Do You Have Concealed Carry Permit...

[Hammer 4]

So, typically, if people decide to rob a store and see a cop in there, in your experience they don't decide to rob a different store or simply wait until the cop leaves, they just go in there guns blazin?

That seems a bit far-fetched to me.  I'm going to guess that your average thief also would prefer not to die if given the choice.  They are obviously a little more reckless, given that they've chosen a life of crime and all, but I'd still bet that seeing you with your gun would deter them more than it'd encourage them.

But, consider that there's a bunch of no do gooders who are Not exactly sane, and imho would have no qualms about shooting first. Why do criminals  that rob a 7-11 go in and kill the cashier for no good reason, not that it happens all the time, but it has happened, why kill an unarmed person if you have some sort of disguise on...? You risk being charged with murder instead of armed robbery.

[Always an 80]

So, typically, if people decide to rob a store and see a cop in there, in your experience they don't decide to rob a different store or simply wait until the cop leaves, they just go in there guns blazin?

That seems a bit far-fetched to me.  I'm going to guess that your average thief also would prefer not to die if given the choice.  They are obviously a little more reckless, given that they've chosen a life of crime and all, but I'd still bet that seeing you with your gun would deter them more than it'd encourage them.

Being a cop killer is a world of hurt.  Cop on premises, you no rob.   Most thugs don't trust their abilities to accurately fire a weapon compared to a trained officer.  Give them a choice and they won't take the odds of that challenge.  Common sense, Bro.

[Golfingdad]

Common sense, Bro.

Silly me.  My apologies ... I have no idea what I was thinking.  Thanks Bro.

[Shorty]

Okay.  I am a cartoon character.  You have a cat on the site as your identity.    C'mon, man.  Don't you need to wash out your panties or something important?

You think I am Rambo, and I know that you are a wanker.  Tell the queen that you have taken over and the country is now run by sissies.

Sissies? People who aren't paranoid and don't have guns are sissies?

For the record, I am a Republican - which means that I don't support the Queen. I would like to think that someone born in my country could one day be head of state. But arming myself won't make that happen.

[Always an 80]

Silly me.  My apologies ... I have no idea what I was thinking.  Thanks Bro.

Are you being snarky?

Sissies? People who aren't paranoid and don't have guns are sissies?

For the record, I am a Republican - which means that I don't support the Queen. I would like to think that someone born in my country could one day be head of state. But arming myself won't make that happen.

Mr. Shorty...Just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you!!

This country has a violence problem.  It has a well established gun culture.  Our kids play games that involve violence and sometimes shooting other characters.  I know that this is a very bad situation.  I am not totally against your opinions, despite the fact that I seem to be having fun with you.  I only did so because you came on very strong.  I don't think you wear panties.  I do not hate the queen.  I just responded as strongly in my way as you did in your way.  I ask for relaxation and calm between you and myself.  I apologize for being a rogue in my speech earlier.

I do not like the fact that law abiding citizens here in the U.S. feel the need to carry weapons.  But we do need to carry weapons.  Law enforcement cannot protect us.  Illegal weapons outnumber legal ones.  We are pretty well in a state of fear due to illegal firearms.  That means that the "good guys", like myself, who love family and community and country must carry a weapon in order to protect our honorable way of life, and in fact, our physical lives in general.  Any where, any time.  Violence strikes random and without rationality here.

I wish you the best.  Peace to you, Brother.   Pax Vobiscum

[Shorty]

But we do need to carry weapons.  Law enforcement cannot protect us.  Illegal weapons outnumber legal ones.  We are pretty well in a state of fear due to illegal firearms.  That means that the "good guys", like myself, who love family and community and country must carry a weapon in order to protect our honorable way of life, and in fact, our physical lives in general.  Any where, any time.  Violence strikes random and without rationality here.

I wish you the best.  Peace to you, Brother.   Pax Vobiscum

I get what you are saying - and thanks for the cordial message.

Problem is, from my reading, the bad guys out there tend to be youths who are shooting each other up.

