Is Golf a Sport or a Game?

[zipazoid]

First off, the disclaimer: I didn't read all 17 pages of this thread. This is my first post in it, some of this may have already been said.

In another site I frequent geared towards a pro football team, I tossed out the question - Are pro golfers athletes?

The answers from those site members were a resounding no. To them, the absence of running, jumping & hitting excluded golfers from being athletes. I thought that to be quite a narrow definition.

I see some here are using the term 'athletic move' & that golf lacks that, therefore golfers aren't athletic.

Okay, so there's all that. Now my take -

Tell Ken Venturi he wasn't an athlete & golf isn't a sport after he damn near passed out from exhaustion at the 1964 US Open. Tell Bobby Jones (if he were alive) that those 15 pounds he would lose per event meant he wasn't an athlete or golf wasn't a sport.

The way I look at it, if you haven't played golf competitively, which I have, you really cannot weigh in on this. I can tell you that my preparation to play in amateur events were every bit as "athletic" as is in other sports. No, I did not fear having my head getting rattled by a hit or did I have the risk of shredding my Achilles tendon. So? Is that what the deciding factor should be? Risk of injury?

Golf is, without a doubt, a sport. And professional golfers are, without a doubt, athletes. If they weren't, then why aren't more doing it for a living? If it didn't require athleticism, what is keeping the average Joe out there from investing some time & going out and excelling at it?

The answer is, because the average Joe is not an athlete. Pro golfers are.

[jamo]

The answer is, because the average Joe is not an athlete. Pro golfers are.

Good point. Just as playing on your local softball team is different than starting in right field in the majors, weekend warriors aren't exactly Tour pros.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Well, not exactly.  CC throwing the ball with accuracy requires skill ... but throwing it 95 mph is all about athleticism.  In my opinion, a skill is something that takes talent and practice, and athleticism is all about speed, strength, power, and the like.  He certainly has both.

Golfers as well.  You need strength, speed (not running speed, duh), quickness, etc along with skill to perform it well.

Partly the reason why I said I disagreed on the CC thing. With that said, I would hazard that the strongest man in the world wouldn't be able to throw a 95 mph fastball.

On golfers, I've already given my fair share on that. Suffice to say, that seems to be a very superficial look at the thing.

[Infamous 273]

another point to this is argument is the fact that matt kuchar would've probably been top 50 in the ATP rankings had he not chosen golf.  i'm not trying to over simplify things, but does this mean tennis professionals aren't athletes, or tennis isn't a sport???

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by jamo

Good point. Just as playing on your local softball team is different than starting in right field in the majors, weekend warriors aren't exactly Tour pros.

Right, and that's why, imo, a lot of people don't think pro golfers are athletes - "How tough is it? I play every weekend."

Well yeah, you may be hacking it around, shooting your 107. We're talking about professional golfers though. Just cuz you can swing a golf club doesn't mean those that swing a club for a living aren't athletes. If I go throw a football on a spiral for 20 yards, does than mean Tom Brady isn't an athlete? Of course not.

[tiger187126]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Right, and that's why, imo, a lot of people don't think pro golfers are athletes - "How tough is it? I play every weekend."

Well yeah, you may be hacking it around, shooting your 107. We're talking about professional golfers though. Just cuz you can swing a golf club doesn't mean those that swing a club for a living aren't athletes. If I go throw a football on a spiral for 20 yards, does than mean Tom Brady isn't an athlete? Of course not.

what's funny when we cross sports lines is a lot of guys who are athletes can excel at a sport of their choosing.

how about lebron james a tight end? i think that would have worked out just fine.

when it comes to golf you can see arm talent athletes with the ability to do multiple things well.

i have a buddy who pitched college baseball and could hit 90. he can also throw a football 60+ yards and hit a driver 300+ yards. i'm sure if i handed him a hockey stick he could rip off a mean one timer.

it may not be identical, but the athleticism involved is very similar. if he spent as much time in golf training as baseball training i'm sure he could be good.

the truth is not a lot of young athletes see golf as a viable future that they might see in basketball or football. baseball constantly bemoans losing players to more exciting sports.

the public perception that golf is not a sport is based off a few things:

