guess i should vouch for this. I played a round with Jeremie a few Saturday's ago. He is correct, if his contact was better, he would be hitting 280-290 consistently with the driver, and maybe get near 300 if he tweaked out a few extra MPH in the swing.

I'm not sure that is a full vouch.  He said he hits 1-2 per round 300yd - you are saying he could maybe get near 300yd if he tweaked out a few extra MPH.

And 250 is his "at worst" driver?  That is some great golf.

But I'm more interested in the 150yd wedges and even more interested in the 220yd 4i's.   Is that true too?  And a 130yd AW is the " normal " one - not the one he really caught well or when he put in the extra mph's?

If it is - it is.  Obviously I wasn't there and I don't know.  I do know:

1) these sound like pro numbers

2) these are some of the best numbers I remember seeing on this site (which seems to include so much IAD that it has its own thread)

3) these are farther than anyone I ever remember playing with

4) And all from a 22 cap.

It just sounds awfully good for a 22.  I think you can understand a little skepticism here.  If it was me - I wouldn't be offended that people questioned me about it.  I'd rest easy and think to myself, "I so totally bomb the crap out of the ball that no one on the posting board even believes me!"

[Jeremie Boop]

I'm not sure that is a full vouch.  He said he hits 1-2 per round 300yd - you are saying he could maybe get near 300yd if he tweaked out a few extra MPH.

And 250 is his "at worst" driver?  That is some great golf.

But I'm more interested in the 150yd wedges and even more interested in the 220yd 4i's.   Is that true too?  And a 130yd AW is the "normal" one - not the one he really caught well or when he put in the extra mph's?

If it is - it is.  Obviously I wasn't there and I don't know.  I do know:

1) these sound like pro numbers

2) these are some of the best numbers I remember seeing on this site (which seems to include so much IAD that it has its own thread)

3) these are farther than anyone I ever remember playing with

4) And all from a 22 cap.

It just sounds awfully good for a 22.  I think you can understand a little skepticism here.  If it was me - I wouldn't be offended that people questioned me about it.  I'd rest easy and think to myself, "I so totally bomb the crap out of the ball that no one on the posting board even believes me!"

I hit 1 or 2 around 300 a round typically, should say 290+. The day I played with saevel25 I actually had 3 or 4 that distance. Also, take into account that my irons have strong lofts. My AW is 50* loft and slightly longer than normal as they are burner plus irons. It doesn't bother me that people don't believe me when I post my numbers here. I've played with 2 people who both have backed up my length, but also agree that my consistency lacks. I wish there were more people who lived close enough for me to play some rounds with so that they could see I'm not exaggerating. The only thing I could say may be exaggerated would be my worst drives *with driver* being 250, I just don't gps measure those so I do apologize for that. I guess it would be more accurate to say I don't know exactly what I hit my worst drives.

[Slice of Life]

I'm not sure that is a full vouch.  He said he hits 1-2 per round 300yd - you are saying he could maybe get near 300yd if he tweaked out a few extra MPH.

And 250 is his "at worst" driver?  That is some great golf.

But I'm more interested in the 150yd wedges and even more interested in the 220yd 4i's.   Is that true too?  And a 130yd AW is the "normal" one - not the one he really caught well or when he put in the extra mph's?

If it is - it is.  Obviously I wasn't there and I don't know.  I do know:

1) these sound like pro numbers

2) these are some of the best numbers I remember seeing on this site (which seems to include so much IAD that it has its own thread)

3) these are farther than anyone I ever remember playing with

4) And all from a 22 cap.

I'll vouch for Jeremie...

I've personally seen him hit a drive over the 300 yard mark. Right in the middle of the fairway. An absolute bomb. Not downhill, light wind, and normal conditions. It was a short par 4, and he was left with a short pitch to the pin.

Pretty much every one of his drives traveled 250+. However, they were 90% right and left, and most of them were OB or unplayable.

I also told him he was full of it when he said he could hit the green on a 163 yard par 3 with his pitching wedge. I had just hit my 8 iron over the green. He proceeded to nail his pitching wedge pin high. Granted, it was an elevated tee, but you can assume it would have traveled at least 150 if it wasn't.

With that said, that was mixed with (no offense Jeremie, but in the fairness of full disclosure) terrible chipping and pitching, inconsistent irons, and again...mostly unplayable drives. So that could explain the 22 hcp.

[Jeremie Boop]

I'll vouch for Jeremie...