Very few people here hate the queen. Most peple like her, but we do resent what she stands for - which takes us back to your revolution. We're looking for a peaceful one.

[saevel25]

This country has a violence problem.  It has a well established gun culture.  Our kids play games that involve violence and sometimes shooting other characters.  I know that this is a very bad situation.  I am not totally against your opinions, despite the fact that I seem to be having fun with you.  I only did so because you came on very strong.  I don't think you wear panties.  I do not hate the queen.  I just responded as strongly in my way as you did in your way.  I ask for relaxation and calm between you and myself.  I apologize for being a rogue in my speech earlier.

I do not like the fact that law abiding citizens here in the U.S. feel the need to carry weapons.  But we do need to carry weapons.  Law enforcement cannot protect us.  Illegal weapons outnumber legal ones.  We are pretty well in a state of fear due to illegal firearms.  That means that the "good guys", like myself, who love family and community and country must carry a weapon in order to protect our honorable way of life, and in fact, our physical lives in general.  Any where, any time.  Violence strikes random and without rationality here.

I wish you the best.  Peace to you, Brother.   Pax Vobiscum

No scientific study has EVER shown that violent games promotes violence. It is a common subject, no matter what parents think it doesn't promote violence.

Actually I am not in a state of fear. I think some people might be. If you live in the Ghetto where gang violence is more prominent, then yes that is a scenario. I think majority of people don't have a fire arm because they are always in fear.

Here's the thing, life is violent. It always has and always will be. It is in animalistic nature to have some sort of violence. Humans just find different ways. When it comes down to it, if I have a family, I will protect them with all that I have. If that means owning a gun, the so be it. If that means I put all my family into some sort of self defense training, so be it.

I think there is nothing wrong with preparing one self for the worst case scenario. I am not saying live in fear, or be paranoid. There is a difference there. I am talking about reality of the world we live in. Do I wish for a society that would have minimal violence were guns wont be needed, yea.

For example, I think a lot has to be done with the inner city culture, and how gangs act as surrogate fathers to young people who have their fathers put into jail. It isn't hard to see that gangs are created due to the fact that young males do not have their father figure in their lives to keep them balanced, so they seek another outlet for that.

Until I am certain that I don't need a weapon, then I will advocate for people to have guns who are not criminals. Even then I do not mind people owning guns for recreational use as well. Innocent people have a right to protect themselves.

[David in FL]

Ok all....... :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic:

[Hammer 4]

I get what you are saying - and thanks for the cordial message.

Problem is, from my reading, the bad guys out there tend to be youths who are shooting each other up.

Very few people here hate the queen. Most peple like her, but we do resent what she stands for - which takes us back to your revolution. We're looking for a peaceful one.

Let me just offer a short explanation with regards to what you read. No, it's not all youths who are doing the shooting, adults do a good percentage of it. And, they don't just shoot each other, and it's not just in the ghetto, they may live in the ghetto, but they often go to nice areas to commit their crimes, as they know where the $$ is. So what you may have read isn't exactly the truth, nor is it the complete story.

Case in point. About 5 yrs ago, there was a lady who came from Beverly Hills to shop at a mall about a mile from my house in Torrance, on the Redondo Beach border , which is a nice area. There was this guy, about 21 if I recall, that when she came out to get in her car, was accosted by this dude who have a large knife, grabbed the lady around the neck, and demanded $$$  from her. A few guys tried to intervene, but were afraid to get cut, well, the dude slashed the ladies throat, and she died, right there in broad daylight.  The perp, was from an area that is well known not to be a good place to live. Granted this didn't involve a gun, but could have.

This goes on all the time, I could site many more, but as not to bore everyone. It is things like this that make a lot of us here in So. Calif. want to be able to defend, and maybe help protect someone that is being threatened, or accosted by a bad guy.

[Always an 80]

The explanation that many of us are searching for is listed under "fubar".  It is so very diverse and complicated.  Biased and opinionated.  Jaded and confused.

