What would you shoot at Augusta on Sunday?

[Spyder]

After watching all of the coverage yesterday and seeing so many of the best players in the world struggle on these greens, it makes this thread even funnier. Can't believe Dufner shot 80. I thought he would have a good showing this year.  Ugh...

I'm not too sure I understand what you mean by this thread being "even funnier". Literally every event will consist of players who are having bad days. It is virtually impossible to say "Dufner shot an 80 so you idiots who think you'd shoot 85-90 are crazy!". What happens if Dufner comes back out today and shoots a 68? Would that make our 85-90 more conceivable? I just think you're not giving this much thought at all. You're letting the "mystique" and hype of The Masters cloud your judgement. People will have good days and bad days, regardless of the course or conditions.

To give an example, I actually had the opportunity to play Firestone, both North and South, as I live just a few miles from the course and a connection of mine got us out there. I shot the round of my life and shot 81. Tiger shot 77 there in 2010. FYI, The Bridgestone (Firestone) is widely known as "Tiger's Playground". By your logic, I am a dirty wrotten liar and really shot 110 because there's no way I could have been 4 strokes from a score that Tiger put up.

Try to relax a little and be more open-minded. You may not know many good golfers, or honest golfers, but I can assure you that there are plenty of them on here.

[albatross]

I'm not too sure I understand what you mean by this thread being "even funnier". Literally every event will consist of players who are having bad days. It is virtually impossible to say "Dufner shot an 80 so you idiots who think you'd shoot 85-90 are crazy!". What happens if Dufner comes back out today and shoots a 68? Would that make our 85-90 more conceivable? I just think you're not giving this much thought at all. You're letting the "mystique" and hype of The Masters cloud your judgement. People will have good days and bad days, regardless of the course or conditions.

To give an example, I actually had the opportunity to play Firestone, both North and South, as I live just a few miles from the course and a connection of mine got us out there. I shot the round of my life and shot 81. Tiger shot 77 there in 2010. FYI, The Bridgestone (Firestone) is widely known as "Tiger's Playground". By your logic, I am a dirty wrotten liar and really shot 110 because there's no way I could have been 4 strokes from a score that Tiger put up.

Try to relax a little and be more open-minded. You may not know many good golfers, or honest golfers, but I can assure you that there are plenty of them on here.

I don't doubt that there are some really good golfers here and your Dufner quote is your Dufner quote. Not mine.  I never called anyone dishonest or a liar either.  I just questioned if they were taking everything into account.  If you think you can shoot 80 or whatever your first time there, I admire your confidence, but I'm allowed to disagree.  That's a lot different than calling you a liar.

Boy, your response makes it sound like you're the one that needs to relax.  I'm allowed to have my opinion, and my opinion is that I think people in this thread are underestimating the difficulty of these greens. Not just the speed.  I don't believe that anyone here, playing at Augusta for the first time in their life, is going to shoot a score that's comparable or better than a touring Pro.  I'm not right, and neither are you.  That's why it's an opinion.

[Lihu]

I don't doubt that there are some really good golfers here and your Dufner quote is your Dufner quote. Not mine.  I never called anyone dishonest or a liar either.  I just questioned if they were taking everything into account.  If you think you can shoot 80 or whatever your first time there, I admire your confidence, but I'm allowed to disagree.  That's a lot different than calling you a liar.  Boy, your response makes it sound like you're the one that needs to relax.  I'm allowed to have my opinion, and my opinion is that I think people in this thread are underestimating the difficulty of these greens. Not just the speed.  I don't believe that anyone here, playing at Augusta for the first time in their life, is going to shoot a score that's comparable or better than a touring Pro.  I'm not right, and neither are you.  That's why it's an opinion.  ;-)

Augusta is roughly rated 76.2/155. Some of the scratch golfers here play 74/144. How many strokes do you think they would lose playing their normal CR +2? Not an opinion in my book.

