Playing with a Scratch Golfer - thoughts?

[bkuehn1952]

When I play with very good players who hit the ball a long way, I try to avoid getting sucked into playing the tips with him/them.  I know my game and playing a 7,000+ yard course is not a good idea for me.  If they want to join me on the 6,300-6,700 set of tees, great.  Otherwise, we will play split tees.  In your case, I am sure your friend will be fine with your playing a different tee or will join you "Teeing it Forward".

If I am going to play for some $$ with an excellent player, I expect the stakes to be low and an appropriate handicap to be negotiated.  Low handicappers who take the position that they only play straight up won't get any of my money because I am not a fool.  Your scratch friend won't want to take advantage of you so maybe play a full handicapped match play game with $1.00 riding on the first nine, second and totals.  A small wager and giving you lots of strokes will help your buddy keep his attention on the golf.

Finally, I watch good player's short game work.  I can't hope to emulate their full swing without a lot of lessons and practice.  I can, however, learn from some of their techniques around the green as well as their thought processes.  Why did he hit a low runner there, how did he get the ball to pop out of that lie, etc...are good questions to ask after the round.

[colin007]

I think it is tougher for a scratch golfer to play with a high-handicap than the other way around. The reasoning being, scratch golfers are use to a faster pace of their own play because they hit less shots. This isn't the case for a high handicapper because he is stuck hitting more shots, so he has less time actually just waiting to hit a shot. I've played with some high handicappers were it would be 2-3 shots for every shot I take. That can seriously throw a better player off their game.

i'm a high hcp player and no scratch golfer is going to be waiting for me.  with all my bad shots i still expect to play in 3-3.5 hrs.

[Truegolf]

You play with a scratch golfer everyday There is a scratch player in you It's just that your mind gets in your way. Scores go up cause people get too over mechanical. Too mad. Too hestistant. Too critical of themselves. Sometimes you have to think of yourself in the third party and just let self 1 go and play golf. That the scratch player you play with every time you tee it up He is in you

[MiniBlueDragon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saevel25

I think it is tougher for a scratch golfer to play with a high-handicap than the other way around. The reasoning being, scratch golfers are use to a faster pace of their own play because they hit less shots. This isn't the case for a high handicapper because he is stuck hitting more shots, so he has less time actually just waiting to hit a shot. I've played with some high handicappers were it would be 2-3 shots for every shot I take. That can seriously throw a better player off their game.

i'm a high hcp player and no scratch golfer is going to be waiting for me.  with all my bad shots i still expect to play in 3-3.5 hrs.

A handicap of 11 isn't what I'd class as "high" to be honest; when I think "high" I think 20+ personally (low 0-9, medium 10-20)

I also agree with it being tough on better players which is why despite him being a mate I never play rounds with my golf coach; he plays off +2 so we'd spend more time looking for my errant balls and watching me duff shots than "playing".

[Phil McGleno]

Scores go up cause their swing sucks and they end up hitting the ball all over the place.-You and @xerex250 would get along nicely.[quote name="Truegolf" url="/t/71567/playing-with-a-scratch-golfer-thoughts/18#post_930644"]You play with a scratch golfer everyday There is a scratch player in you It's just that your mind gets in your way. Scores go up cause people get too over mechanical. Too mad. Too hestistant. Too critical of themselves. Sometimes you have to think of yourself in the third party and just let self 1 go and play golf. That the scratch player you play with every time you tee it up He is in you[/quote]

[David in FL]

You play with a scratch golfer everyday

There is a scratch player in you

It's just that your mind gets in your way.

Scores go up cause people get too over mechanical. Too mad. Too hestistant. Too critical of themselves.

Sometimes you have to think of yourself in the third party and just let self 1 go and play golf.

That the scratch player you play with every time you tee it up He is in you

I guess that there's also a world class tennis player, an Olympic caliber downhill skier, and a Nobel Laureate in me too.  They just all need to be encouraged to come out and play.....

....the lazy bastards!