I guess we are all on our own in a way...just watching out for Zeke.

[Golfingdad]

Are you being snarky?

Yes I was.  Sorry about that, but your logic was escaping me.  A felon would choose not to shoot a cop who was in the way of his $50 score but not a regular citizen with a visible gun on his hip because "being a cop killer is a world of hurt?"  20 to life is not what you'd consider a world of hurt?  I highly doubt the guy is choosing to avoid robbing the store with the cop in it because of the discrepancy between sentences of murdering a cop versus murdering a regular citizen.

It's the same reason why you make it known that you have an alarm on your car or your house or why you leave your porch light on.  You don't want to trick them into committing the crime so you can stop it, you want to prevent it from happening (or at least happening to you) in the first place.

Now, that said, I know very little about guns and gun laws.  I've shot my brother's little .22 rifle at the range one time about 20 years ago.  Otherwise, I've never even held a real gun, let alone fired or owned one.  And I don't know if I ever will.  I don't feel the need.  So, I don't even know if carrying around pistols unconcealed is permitted anywhere.  Is it?

[boil3rmak3r]

I have not read all the post's here, but...what I believe is this. buying back guns, and making them illegal for Responsible people to own or to get a CCP does 2 things imho. It takes away the possibility of a gun owner to protect his or her life against a deadly threat. The second thing it does is arms the criminals, as they don't play by the Laws. One thing that needs to be addressed is this. If you apply for a CCP, or you apply to buy a gun resulting in a background check, someone needs to look into the the Mental state of these people. Sane folks don not go around shooting people in schools, or publis places, i.e. malls, theaters ect. There needs to be a good way to check on peoples mental health, and this is where I believe all states fail for the most part. Here in cali, L.A. to be more specific, the cops take illegal guns off criminals all the time, or find them when they do search warrants. Most if not all of these criminals are somewhat mentally challenged, and don't think twice about shooting someone in a crowded public place. I still own guns. I shoot for fun. In the past I went to Jeff Coppers combat school, but never shot in competition. I also believe that in some circumstances being allowed to carry a weapon could save lives. A mentally unbalanced person goes into a restaurant, and starts shooting people, If someone had a CCP, they might be able to neutralize the person shooting thus saving innocent lives. Places like NY, Cali and others states are doing an disservice to it's people by Not allowing CCP's. I know here in my state, if someone breaks into my house, I have specific laws that need to be met to use deadly force, which is stupid imho. Mental, and criminal screening to purchase a weapon should paramount.

Great post! I totally agree with you points. I support our rights to own firearms. EVERYBODY should have the right to own guns and protect their homes (and their family in their homes). IMO, there should be no questions asked if an intruder breaks into a home and is shot. I can think of no greater potential for my family to be harmed than hearing an intruder rummaging through my house while we're home. As for purchasing guns and CCP's... I would support more screening. For example, why not require anyone who applies for a CCP to pay $250 (or whatever amount) to attend and pass some sort of gun proficiency class. I want to know that someone who carries publicly is skilled with his/her weapon. Heck, to get my motorcycle endorsement on my license, I had to prove I was proficient in riding it (I guess a motorcycle is more deadly than a gun). I don't think a valid argument could be made that this would be cost prohibitive for lower income folks. Once you decide to carry, I would certainly hope you are also committed to the hundreds of dollars per year you'll spend on ammo at the practice range.

[14ledo81]

Yes I was.  Sorry about that, but your logic was escaping me.  A felon would choose not to shoot a cop who was in the way of his $50 score but not a regular citizen with a visible gun on his hip because "being a cop killer is a world of hurt?"  20 to life is not what you'd consider a world of hurt?  I highly doubt the guy is choosing to avoid robbing the store with the cop in it because of the discrepancy between sentences of murdering a cop versus murdering a regular citizen.

It's the same reason why you make it known that you have an alarm on your car or your house or why you leave your porch light on.  You don't want to trick them into committing the crime so you can stop it, you want to prevent it from happening (or at least happening to you) in the first place.

