My Swing (Dr Draw)

[iacas]

Thanks bro. Yeah I understand the advice that he's given me won't help me overnight it's just this frustrating feeling that I can hit balls without hoping that I won't shank it and almost hit the guys further down the range. It's irritating. I can deal with hitting fat shots or thin shots within every 5 but shanks are the most annoying and discouraging miss hits in the world, and it almost feels like they are chronic lol.

Dude, then STOP SHANKING THE BALL.

Now, let me expand on what I mean by that - even though I believe I said things like this in the "5S of Effective Practice" thread - If you shank at an 80% swing, why not try a 60% swing? Both speed and length? If you shank at that, why try anything faster? Why not try 50%? 40%? Why keep practicing FAILING?

Your practice swing video was at 80% speed or so, and full backswing length. WHY?

I get that it's frustrating. But practice effectively and correctly and it won't be. It makes absolutely no sense to practice at a level where you fail more often than you succeed.

You get the sweet spot well outside the golf ball. You come over the top and when you don't pull the sweet spot in fast enough, you don't pull the hosel in fast enough, and blammo, you shank. It's as simple as that… so just STOP SHANKING THE BALL.

And the context is above. Practice at a level (speed, length) where you hit solid shots and make good - CHANGED - motions. Practice SUCCESS, not failure.

[Dr Draw]

Dude, then STOP SHANKING THE BALL. Now, let me expand on what I mean by that - even though I believe I said things like this in the "5S of Effective Practice" thread - If you shank at an 80% swing, why not try a 60% swing? Both speed and length? If you shank at that, why try anything faster? Why not try 50%? 40%? Why keep practicing FAILING? Your practice swing video was at 80% speed or so, and full backswing length. WHY? I get that it's frustrating. But practice effectively and correctly and it won't be. It makes absolutely no sense to practice at a level where you fail more often than you succeed. You get the sweet spot well outside the golf ball. You come over the top and when you don't pull the sweet spot in fast enough, you don't pull the hosel in fast enough, and blammo, you shank. It's as simple as that… so just STOP SHANKING THE BALL. And the context is above. Practice at a level (speed, length) where you hit solid shots and make good - CHANGED - motions. Practice SUCCESS, not failure.

That's weird, it felt a lot less when I was doing it. Anyway, yeah I get what you're saying, I gotta stop trying to hit the ball so hard. So far, in my swing, what have you been noticing that would cause my shanks? You said something about my club head being well in front of my hands? Should I work on getting the club head coming more inside to out (or at least that's what it should feel like)? Thanks for the help. I agrees with everything you're saying, it's really tough though when you start hitting it well and then you want to hit it a little harder. Gotta work on that. Thanks man

[cipher]

@Dr Draw , What I would suggest is getting comfortable with the shanks.  It could be a little bit, I mean this in a positive way.  Keep working on it and grind it out, but learn to be patient.  I know it is frustrating.  I have have had the same tendency to move my center towards the ball in the down swing even still.  I used to throw the club outside my hands as well.  I fought the shanks for years.  I started working with some of the guys kind enough to try and help you here and they went away quick enough.  Even after, I did not take full swings practicing or on the course for months until I felt the bad habits were out of my system.

This should probably embarrass me but I don't really care.  Look at my shank swings here from a couple years ago before I started working on things:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/65114/my-swing-cipher/306#post_911771

Pretty ugly, but it is a bit different now. ;)  You will get through it, if you stay patient, listen and keep at it until the results start changing.  I tried to treat my frustration with humor as well, and that seemed to help.  You literally have two extremely knowledgeable instructors posting here, helping you for free.  You are lucky, don't waste the advice.  Best wishes.

[Dr Draw]

Alright well I have an update. I have been working on it and trying to figure things out and what I found was that I was not transferring my weight properly. I was mindlessly transferring it wherever to fix my shanks but what I forgot was to try to be very specific on where I transfer it. I found it works best for me when I transfer it from the right heel to my left big toe (if that's not already what I should be doing lol). It helps me become more stable throughout my swing and balance better. Thanks for all your help guys, and if you still see something in my previous videos that I should work on, please let me know.