A handicap of 11 isn't what I'd class as "high" to be honest; when I think "high" I think 20+ personally (low 0-9, medium 10-20)

I also agree with it being tough on better players which is why despite him being a mate I never play rounds with my golf coach; he plays off +2 so we'd spend more time looking for my errant balls and watching me duff shots than "playing".

True, but Colin's point is still spot on.  Any player, whether low, mid, or high hcp with a sense of urgency can and should be able to keep up.  There are too many players, both low and high hcp that can't.  I'll play any day with the 30 hcp player who keeps up, but I'll avoid the better player who thinks 4.5+ hours is a decent pace like the plague!

[MiniBlueDragon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

A handicap of 11 isn't what I'd class as "high" to be honest; when I think "high" I think 20+ personally (low 0-9, medium 10-20)

I also agree with it being tough on better players which is why despite him being a mate I never play rounds with my golf coach; he plays off +2 so we'd spend more time looking for my errant balls and watching me duff shots than "playing".

True, but Colin's point is still spot on.  Any player, whether low, mid, or high hcp with a sense of urgency can and should be able to keep up.  There are too many players, both low and high hcp that can't.  I'll play any day with the 30 hcp player who keeps up, but I'll avoid the better player who thinks 4.5+ hours is a decent pace like the plague!

Sorry, I should have clarified; what I meant was assuming every person is hurrying as fast as they can hurry. :)

Even assuming a conservative extra minute per shot for a higher handicapper to walk toward, locate and hit his ball that's an immediate half an hour on top of the normal time for the scratch player hurrying at the same pace.

Add to that time looking for lost balls, wasting time going back and forth between club choices (like 10 yards will make or break a high handicapper round. lol), several hacks out of sand/rough and it all adds up much to the detriment of the better player I'd say.

[geauxforbroke]

I'm not a scratch golfer; no where close. But I do play a lot with co-workers that are high handicappers (20+). I think the thing that bothers me most is when I hit a shot, and they're yelling "get up" or "bite!". Only I can persuade my golf ball to modify its flight for the optimal outcome.

In all seriousness, my advice would be to observe everything they do from reading putts to how they tee the ball up. I learn new things every time I play with someone new. Don't be afraid to ask questions if it's someone you're comfortable with. Maybe if they hit a pitch shot differently than you would, ask them why they chose that particular shot. Just be careful not to come across as condescending. If your playing partner is a friend, then I'd say you're probably safe to quiz him a little.

[MS256]

Sorry, I should have clarified; what I meant was assuming every person is hurrying as fast as they can hurry. :)

Even assuming a conservative extra minute per shot for a higher handicapper to walk toward, locate and hit his ball that's an immediate half an hour on top of the normal time for the scratch player hurrying at the same pace.

Add to that time looking for lost balls, wasting time going back and forth between club choices (like 10 yards will make or break a high handicapper round. lol), several hacks out of sand/rough and it all adds up much to the detriment of the better player I'd say.

Yep. Most of the really good players I know have no desire to play with people that can't keep the ball in play. It's not so much about a handicap as it is keeping the ball in play.

My wife shoots over 100 but hits everything in the fairway (albeit very short) and is decent on and around the greens. She doesn't slow a group down any more than almost anybody else. Basically hits the ball and stays on a steady pace down the fairway but takes too many shots to get there.

On the other hand when I first started playing I would have been a nightmare to play with if I played out every stroke on every hole. I would make a few birdies or even an eagle but the rest of the time my ball was in the woods somewhere in another county.

All it took for me to make a really good score on a hole was to hit two great shots in a row but that only happened a few times a round.

[Wardy]

The last scratch golfer I was paired with in my monthly medal last month. He shot a 68 (-4) and he's only 19 as well! In contrast, I shot a 97 that day, but he wasn't bothered at all by that.. they just tend to focus on their own scores.

At my club, all the good players are really friendly and helpful and give you tips when going round as well.

[GolfGuy123]

Glad to see so much action on this thread...I personally love playing with scratch / single digit handicap players...however I am very mindful to the situation, depending on the personality of the other player which is usually pretty easy to pick up on after 1-2 holes...