I've personally seen him hit a drive over the 300 yard mark. Right in the middle of the fairway. An absolute bomb. Not downhill, light wind, and normal conditions. It was a short par 4, and he was left with a short pitch to the pin.

Pretty much every one of his drives traveled 250+. However, they were 90% right and left, and most of them were OB or unplayable.

I also told him he was full of it when he said he could hit the green on a 163 yard par 3 with his pitching wedge. I had just hit my 8 iron over the green. He proceeded to nail his pitching wedge pin high. Granted, it was an elevated tee, but you can assume it would have traveled at least 150 if it wasn't.

With that said, that was mixed with (no offense Jeremie, but in the fairness of full disclosure) terrible chipping and pitching, inconsistent irons, and again...mostly unplayable drives. So that could explain the 22 hcp.

Not offended, that is very accurate to how I played. I've no illusions about my consistency. Certain things have improved since that outing, but I've not really focused on much improvement this year, that will start next year.

[Slice of Life]

Not offended, that is very accurate to how I played. I've no illusions about my consistency. Certain things have improved since that outing, but I've not really focused on much improvement this year, that will start next year.

That was about as bad as I've played all year...but it was also in the midst of my swing change. Maybe we can get together for a round before the weather gets too bad. You drive up here and I'll pay for the golf. Haha.

[Jeremie Boop]

That was about as bad as I've played all year...but it was also in the midst of my swing change. Maybe we can get together for a round before the weather gets too bad. You drive up here and I'll pay for the golf. Haha.

You tell me when and I'll drive up there, anytime besides this Saturday as my league outing is that day. Maybe we can talk a couple others into joining also.

[saevel25]

Distance isn't the totality of a person's golf ability.

Just because you don't witness long hitters, doesn't mean they don't exist, i play with 3 guys a week who can hit it 280-300 yards every drive. Just because my distribution of golfers i play with breaks the probability doesn't refute their ability to hit the golf ball that far. Its called life, things are not all nice and neat.

Just because he's a 22 doesn't mean he can't hit the ball that far.

Lets say i tell you a person shoots 22 over. But what if i tell you that person had 7 three putts. What if tell you that person wasted some more shots around the green. So let me ask this, if he didn't waste a couple of shots around the green, and didn't three putt, his handicap would be near a 13. Would you say a 13 handicap could hit it 300 yards?

Again, distance isn't the totality of a person's golf game.

[LocoPatrick]

So, anyone else ever play irons only?

[MS256]

I used to play with only irons, and sometimes only one of them, but only just for fun and just for practice.

One day as we were going to play the daily team game it so happened that I was the only player there that wasn't a senior and didn't hit from the front tees. One of the seniors said I should just play from up there with the rest of them for the day. I told him it wouldn't be fair so I would only hit irons.

All of those guys are an even match for me when they are playing from the up tees and I'm playing from the back but even hitting irons only it was still unfair. I don't think it occurred to them, and I know it didn't occur to me, that the main reason they were normally an even match for me was that I was going to get in trouble off of the tee enough times to always keep them in the game.

Irons only from the same tees that took that one advantage they had out of play (and my 3 iron was longer than their driver anyway).

Even though I won easily I refused to take their money that day.

[Meltdwhiskey]

Distance isn't the totality of a person's golf ability. Just because you don't witness long hitters, doesn't mean they don't exist, i play with 3 guys a week who can hit it 280-300 yards every drive. Just because my distribution of golfers i play with breaks the probability doesn't refute their ability to hit the golf ball that far. Its called life, things are not all nice and neat.

Just because he's a 22 doesn't mean he can't hit the ball that far.

Lets say i tell you a person shoots 22 over. But what if i tell you that person had 7 three putts. What if tell you that person wasted some more shots around the green. So let me ask this, if he didn't waste a couple of shots around the green, and didn't three putt, his handicap would be near a 13. Would you say a 13 handicap could hit it 300 yards?

Again, distance isn't the totality of a person's golf game.

Come on, man - I never said that distance is the totality of someones ability.  I never said that long hitters don't exist.  I never said life is nice and neat.  It just sounded suspect because it is way out of the norm - and it's posted on the Internet. You've got to admit that a 22 cap that hits it the same distance as the pros is pretty rare - especially for a guy who plays all the time.  I'd bet very few 13 caps from your example are that long either.  But I apologize if questioning it offended you.  It just sounded really long.