[albatross]

Augusta is roughly rated 76.2/155. Some of the scratch golfers here play 74/144.

How many strokes do you think they would lose playing their normal CR +2?

Not an opinion in my book.

Of course it's an opinion. You could never say "for certain" what someone would shoot during 1 round of golf, regardless of the course difficulty or handicap.  Golf is not a game of guarantees, and that makes this an opinion.

[Shindig]

Of course it's an opinion. You could never say "for certain" what someone would shoot during 1 round of golf, regardless of the course difficulty or handicap.  Golf is not a game of guarantees, and that makes this an opinion.

Sure. I think many of the answers are closer to the answer to "if you were to play Augusta several times, without improving in the interim, what would your average score be?"

[Golfingdad]

Augusta is roughly rated 76.2/155. Some of the scratch golfers here play 74/144.

How many strokes do you think they would lose playing their normal CR +2?

Not an opinion in my book.

Lihu, where did you get those numbers?  Because the link that was posted above says 78.1/137.  Not that it matters much - the differential from a round of 90 would be 0.2 points different between the two - but I was just curious.

Sure. I think many of the answers are closer to the answer to "if you were to play Augusta several times, without improving in the interim, what would your average score be?"

Yeah ... I tend to look at courses I've never played through those same type of rose colored glasses as I'm trying to make a game plan on google maps or with their scorecard or yardage book.  So you are probably partially right there.

But one thing about Augusta, and for me I think this is true about Pebble as well, is that it's not the same as the average course I haven't seen or played before.  I've seen it enough to already know a lot of the little nuances that you normally only get from playing a course.

[Lihu]

Of course it's an opinion. You could never say "for certain" what someone would shoot during 1 round of golf, regardless of the course difficulty or handicap.  Golf is not a game of guarantees, and that makes this an opinion.

Yes, I agree that you can't say for certain. However, Golf is a game of statistics. The statistics are pretty well understood with the entire handicap system based upon them. So, there is a foundation to what I am saying based on the statistics of thousands (or more) of golfers with a certain handicap. I used the USGA handicap calculator to correct my original estimate. I am pretty comfortable with my current handicap, because I have observed over many rounds that I do fit that handicap.

You essentially stated that "no golfer" on this forum can score in the 80s or 90s at Augusta. I am stating that there is a good chance that many of the golfers here could score in the 80s or 90s, and I have met at least 8 of them.

You are self admittedly espousing opinion, and I am trying to understand why you think the statistics are irrelevant?

[mvmac]

After watching all of the coverage yesterday and seeing so many of the best players in the world struggle on these greens, it makes this thread even funnier. Can't believe Dufner shot 80. I thought he would have a good showing this year.  Ugh...

And he shot 73 today. Pros have bad rounds but just because he shot 80 doesn't mean a decent golfer won't break 100, even 90.

[wils5150]

I have been to Augusta, as others here have. my take is anyone a 10 or above has no chance breaking 110. a 5-9 might break 100 if they play out of there butt. 4 or below might break 90. This would be playing the same set up as the pros. normal member set up is a different story.

[wils5150]

 

Let me just let you know about the greens there and how they are prepared - I got there early on the Saturday morning and got to watch them prepare the 16th, plus I also shared a coffee with a couple of the greenkeepers later and chatted to them about the set-up. You basically have a guy with a hand cut mower cutting the green's to 1/8th - that's as far as they dare go on the slopes before they chop earth. The blades are sharpened on every mower every day by a maintenance crew of 15 persons - that's just 15 people maintaining equipment for the week, many from Toro, who supply the hardware down there.

 

After the green has been cut, a dude on a sit-on roller rolls the green. And he rolls it for about 20-30 minutes. This is happening on all of the greens from 5.00am through to 8.00. A couple of guys, one from the Masters and another from greenkeeping and another from somewhere else set up a stimp on where the hole is going to be located. They test the stimp every 10 minutes of rolling until it hits about as quick as they feel conditions will let them. If it's dry, they rolll the bejesus out of it. It it's wet it gets a light roll and that is it.