If I hit my tee shot OB, I dont hit a second shot (I either pick up  on the hole or drop from where the other players are hitting their second shot), I always ask if they would like me to putt out if im closer to the hole to get out of their way and maybe let them see the break, if I chunk a bunker shot or send it sailing over the green I immediately pick up and am out the hole, I also never spend more than 30 seconds looking for my ball, I may drive over to the area where I think it could have stayed in bounds but if I dont see it almost immediately I just hit a second from their spot or am out the hole...HOWEVER I have also played rounds with scratch golfers where NONE of this applies and they are very patiend and tell me not to worry (go head and hit a second tee shot, spend a minute or two finding your ball etc.) it all really depends on the personality of the player which like I mentioned, you can usually tell after 1-2 holes or it might be someone you already know...

I played 9 holes with a scratch player and we were on a par 3 thats similar to 17 at TPC, 155 yard island green. I hit my first shot in the water (obviously) and immediately started walking back to the cart with no intention on hitting another shot...The scratch player said "hey, give it another shot, go head" - long story short he wanted to see me make the green and encouraged me to take as many shots as it took...(it took 4, ugh). I thought it was super cool of him, I could tell he could see how frustrated / nervous I was about the shot but wanted me to overcome it...I know many players arent that patient, there was no one playing behind us too - which obviously helped.

[MS256]

Yep. Most of the really good players I know have no desire to play with people that can't keep the ball in play. It's not so much about a handicap as it is keeping the ball in play.

My wife shoots over 100 but hits everything in the fairway (albeit very short) and is decent on and around the greens. She doesn't slow a group down any more than almost anybody else. Basically hits the ball and stays on a steady pace down the fairway but takes too many shots to get there.

On the other hand when I first started playing I would have been a nightmare to play with if I played out every stroke on every hole. I would make a few birdies or even an eagle but the rest of the time my ball was in the woods somewhere in another county.

All it took for me to make a really good score on a hole was to hit two great shots in a row but that only happened a few times a round.

I should clarify one thing. Those good players I know would rarely ever let you know, by either their actions or anything they would say, that they didn't enjoy playing with you. They just simply wouldn't be calling you up to play another round and you would consistently be picked for the team games at a slot below your skill level.

There are guys in our weekly team game that are always picked sooner than their skill level would suggest because they are fun to play with, and also guys that are chosen last just because nobody wants to play with them because they are either "irritating guy" or "can't keep the ball in play guy". Not good when 5 captains are fighting about who has to take somebody for the last pick (and the guy doesn't even know it or have a clue).

[flopster]

Glad to see so much action on this thread...I personally love playing with scratch / single digit handicap players...however I am very mindful to the situation, depending on the personality of the other player which is usually pretty easy to pick up on after 1-2 holes...

If I hit my tee shot OB, I dont hit a second shot (I either pick up  on the hole or drop from where the other players are hitting their second shot), I always ask if they would like me to putt out if im closer to the hole to get out of their way and maybe let them see the break, if I chunk a bunker shot or send it sailing over the green I immediately pick up and am out the hole, I also never spend more than 30 seconds looking for my ball, I may drive over to the area where I think it could have stayed in bounds but if I dont see it almost immediately I just hit a second from their spot or am out the hole...HOWEVER I have also played rounds with scratch golfers where NONE of this applies and they are very patiend and tell me not to worry (go head and hit a second tee shot, spend a minute or two finding your ball etc.) it all really depends on the personality of the player which like I mentioned, you can usually tell after 1-2 holes or it might be someone you already know...

I played 9 holes with a scratch player and we were on a par 3 thats similar to 17 at TPC, 155 yard island green. I hit my first shot in the water (obviously) and immediately started walking back to the cart with no intention on hitting another shot...The scratch player said "hey, give it another shot, go head" - long story short he wanted to see me make the green and encouraged me to take as many shots as it took...(it took 4, ugh). I thought it was super cool of him, I could tell he could see how frustrated / nervous I was about the shot but wanted me to overcome it...I know many players arent that patient, there was no one playing behind us too - which obviously helped.