[Dr Draw]

Here is another video of my swing:

This one was a top as you can see and it was one of those where the club twisted at impact in my left hand pretty significantly and really hurt my hand. I've already got a couple pretty bad blisters from this. Anyway, I've been working on set up and being a little more stable throughout impact and things like that so... yup.

[billchao]

Here is another video of my swing:

This one was a top as you can see and it was one of those where the club twisted at impact in my left hand pretty significantly and really hurt my hand. I've already got a couple pretty bad blisters from this. Anyway, I've been working on set up and being a little more stable throughout impact and things like that so... yup.

Your setup has definitely improved. I used to have the "S" curve in my back too, and trust me, it would be a matter of when, not if, you hurt yourself.

I still see the clubhead outside the ball and you're still hitting it out to in. Why don't you try filming some swings at 50%? What I learned when I did the same thing is that I wasn't really making the changes properly. Heck, I wasn't even really swinging at 50%, it felt like 50%, but it was more like 80%. Once I learned that I wasn't really doing the drills correctly, I was able to finally make adjustments and improve. Hope that helps.

[Ernest Jones]

I'm sure this has been mentioned before but you might want to flare your feet out more and let your trail leg straighten on the backswing so you can turn on more of an incline. Your feet almost look like they are pinched in a bit.

[Dr Draw]

Another update:

I've been thinking about your comments and pieces of advice and I can't believe I missed something so simple. I've been really coming over the top lately causing the shanks, as you guys have told me time and time again. In this video I worked on feeling more lose, as if the club head was coming more from the inside like I was going to hit a hook, and the way the ball came off the club was an instant improvement and really a good feeling. So much better and it feels more consistent. Here's one of the videos so if you see anything else let me know. Thanks again

[Dr Draw]

I've been Playing Golf for: about 8 months

My current handicap index or average score is: 15

My typical ball flight is: draw

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: shank occasionally

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Videos:

[mvmac]

First off, please don't start a new thread for your swing, just continue to post in this one, thanks.

Earlier swings had a problem with the club head kicking well outside the hands on the downswing, the alignment of the shaft on the backswing won't help, way too shallow. Most good players are more shallow on the downswing than they are on the backswing. If you were to go more shallow on the downswing, you might miss the ball. So you have to steepen it coming down in an effort to line up the sweetspot. It's requires a lot of timing and when it doesn't line up, when the sweetspot gets outside the hands and you can't compensate fast enough, you don't pull the hosel in fast enough, you shank it.

So I would make slow swings, like 50% speed, with you feeling like you don't rotate your left forearm to help the shaft "stand up" on the backswing. Arms will still gain depth but you're not going to let the shaft load on such a flat angle. This will give you the "instinct" to shallow it out on the downswing. Might be other pieces to work on to fix the piece for good but I would tackle this first.

Easy visual to use, stand the shaft up like you're holding an umbrella. McIlroy on the right would be dry, you'd be getting wet.

[Abu3baid]

Easy visual to use, stand the shaft up like you're holding an umbrella. McIlroy on the right would be dry, you'd be getting wet.

Nice visual!!

[Dr Draw]

That makes sense. Thank you for your help. Do you also think that is could have something to do with my shoulder turn? Like I could be turning too flat causing a flat club path? If that's so then how can I exercise turning my shoulders properly? Someone told me that what was causing my shanks was that I wasn't turning properly and that I was leaning toward the target at the top of my back swing, thus not getting the clubhead in fast enough. So I then tried getting my right shoulder and feeling like I was turning it back and replacing it with my left shoulder. This seems like it's making my shoulder turn too flat. What do you think? Also do you see anything in my swing that could be causing the wrist pain on my left wrist on the right side of that wrist? It's been getting worse over time. Sorry about posting in a new thread, by the way

[mvmac]

That makes sense. Thank you for your help. Do you also think that is could have something to do with my shoulder turn? Like I could be turning too flat causing a flat club path? If that's so then how can I exercise turning my shoulders properly? Someone told me that what was causing my shanks was that I wasn't turning properly and that I was leaning toward the target at the top of my back swing, thus not getting the clubhead in fast enough. So I then tried getting my right shoulder and feeling like I was turning it back and replacing it with my left shoulder. This seems like it's making my shoulder turn too flat. What do you think?