 

Anyone saying they could three putt every one of these greens here is a buffoon. You may two putt a couple, but you will 4 or 5 putt more. These greens are rolled twice a week throughout the year when they are not being dug up. The under soil heating allows them to cook the green dry in 3 hours. Ever wondered why it's always misty around Amen Corner? That's the steam coming from the greens down there - the under soil pipes they have in that corner o 

At my course, our greenkeeper was told to prepare super fast greens for the annual club championship in July. He did so, we reckon he got them to about 11. They were unplayable, because of our slopes and because being a links course, the ball was moving in the wind. We never did it again. It's not fun.

This ^^  You know how people post here about unfair pin placements. Imagine those placement 3 to 4 feet faster and those bad ones you complain about at your course are flat for Augusta

[MS256]

This ^^  You know how people post here about unfair pin placements. Imagine those placement 3 to 4 feet faster and those bad ones you complain about at your course are flat for Augusta

"Unfair pin placements" are the ones on the false fronts where you can't place a ball beside the pin (by hand) without it rolling off of the green. There aren't any unfair pin placements at the Masters.

There's a big difference between tough and unfair.

[wils5150]

"Unfair pin placements" are the ones on the false fronts where you can't place a ball beside the pin (by hand) without it rolling off of the green. There aren't any unfair pin placements at the Masters.

There's a big difference between tough and unfair.

i am well aware of what a unfair pin is. I typed it kind of as a joke because people complain about unfair pins that are not really unfair just fast.

[Lihu]

"Unfair pin placements" are the ones on the false fronts where you can't place a ball beside the pin (by hand) without it rolling off of the green. There aren't any unfair pin placements at the Masters.

There's a big difference between tough and unfair.

This was pretty bad. Finally got it on the 6th chip from that fringe on the bottom. This was a pretty fast green too. Pretty much couldn't even place the ball next to the hole and expect it not to roll off.

[JP1111]

I always struggle to aim away from the pins, there's always a voice at the back of my head saying attack. However if I could suppress my urges and play nice and conservative and attack on the "safer" holes then I would fancy my chances at shooting mid 90s. If I started flag hunting though that could quickly turn into 110+.

[EMTEE106]

Probably in the temple or back of the head after about 110 strokes

[BuckeyeNut]

Augusta is roughly rated 76.2/155. Some of the scratch golfers here play 74/144.

How many strokes do you think they would lose playing their normal CR +2?

Not an opinion in my book.

Tournament playing conditions aren't factored into course and slope ratings.

[Lihu]

Tournament playing conditions aren't factored into course and slope ratings.

Yeah, and the CR was 78.1 not 76.2.

How well would you do? Would you be able to score in the 80's or 90's given that your career does not depend upon a "victory"?

I know that I would score terribly, but I just 3 putted 4 holes today with punched green (super slow) conditions. So, the chart that states a 103 score for me might be a little light, but I think I can do better than 133.

[JP1111]

I think a lot of people see Augusta as some sort of mythical place that no mortal could possibly tame. Yes it's long (although not THAT long), the greens are fast, the drives are narrow and the water hazards treacherous, but if you play properly and apply a bit of course management there's no reason a hacker can't have a decent day there. I've played 480 yard par 4s and made birdie before now. I've played holes with greens smaller than 12 and made birdie before now. And I know that none of the greens are as severe as one hole on a course near me where if you get on the wrong tier and are putting down hill then it's physically impossible to keep it on the green without hitting the hole (my tactic is actually to putt sideways off the green then it goes down a tier and the slope from the bunker pushes it back towards the flag). I am confident that it couldn't show me much I haven't seen before, the difficulty is that you need to concentrate all the time, because almost every hole is hard, not just one or two signatures.