It's nice of you to be so aware of not "holding up" play but other players no matter how good they are should be patient, I do appreciate that you will just pick up when you reach a certain number around the green (ESC)but I see no problem with hitting a provisional no matter who your with, believe me they will hit a provisional and look for the full 5 minutes when a ball can't be found so why shouldn't you as long as pace is being maintained, your score is just as important to you as theirs is to them.

[jsgolfer]

You'll get a lot of advice, but here's one that you might not get.

Be a little (or a lot) more hesitant to say "good shot" than you normally would. Sometimes poorer players will say "good shot" when I thin a wedge that hits into a tier and happens to grab and wind up close, but it was a lucky shot, not a good shot. I've learned to not let it bug me, but it used to, and I know some good players who get quite irked by that kind of stuff.

Look at his reaction and if he seems pleased, offer up a nice quiet "shot" (usually people don't say "good" at the better player level :D). Don't go over the top, just a restrained "shot" will be good.

Aside from that, just play golf. You'll be fine.

I so totally agree with you.

[rkim291968]

I would not recognize a scratch golfer if I play with one.   I tend to focus on my game.  Sure, I will chat, joke around with players I've matched up.   But I would not be paying attention to how good they are, or ask what their handicap is, or what they scored on #3 hole, etc..    This may be why I don't remember playing with a scratch golfer.

Although I am a high handicapper, I play at fast pace so I won't be slowing anyone down.

[Foursum Golf]

I wouldn't worry about it.

I have played with scratch golfers and even one "+" handicapped golfer.

I find that it really depends on the individual's personality.

If they are temperament as a person then it is likely this will be reflected on the golf course.

The "+" handicapper that I played with used to be a golf pro but then he couldn't make enough money at it so went into the insurance business and he was very successful at it.

He joined us at the white tees and really went out of his way to make sure we were all having fun. I think because of his sales background (selling life insurance) he has played with a LOT of high handicappers and he is used to playing with them.

In that round it was actually the 4 handicapper that was a real grump because he was playing more like a 14 handicapper.

It wasn't till after the round that I realized he shot 2 under par. You really couldn't tell how good he was playing on the course. I mean I knew he did not get into any trouble but he wasn't a particularly long hitter and he just went about his business very quietly. Over beers he did confess that he really wanted to break 70 cause he hadn't done that on this course for many years.

He went out of his way to help us look for balls and it wasn't till the last four or five holes when he had a pretty good read on us that he offered up some much appreciated hints to me.

Off topic but he and I happened to both use the same irons (Ping G25's). I asked him why he was using a non players set of irons and he said it was because he doesn't have enough time to practice and they were very forgiving.

It was the 4 handicapper that was trying to crush the ball and was mad when the ball didn't spin back on the greens. The "+" guy just drove every ball in the fairway and hit most of his second shots on the green. When he did miss the green he always managed a up and down.

If you buddy is a good guy off the course it is very likely that he will be a great guy on the course and he will ensure that you will have fun.

This is what I notice when I play with scratch golfers too. I'm too focused on my own score to realize how well the others are playing.

[DoubleEagle]

Being a higher handicapper, I really hate it when I show up as a single and get put into a group teeing off.  I usually ask if they are very good, if they are playing for money (I do not play for money), and how they feel about an "outsider" joining their  threesome.  Sometimes after the front nine, I just head for the parking lot....

I am very uncomfortable playing with much better golfers...I have this fear that I will bring them down to my level after about 4 holes.

[GolfGuy123]

hmmm...so it sounds like im one of the only high handicappers who enjoys and sees the huge benefit in playing with a scratch / low handicap player? in my experience, my rounds with great players have been just as good if not better than taking actual lessons with a pro...and thats just by observing and maybe asking 1-2 questions after the round is over.

call me crazy, but in my opinion us high handicappers should relish in the opportunity of playing with skilled golfers.

I understand your main focus should always be on your own game, your own score etc., and its not about asking or keeping track of someone else's score...to me its more about recognizing im paired with someone much better than me who I can learn from whether it be directly or indirectly.