1) i can do it so it's not a sport. (this is just silly because people can also throw a baseball, but it doesn't get them into the MLB)

2) look at guys like daly a few years ago. (there are guys in a lot of sports that look out of place or "unathletic," but just because a guy like oliver miller plays in the NBA doesn't mean that it doesn't take athleticism to play)

3) the race issue. (as bryant gumbel told us about the winter olympics, a lack of black players makes your sport look less athletic. to the casual observer, golf has always been played by middle aged and older white guys and all it took was one black kid to try it and he became the greatest of all time.)

between these three things lies the argument against golf as a sport. they are obviously flawed, but people who don't think golf is a sport and honestly don't care to look at it any other way than their uninformed opinion will simply spit one of these lines out and move on.

obviously there are exemptions and some people have given it a lot of thought, but i would be willing to bet that the majority of people would fall into one of these three catagories.

[inthehole]

tiddly winks is a game.   golf is a sport

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Tell Ken Venturi he wasn't an athlete & golf isn't a sport after he damn near passed out from exhaustion at the 1964 US Open.

Why did he almost pass out from exhaustion?

Brandon

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by tiger187126

what's funny when we cross sports lines is a lot of guys who are athletes can excel at a sport of their choosing.

how about lebron james a tight end? i think that would have worked out just fine.

when it comes to golf you can see arm talent athletes with the ability to do multiple things well.

i have a buddy who pitched college baseball and could hit 90. he can also throw a football 60+ yards and hit a driver 300+ yards. i'm sure if i handed him a hockey stick he could rip off a mean one timer.

it may not be identical, but the athleticism involved is very similar. if he spent as much time in golf training as baseball training i'm sure he could be good.

the truth is not a lot of young athletes see golf as a viable future that they might see in basketball or football. baseball constantly bemoans losing players to more exciting sports.

the public perception that golf is not a sport is based off a few things:

1) i can do it so it's not a sport. (this is just silly because people can also throw a baseball, but it doesn't get them into the MLB)

2) look at guys like daly a few years ago. (there are guys in a lot of sports that look out of place or "unathletic," but just because a guy like oliver miller plays in the NBA doesn't mean that it doesn't take athleticism to play)

3) the race issue. (as bryant gumbel told us about the winter olympics, a lack of black players makes your sport look less athletic. to the casual observer, golf has always been played by middle aged and older white guys and all it took was one black kid to try it and he became the greatest of all time.)

between these three things lies the argument against golf as a sport. they are obviously flawed, but people who don't think golf is a sport and honestly don't care to look at it any other way than their uninformed opinion will simply spit one of these lines out and move on.

obviously there are exemptions and some people have given it a lot of thought, but i would be willing to bet that the majority of people would fall into one of these three catagories.

That's crap.

http://golf.procon.org/

I post this already though.

[Alvin Tsang]

It is a sport. It requires good physical coordination, strength and fitness to play well.

Sure, to play it badly, one does not need to be athletic. But that is true of any sport. One can be a couch potato and play soccer very poorly by not running very much, hardly passing and participating very little in the game.

[inthehole]

Here's the best definition I can come up with ... a game can be played from a chair.    A sport requires exacting physical movement and can't be played from a chair (I consider billiards (at high levels, pool is the only sport I know of that requires greater hand eye coordination than golf), bocce ball, trap shooting, bowling, curling, etc to all be SPORTS).     It makes absolutely NO difference if you are a highly conitioned athlete with 6% body fat to be considered a sport - its about controlling your body and doing something physical that requires great dexterity to do well.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Infamous 273

another point to this is argument is the fact that matt kuchar would've probably been top 50 in the ATP rankings had he not chosen golf.  i'm not trying to over simplify things, but does this mean tennis professionals aren't athletes, or tennis isn't a sport???

That's a bold statement. Obviously he chose the easier (physically) route so why would anyone think he'd make it? It's not quite like saying Joe Louis would surely have beaten Ben Hogan at golf if he hadn't spent his prime athletic years in the boxing ring, but it's close.