[saevel25]

Come on, man - I never said that distance is the totality of someones ability.  I never said that long hitters don't exist.  I never said life is nice and neat.  It just sounded suspect because it is way out of the norm - and it's posted on the Internet. You've got to admit that a 22 cap that hits it the same distance as the pros is pretty rare - especially for a guy who plays all the time.  I'd bet very few 13 caps from your example are that long either.  But I apologize if questioning it offended you.  It just sounded really long.

No, i'm not offended. I just find it strange that people have a hard time accepting it. Let me put it to you this way. Here's the stats on some of the guys i play golf with

Player A: HDCP 10, Drive: 290

Player B: HDCP 12, Drive: 295

Player C: HDCP 9, Drive 285

Player D: HDCP 8, Drive 295

Player E: HDCP 15, drive 280

These are 5 guys, 4 of which i play golf weekly with, one i get paired against sparingly if our teams match up in a league night. But i got 5 examples of people who can hit the ball that far. I guess i am a little more accepting of people actually hitting it that far because i witness it weekly.

[nick1998bunker]

No, i'm not offended. I just find it strange that people have a hard time accepting it. Let me put it to you this way. Here's the stats on some of the guys i play golf with Player A: HDCP 10, Drive: 290 Player B: HDCP 12, Drive: 295 Player C: HDCP 9, Drive 285 Player D: HDCP 8, Drive 295 Player E: HDCP 15, drive 280 These are 5 guys, 4 of which i play golf weekly with, one i get paired against sparingly if our teams match up in a league night. But i got 5 examples of people who can hit the ball that far. I guess i am a little more accepting of people actually hitting it that far because i witness it weekly.

All these people on the Internet think that because they can't hit the ball far, you have to be a pro to hit a decent length. Length can have nothing to do with ability. You can get it through brute strength or smash factor or a combination of both.

[MS256]

No, i'm not offended. I just find it strange that people have a hard time accepting it. Let me put it to you this way. Here's the stats on some of the guys i play golf with

Player A: HDCP 10, Drive: 290

Player B: HDCP 12, Drive: 295

Player C: HDCP 9, Drive 285

Player D: HDCP 8, Drive 295

Player E: HDCP 15, drive 280

These are 5 guys, 4 of which i play golf weekly with, one i get paired against sparingly if our teams match up in a league night. But i got 5 examples of people who can hit the ball that far. I guess i am a little more accepting of people actually hitting it that far because i witness it weekly.

You actually know the handicaps and driving distances of the people you play with? I don't know any of the driving distances of the people at our course, other than the handful that can carry the 285 yard par 4, and the handful (me included) that need to get a bounce or two (which almost never happens in that thick grass on that uphill slope).

I do agree with you that a handicap has almost nothing to do with how far somebody can hit a golf ball. Far AND straight AND consistent is another matter. Heck I was longer the first time I ever played than I am now. Problem was that I never knew if it was going to be in the neighborhood of the fairway or in one of the adjoining counties.

[saevel25]

You actually know the handicaps and driving distances of the people you play with? I don't know any of the driving distances of the people at our course, other than the handful that can carry the 285 yard par 4, and the handful (me included) that need to get a bounce or two (which almost never happens in that thick grass on that uphill slope).

I do agree with you that a handicap has almost nothing to do with how far somebody can hit a golf ball. Far AND straight AND consistent is another matter. Heck I was longer the first time I ever played than I am now. Problem was that I never knew if it was going to be in the neighborhood of the fairway or in one of the adjoining counties.

Yea, i don't see how that is to uncommon. I mean, we keep track of our scores weekly, with net and adjusted by the handicap. Its not tough to get how far someone hits the ball. If you play the same course 24 weeks out of the year, for the past 5 years, you can easily reference how far a person hits the ball. The easiest is just take the 1st hole, its a 325 par 4 from the back of the tee box (measured by google, by me, not the score card). There are two bunkers, one infront of the green, and one about 30 yards short. Its not tough to guess distance when they hit there drives in that gap, some times they even catch the front left bunker. Its pretty much auto distance measure right there.

[KyleAnthony]

I actually just started doing this. i replaced my driver with a 2 iron and started playing the holes backwards, trying to leave my approach shots 150-170 yards out, because i do fairly well with my 7, 8, and 9 irons. it has helped me a lot. all i have to do now is work on consistent swing and ball striking. then i hope to be out of the 80's