Looks good to me. General measurement is that the shoulders turn at a right angle to the address inclination. The head does go a little forward, towards the ball, but I think that's more of an effect with the way the club loads and the right knee staying too much in it's address flex. Wouldn't call this a "flat" shoulder turn.

[Dr Draw]

Looks good to me. General measurement is that the shoulders turn at a right angle to the address inclination. The head does go a little forward, towards the ball, but I think that's more of an effect with the way the club loads and the right knee staying too much in it's address flex. Wouldn't call this a "flat" shoulder turn.

Hmm. That's weird. I feel like when I try to make that move like I'm pulling the right shoulder back, that I'm pulling the club with me around my body way to much in a very flat plane. I'm not sure how to compensate for it. What's the feeling I'm supposed to have when I'm putting the club on plane? I also feel like when I really try to hinge the club it is in an extremely closed position when going up, and I watch guys like Rory, Tiger, etc. and they're clubhead always stays just a tad closed then opens up by halfway on the backswing. Mine stays closed all the way through and produced a massive, nasty hook.

[mvmac]

Hmm. That's weird. I feel like when I try to make that move like I'm pulling the right shoulder back, that I'm pulling the club with me around my body way to much in a very flat plane. I'm not sure how to compensate for it. What's the feeling I'm supposed to have when I'm putting the club on plane? I also feel like when I really try to hinge the club it is in an extremely closed position when going up, and I watch guys like Rory, Tiger, etc. and they're clubhead always stays just a tad closed then opens up by halfway on the backswing. Mine stays closed all the way through and produced a massive, nasty hook.

Feels vary from player to player. Players have different issues, there isn't one feel that works for everyone.

For you because the club loads so shallow, "on plane" will feel much steeper and like you're not rotating your forearms. G oing from rolling the forearms to not rolling the forearms is going make the club feel more closed.

I think you're worrying too much about the consequences of the way it's feeling. Feel isn't real, confirm things by seeing what is happening on video. And it should feel like crap at first, means you're making the picture change.

[Dr Draw]

Feels vary from player to player. Players have different issues, there isn't one feel that works for everyone.

For you because the club loads so shallow, "on plane" will feel much steeper and like you're not rotating your forearms. Going from rolling the forearms to not rolling the forearms is going make the club feel more closed.

I think you're worrying too much about the consequences of the way it's feeling. Feel isn't real, confirm things by seeing what is happening on video. And it should feel like crap at first, means you're making the picture change.

Good point. Are you an advocate of the way that the wrists should hinge on the backswing like you're hammering something down? I've heard that a lot of places and also others that have said that's not a good idea.

[mvmac]

Good point. Are you an advocate of the way that the wrists should hinge on the backswing like you're hammering something down? I've heard that a lot of places and also others that have said that's not a good idea.

Again it depends on the player's needs. Wrists move up and down and they also move side to side. The way the wrists load and unload can be effected by other pieces: grip, posture, weight location, sequencing/pacing of the pivot. Sometimes the player just needs to hinge the club up more.

Sometimes it doesn't matter. There are players on the PGA Tour that don't have perfect blends of hinging and bending. If it's a priority piece, work on it , if it's not, don't worry about it.

We use a hammer analogy for Key #4 but that's more of how the sweetspot travels and to illustrate that everyone "instinctively" knows how to move a weight on a stick up and down a diagonal plane line.

[Dr Draw]

Is this better?