Now, that said, I know very little about guns and gun laws.  I've shot my brother's little .22 rifle at the range one time about 20 years ago.  Otherwise, I've never even held a real gun, let alone fired or owned one.  And I don't know if I ever will.  I don't feel the need.  So, I don't even know if carrying around pistols unconcealed is permitted anywhere.  Is it?

I am not sure, but I believe it is not permitted many places to carry them unconcealed.  Could make people feel uncomfortable.

[cipher]

Open carry is allowed in a number of states. WI and MN included I believe. Depending on where you are it can be a problem though. You can be accused of disturbing the peace I believe. I don't like open carry for a number of reasons. I don't have the time right now to get into it all and it is a bit off topic. I will just say one thought is that open carry does not stop the crime it just delays it, they will come back another time. Concealed carry always puts the question in their mind, every time.

[Golfingdad]

Open carry is allowed in a number of states. WI and MN included I believe. Depending on where you are it can be a problem though. You can be accused of disturbing the peace I believe. I don't like open carry for a number of reasons. I don't have the time right now to get into it all and it is a bit off topic. I will just say one thought is that open carry does not stop the crime it just delays it, they will come back another time. Concealed carry always puts the question in their mind, every time.

OK, fair point.  So how common is it in Wisconsin that you do see somebody with a gun on them in plain site?  Really rare, I'm guessing?

[cipher]

OK, fair point.  So how common is it in Wisconsin that you do see somebody with a gun on them in plain site?  Really rare, I'm guessing?

Yeah and those are just my thoughts, I got nutin' to back it up. You do see open carry here, but yeah it is pretty rare and tacky IMO.

[Always an 80]

Yes I was.  Sorry about that, but your logic was escaping me.  A felon would choose not to shoot a cop who was in the way of his $50 score but not a regular citizen with a visible gun on his hip because "being a cop killer is a world of hurt?"  20 to life is not what you'd consider a world of hurt?  I highly doubt the guy is choosing to avoid robbing the store with the cop in it because of the discrepancy between sentences of murdering a cop versus murdering a regular citizen.

It's the same reason why you make it known that you have an alarm on your car or your house or why you leave your porch light on.  You don't want to trick them into committing the crime so you can stop it, you want to prevent it from happening (or at least happening to you) in the first place.

Now, that said, I know very little about guns and gun laws.  I've shot my brother's little .22 rifle at the range one time about 20 years ago.  Otherwise, I've never even held a real gun, let alone fired or owned one.  And I don't know if I ever will.  I don't feel the need.  So, I don't even know if carrying around pistols unconcealed is permitted anywhere.  Is it?

A couple of guys have mentioned the open carry laws, I see.  Indiana is an open or concealed state. It is up to the permit holder.  Reciprocal states with Indiana thus honor our laws and we can then open or conceal in the state we visit regardless of the laws of that state for that states permit holders.  That is, if a state I visit has laws for their citizens, those citizens must follow the state law, but I can follow Indiana law when in that state.  Of course I would not take that liberty even though I could legally have more rights than the citizens of that state.

In general, I do not carry open even tho I am allowed.  It tends to make people nervous.  We have a saying that you can wear your gun into the barn, but there is really no good reason to scare the horses.  Open carry at the grocery store just tends to needlessly "scare the horses".

As mentioned as well in some posts, some states will not let you conceal.  Some states will not let you open carry.  And yes, I agree that mandatory training is a good idea for permit applicants.

Indiana is a "will issue" state.  If you are not a felon or mentally deficient as defined by the court, you will get a permit upon application.  That is, you will not be denied.  I have a lifetime permit which can be revoked upon my committing a felony or being found mentally deficient.  Fortunately, golf scores do not figure into one's fitness for carrying a hand gun here.

[Always an 80]

Yeah and those are just my thoughts, I got nutin' to back it up. You do see open carry here, but yeah it is pretty rare and tacky IMO.

I agree that in some situations the word "tacky" is most appropriate.