Originally Posted by inthehole

Here's the best definition I can come up with ... a game can be played from a chair.    A sport requires exacting physical movement and can't be played from a chair (I consider billiards (at high levels, pool is the only sport I know of that requires greater hand eye coordination than golf), bocce ball, trap shooting, bowling, curling, etc to all be SPORTS).     It makes absolutely NO difference if you are a highly conitioned athlete with 6% body fat to be considered a sport - its about controlling your body and doing something physical that requires great dexterity to do well.

The chair thing could be used to prove golf is not a sport. Personally though, having a standing participant does not make a game a sport or vise versa.

[Jimdangles]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

That's a bold statement. Obviously he chose the easier (physically) route so why would anyone think he'd make it? It's not quite like saying Joe Louis would surely have beaten Ben Hogan at golf if he hadn't spent his prime athletic years in the boxing ring, but it's close.

The chair thing could be used to prove golf is not a sport. Personally though, having a standing participant does not make a game a sport or vise versa.

Also to be pointed out that in almost every sport there is a bench that you sit on between shifts and/or shots. Golf is played standing up but you sit between shots. Hockey players usually only get 14-20 minutes of ice time per 60 minute game and those are the good players ice times. that means between 40 and 45 minutes are spent sitting down on the bench.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Jimdangles

Also to be pointed out that in almost every sport there is a bench that you sit on between shifts and/or shots. Golf is played standing up but you sit between shots. Hockey players usually only get 14-20 minutes of ice time per 60 minute game and those are the good players ice times. that means between 40 and 45 minutes are spent sitting down on the bench.

Everyone's experience is slightly different, but when I play golf the time between shots is spent standing or walking, or sometimes jogging if I dropped something or have to go back and re-tee. Some sports can't use sitting as a factor since with a big enough roster, many of the players never even see the court or playing field.

[Infamous 273]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

That's a bold statement. Obviously he chose the easier (physically) route so why would anyone think he'd make it? It's not quite like saying Joe Louis would surely have beaten Ben Hogan at golf if he hadn't spent his prime athletic years in the boxing ring, but it's close.

i was being a bit of a sensationalist with that post, yes, but i think you can agree that my meaning was nowhere close to the inference you provided.  implying a golfer could have had a career as a top 50 tennis professional isn't even in the same galaxy, much less the same universe as saying one of the greatest boxers of all time would've beaten one of the greatest golfers of all time had he chosen to pursue golf as a career.  now, if i would have said matt kuchar would've been greater than roger federer had he chosen golf, then i could see where you are coming from.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Infamous 273

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

That's a bold statement. Obviously he chose the easier (physically) route so why would anyone think he'd make it? It's not quite like saying Joe Louis would surely have beaten Ben Hogan at golf if he hadn't spent his prime athletic years in the boxing ring, but it's close.

i was being a bit of a sensationalist with that post, yes, but i think you can agree that my meaning was nowhere close to the inference you provided.  implying a golfer could have had a career as a top 50 tennis professional isn't even in the same galaxy, much less the same universe as saying one of the greatest boxers of all time would've beaten one of the greatest golfers of all time had he chosen to pursue golf as a career.  now, if i would have said matt kuchar would've been greater than roger federer had he chosen golf, then i could see where you are coming from.

Joe Louis played in a professional golf tournament (a PGA Tour event I believe but I could be wrong). He went through Monday qualifying then I think he made the cut as well. What did Matt Kuchar ever do in the tennis world? Did he play on his college team or something?

A good golfer can beat a great on on the right week. To get into the top 50 in any pro sport is another kind of good. Just sayin'.

[Infamous 273]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Joe Louis played in a professional golf tournament (a PGA Tour event I believe but I could be wrong). He went through Monday qualifying then I think he made the cut as well. What did Matt Kuchar ever do in the tennis world? Did he play on his college team or something?

A good golfer can beat a great on on the right week. To get into the top 50 in any pro sport is another kind of good. Just sayin

interesting read: http://www.pgatour.com/2009/r/10/26/kuchars.tennis/index.html

kuchar's dad was a tennis pro i believe, so the genes were in place.  as to whether he could have cracked the top 50 had he chosen tennis first, that is impossible to determine.  i'd say he would have had a better chance than most, however.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Why did he almost pass out from exhaustion?

Brandon

Nice try.

Just so you (and Erik) know, I can thread that needle. But since Erik's so insistent on keeping threads on topic I won't go there.